To Wait, Or Not To Wait (nVidia 600 Series Conundrum)

[Cavus]

Hey folks,
Here is my conundrum. The nVidia 600 series is coming out (hopefully) in (mid?) 2012. I am currently in the process of building a totally new rig from scratch. For the video card, in your guy's opinions, would it be smarter to buy a lower end card such as a 450 or 460 and save/wait for the 600 series OR should I just go with the current plan and buy a 560 Ti and then possibly in the future get a 600 series (probably 6 months to 2 years after it is released).

What do you guys think? Is the first option the better one because the 600 series is entirely new tech or should I just go with the 560 Ti because it is "tried and true" (the 600 series may have defects or other compatability/drive flaws)? Thanks

EDIT: Also, a question about SSDs:

I heard that OCZ drives are quite shitty (especially the agility series; lots of bugs/flaws). Would I be better off going with a Corsair Series 2 60 gb or a OCZ Agility 2 (60gb). Was originally gonna go with this 64gb Kingston Drive but after they slashed the instant savings (essentially making it $25 more expensive) I started to question if 4 extra gigs of SSD storage was worth $25.
Thanks again!

[MrSniffles]

I'd go ahead with a 560 IMO, the 600 series with inevitably have flaws to be worked out and I honestly can't see the technology it will have being fully utilized by games for a while. I'm building a pc with a 580 and it should last quite a while. Just my two cents.

[Cavus]

Thanks for the info. Not to semi-necro, I have been otherwise occupied. Does anyone else have any insight agreeing or disagreeing with MrSniffles?

[Simonzi]

Buy the most expensive card you can get at the moment. Waiting is a never ending cycle, there is always something new on the horizon.

Edit: As far as SSD's go, OCZ drives are fine, and some of the most popular. As far as the 60/64GB, both are going to give you the same amount of space. A drive advertised as 64gb will only give you ~60gb available to use. OCZ just puts it like it is up front, and just calls it a 60gb drive.

[Cavus]

Buy the most expensive card you can get at the moment. Waiting is a never ending cycle, there is always something new on the horizon.

Edit: As far as SSD's go, OCZ drives are fine, and some of the most popular. As far as the 60/64GB, both are going to give you the same amount of space. A drive advertised as 64gb will only give you ~60gb available to use. OCZ just puts it like it is up front, and just calls it a 60gb drive.

So both the Corsair and the OCZ are 64 gigs but only 60 gigs of usable space? And then I was reading somewhere that the Agility line (or maybe it was Vertex, I don't exactly remember) had a large amount of RMAs/bad drives. Am I getting the drives mixed up or is my memory correct.
Also, is this model of Corsair any good? Corsair has a great reputation for good customer support and solid products and I'm just checking to make sure this holds true for this drive. How is OCZ's customer support vs. Corsair's?
Lastly, is SATA 2 any different or worse performance wise than a SATA 3 drive. How much of a boost in speed am I looking at if I go with a SATA 3 drive. Is it even worth the extra cash?

Thanks

[haxartus]

There is a point in waiting if the product is being released in the next 1-2 months, not the next year. The difference in the new generation will most likely be that the mid-range cards will perform equally as the current high end cards while using less power. The new high end cards will be faster than the old high end cards while using similar power. That's it.

[Skelly]

Just to point out.. I read an article the other day (new) which said Kepler CHIPS were still on track to start going out in late 2011, so we should be seeing the first Kepler CARDS in early 2012 (I hope).

Personally, I'd go with a 560 Ti and then upgrade next gen if it appears worth it. You can always sell the 560 for a few bucks.

[sizzlinsauce]

I get 2 bonuses b4 2012... hurray new cards even if i just bought 3 6950's last month lolz

[Cavus]

There is a point in waiting if the product is being released in the next 1-2 months, not the next year. The difference in the new generation will most likely be that the mid-range cards will perform equally as the current high end cards while using less power. The new high end cards will be faster than the old high end cards while using similar power. That's it.

First off, congrats on 2,800 posts and thanks for the reply.

Secondly, I heard in another thread that this new 600 generation will have entirely new architecture whereas the 500 series is the 400 architecture tinkered with to make it use less power while the 600 series will be completely new. Am I totally incorrect with this information or does the fact that it's new architecture justify waiting?

[Cavus]

I get 2 bonuses b4 2012... hurray new cards even if i just bought 3 6950's last month lolz

Aww sweet tri-crossfire (or SLI) has always been a dream of mine. Just a question though, do you just enjoy ATI graphics cards or did you buy them for their value/bitcoin mining? I don't want to start a nVidia vs ATI flamewar I am just curious as to why individuals buy each brand.

[Cyanotical]

a bit of advice, if you are gonna wait for the gtx600 seires, buy a 580 now, and wait till febuary or march of 2012, by then the high end 600 will be out, the initail ones we'll see at the end of this year won't be the best in the series

[Cavus]

Thanks so much Synthaxx for the awesome reply. I'm curious however, is the hundred dollar price jump from the 560 Ti to the 570 (or the 200 dollar jump for 560 Ti -> 580) worth it? Is spending an extra $100 (or $200) justified by the superior performance of the cards compared to the 560 Ti? I'm interested (but not set in stone) in buying from MSI because I have been educated that the Twin Frozr system offers superior cooling allowing for awesome over clocking.

Also, @Synthaxx, besides just having more space in general, is there any reason to get more than 60 gigs for an SSD. Originally I was not planning on getting one, but after some funds shifted around I had enough to get one. I have enough cash to buy a larger one I'm just not sure if I will actually use it given that I primarily only intend to install Windows on it (my preference in games changes so frequently I would be constantly deleting/reinstalling my game of the month onto the SSD).

EDIT: Also is the price increase worth going SATA 3 over SATA 2? Thinking of going with this but I'm not sure if SATA 3 vs SATA 2 is worth the extra 30ish bucks.

[Skelly]

a bit of advice, if you are gonna wait for the gtx600 seires, buy a 580 now, and wait till febuary or march of 2012, by then the high end 600 will be out, the initail ones we'll see at the end of this year won't be the best in the series

For both the 400 and 500 series, Nvidia has released the two best (single gpu) cards first.

[haxartus]

First off, congrats on 2,800 posts and thanks for the reply.

Secondly, I heard in another thread that this new 600 generation will have entirely new architecture whereas the 500 series is the 400 architecture tinkered with to make it use less power while the 600 series will be completely new. Am I totally incorrect with this information or does the fact that it's new architecture justify waiting?

Even if the architecture is really good, the price will be scaled equally at the beginning. Don't expect to get 100% more performance for the same price.
And if you get a GTX 580, you can always sell it later and buy a Kepler GPU.

[Cyanotical]

For both the 400 and 500 series, Nvidia has released the two best (single gpu) cards first.

i read that instead of delaying the release of kepler, they wont be releasing the best ones first, but that may change, everything is guesswork till we get some official announcements

[Skelly]

i read that instead of delaying the release of kepler, they wont be releasing the best ones first, but that may change, everything is guesswork till we get some official announcements

Ahh okay. Good to know

[Cavus]

After doing some research I think I'm going to stick with the 560 Ti and wait for the Maxwell cards. Thanks for all the help folks and if anyone could answer my questions in post #14 that would be awesome! Thanks!

[Xuvial]

Thanks so much Synthaxx for the awesome reply. I'm curious however, is the hundred dollar price jump from the 560 Ti to the 570 (or the 200 dollar jump for 560 Ti -> 580) worth it? Is spending an extra $100 (or $200) justified by the superior performance of the cards compared to the 560 Ti? I'm interested (but not set in stone) in buying from MSI because I have been educated that the Twin Frozr system offers superior cooling allowing for awesome over clocking.

Think of the vertical axis being price and horizontal axis being performance. The more performance you want, the less bang-for-the-buck you'll get. GTX560 is about the "tipping point" as far as nVidia goes, the ideal card for gamers on a budget who aren't wanting to push max settings at high resolutions.
Frankly not enough is known about the 28mm Kepler solutions coming up, just the usual stuff about drastically better performance-per-watt, MOAR TRANSISTORS (can't say no to transistors!), higher gflops, etc etc. The GTX500 series are merely the same 40nm GTX400 chips with added fine-tuning, better pipelines, better PCB's and of course WAY better cooling - but in the end it's the same chip - I wouldn't be surprised if a GTX600's are atleast 50% faster than their GTX500 counterparts since it's a proper whole new generation of 28nm chips. But the waiting game still isn't worth playing here, buy the single best card you can afford.

Also, @Synthaxx, besides just having more space in general, is there any reason to get more than 60 gigs for an SSD. Originally I was not planning on getting one, but after some funds shifted around I had enough to get one. I have enough cash to buy a larger one I'm just not sure if I will actually use it given that I primarily only intend to install Windows on it (my preference in games changes so frequently I would be constantly deleting/reinstalling my game of the month onto the SSD).

It depends on how large the games are...I've had my 90gb Vertex 2 for about 3 months and Win7+SP+basic programs (MS Office, Adobe stuff, etc) has pushed it to about ~30gb total. So you can fit OS+Programs+WoW on a 64gb SSD, however I don't recommend it because it may get tight. If you play smaller games like FPS (e.g. Mass Effect, Black Ops, Crysis/2/etc) which don't tend to take more than 6-10gb each then you could happily fit OS+Programs+2 games with room to spare. The 60-100gb region is where SSD's give the best bang for your buck, I find the 120gb-240gb is way too excessive...likely only for those running MASSIVE programs like Aftereffects Suite / high-speed video editing while using their SSD as storage.

EDIT: Also is the price increase worth going SATA 3 over SATA 2? Thinking of going with this but I'm not sure if SATA 3 vs SATA 2 is worth the extra 30ish bucks.

Depends on the SSD, it'll tell you whether or not to use Sata3. The one you linked (Force3) is a Sata3 SSD, i.e. plugging it into a Sata2 port will bottleneck it's speeds. Vertex 2 series, Crucial RealSSD C300 series, Force2, etc are SSDs that will happily run on Sata2 without reaching the port's bandwidth cap. Vertex3, RealSSD C400, Force3, etc should be plugged into a Sata3 port.

[Cavus]

Depends on the SSD, it'll tell you whether or not to use Sata3. The one you linked (Force3) is a Sata3 SSD, i.e. plugging it into a Sata2 port will bottleneck it's speeds. Vertex 2 series, Crucial RealSSD C300 series, Force2, etc are SSDs that will happily run on Sata2 without reaching the port's bandwidth cap. Vertex3, RealSSD C400, Force3, etc should be plugged into a Sata3 port.

Just out of curiosity, what happens if you plugged a SATA 2 device into a SATA 3 port? Is the 'SATA 2' on the drive just a minimum requirement? Will plugging a SATA 2 device into a SATA 3 port make faster?

EDIT: My google skills are strong Only need help with the above.

[Xuvial]

Just out of curiosity, what happens if you plugged a SATA 2 device into a SATA 3 port? Is the 'SATA 2' on the drive just a minimum requirement? Will plugging a SATA 2 device into a SATA 3 port make faster?

EDIT: My google skills are strong Only need help with the above.

Nope, plugging a Sata2-rated device into a Sata3 port won't make it run any faster.
E.g. a Vertex 2 will continue to read+write at 270mb/s max even if you plug it into a Sata3 port....by speeding up the port you still can't make the actual device run faster :P