So Doomguards

[Count Zero]

idk, maybe im wrong, but why use Doomguard on BL? Doomguard does not benefit from buffs that increase haste by a %, nor does Doomguard gain BL if it is out when it is used. Doomguard only benefits from it's summoners direct combat rating and any buffs that increases it by a actual amount, like DMC: Volcano. With that said, it would be most beneficial to use Doomguard in the beginning of the fight because this is more than likely the only time in a fight where you will have all your procs/CDs up at the same time (Power Torrent, trinkets, pre-pot, etc) unless you are doing a fight with a fight where there is a debuff placed on the boss that increases damage taken like Alysrazor or a buff that increases you and your pets damage like Heroic Staghelm.

If you're just there to get the highest amount of dps at all costs, or if there is no burn phase, then, yeah, blow your guardian when all your procs are up. But for encounters with a burn phase, most folks use it at the same time BL gets popped because that's when the dps really matters.

[Slavemaker]

I always use my doomguard at the start of a fight, and most the time it is back off of CD for the next fight. But I'd like to see a shorter Cd on it, maybe just for destro spec tho, like a 5min CD for destro, that would give destro the buff it needs to be back on the top of the metters xD

How does it make sense to make a summoned demon a shorter cooldown for DESTRUCTION instead of DEMONOLOGY? and don't give me that crap about the "increased duration talent".

However as it is the cooldown is fine especially due to the fact that the Doomguard is an extremely powerful cooldown.

[Morath]

OR you need to learn your class mechanics, Doomguard doesn't even scale with BL so the best time to use it is when all your trinkets/power torrent proc at the same time.

Yep and it is in start of combat, I play Demo mostly of time, and that 10 minute CD is really problem.

If we wipe on some progress, I can use Doomguard every 3-4 pulls. My Doomguard do 17+-k DPS in his one minute. It is ALOT, Demo can be in top in single target, but only with Doomguard poped in right time.

[Deleted]

Or you need to learn some math. BL pops after 6 minutes, 2 minutes to walk in get buffed and start again. that leaves me with another 2 minutes on the CD, which will be ready for the next BL.

The only way it wont be ready is if I pop it right on start and wipe at 90%.

Like eg. Staghelm where we bloodlust 2 sec after the pull. I think a bloodlust like mechanic would be best, just reset the cooldown when the fight ends and set a 10 min exhaustion debuff

[Sanoku]

I really don't understand all these replies that say "use it when bloodlust is popped". You pop it when you have all your int procs / chalice active. Bloodlust/Heroism does not affect the doomguard so I do not see why it matters. If you want the most damage out of it you use it with procs.

[Velerios]

The cooldown of the Doomguard should be reduced to 5 minutes. If Blizzard only want that a warlock can only use it one time in a fight, they should add an debuff like they added for heroism.

The same should be added to every major cooldown: reduce the cooldown but add an debuff.

[toshax]

No other class has a such a important cooldown as Demonlogy warlock has that has a 10min CD. Excluding hero/lust/timewarp wich has a mechanic to help exacly with this probleam. Elemental shamans had it but was reliaved with the 2set tier12.

Because of arenas all spells that have a base cd(aka before talents) of 10mins or more cant be used.

Suloctions could be

They can just tie it to a talent so it its lower than 10min while keeping the 10min base CD excluding it to arenas. But that require a client side Patch. Best talent would be Dark Arts so all specs could get it and all PVE specs already use that talent.

Make a exaustion/sated like system for Doomguard/Infernal Summons

Just balance it, so its a better CD for the other 2 specs while less powerfull for demon but more frequently up. My trown away idea base Doomguard for aff/destro 5mins Cd lasting around 45sec making ~5% of the overall damage over a 5mins fight. A deep demon tree talent that makes it 2mins CD lasting arround 45sec making overall ~10% of a demon warlock damage over a 5mins fight. Ofc this would had to come with further rebalance of specs so isnt a straight buff more of a QOL fix.

My favorite idea ofc its the 3rd, Iam sure next content patch will have a fix for it, the Doomguard CD for demo its a unsustainable condition right now

These are really solid suggestions to a problem that desperately needs to be fixed. It's so aggravating to actually have my DG up and have to deal with stupid bullshit like accidental pulls and RNG that result in really crappy attempts.

Additionally, there are several heroic encounters that require literally everyone to pull their absolute maximum and this disparity in demo dps can make non DG-attempts much more difficult on dps requirements.

[Sesethi]

if the cd was 5 mins demo locks would have the possibility of getting 2 doomguards through fights giving them the chance of achieveing around 2kk damage with the doomguard alone. Adding a debuff like sated to the warlock would probably cause the warlock to kill himself during the fight do he could get the second doomguard. Imo, it's fine as it is.

[Morath]

if the cd was 5 mins demo locks would have the possibility of getting 2 doomguards through fights giving them the chance of achieveing around 2kk damage with the doomguard alone. Adding a debuff like sated to the warlock would probably cause the warlock to kill himself during the fight do he could get the second doomguard. Imo, it's fine as it is.

ok, and what about 5 minutes CD and one Doomguard per combat? Like potions. Like it is now, it is totally stupid, it is too much important part of our damage to be used 1/3 pulls.

[Jessicka]

I don't have any problems with my doomguard, infernal or the cool down.

I use it on BL in demo, affi and destro.

stop qqing.

You're doing it wrong.

[shapow]

This thread is mostly about making the CD comparable to BL, but people seem to shoot that down with "Oh they'll die and just pop it again".

How often have you seen someone purposely die to get lusted again? Yes, there are situations where you lust for BR'd people a second time, but that's not game breaking, being exploited, etc. We pop it at the start because we have several ICD's that may be impossible to all line up again at a certain point in the fight.

And in the end, Time dead = Time not spent casting. We then have to get buffs, soul burn out a new demon, DI again, Fel armor again, Soul link again. Thats 4 globals on our part, usually around 3-4 combined from others.

Please stop using that as a counter to this idea.

If your raid is that far ahead enough on a fight where you can use BR's for like, maybe possibly slight dps gains, the dps doesn't matter

[Angelic]

If the Doomguard is doing one million damage per cast and they make it like heroism (5 min cooldown + debuff) you will see Demonology warlocks killing themselves then resurrect via Soulstone so they can pop another 800-1 million damage Doomguard.

The Doomguard doing 1 million damage in a single global cooldown is a very bad design.

Demonology requires to be reworked in such a way that your main abilities do more damage and your Doomguard does less. I believe everyone will welcome such a change.

[Jessicka]

They fix the Mastery tripple dipping and Demonic Pact double dipping issues, this argument goes away just as it didn't exist before it was spotted and calculated on EJ.

Then we can go back to QQing about how Demo is underpowered and needs Decimation buffing.

[kushlol]

If the Doomguard is doing one million damage per cast and they make it like heroism (5 min cooldown + debuff) you will see Demonology warlocks killing themselves then resurrect via Soulstone so they can pop another 800-1 million damage Doomguard.

The Doomguard doing 1 million damage in a single global cooldown is a very bad design.

Demonology requires to be reworked in such a way that your main abilities do more damage and your Doomguard does less. I believe everyone will welcome such a change.

I'm totally content with pressing a single button and getting almost 2 million damage at my gear lvl....1million dmg DG's are kinda on the low end and would have to be with just casting w/o procs or just crap gear.

---------- Post added 2011-08-15 at 12:22 PM ----------

They fix the Mastery tripple dipping and Demonic Pact double dipping issues, this argument goes away just as it didn't exist before it was spotted and calculated on EJ.

Then we can go back to QQing about how Demo is underpowered and needs Decimation buffing.

It triple dips on mastery last time I checked.


Edit:seems you're right

[Greyarea]

they do that Jessicka and Demo's DPS will tank and go down the toilet, somewhere near where Sub rogues are atm and where we where in wrath: Low DPS but needed for teh buff we gave.

OT:
Don't get me wrong, I love how I can hit 2 buttons and see my pimped out doomguard do 1.2-1.4 mill damage for practically zero effort. However if we wipe like on a progression fight, which happens quite often due to mistakes or learning the encounter, you will only have your DG up once every 2 or 3 pulls (depending on how fast your guild is at recoveries). This is a bad thing due to how reliant our competitive DPS is on the doomguard.


One thing people seem to miss with all these 'just make it like BL, 5 min CD and 10 min debuff' is this: If they do that, they would also of fixed the triple mastery dipping and double Pact dipping issue. You know what this would do? Make the above proposed change unneeded, and sadly our DPS to plumet unless they fixed other parts of demo's spec, like decimation being buffed somehow, fel guard being made the best pet again, soul fire hitting for more than a wet noodle, the requirement to swap pets for the felguards DS then back to hunter, amongst other things I can't think of right now.

I'm not bitching or anything, I just don't want to see a spec I love and have to play (no ele shammy) go from being real good, to being down the shitter compared to destro/aff like Wrath.

[Hellfury]

The best would be to just rebalance doomguard making it a lower CD, less overall damage and increase either the warlock pet damge or its own spells.

The satted/exaustion like debuff can very well lead to suicide>soulstone for a new Doomguard, so I guess not the best idea.

Even thou Iam aff I like to push all I can and even if Doomguard for aff is only 2-3% of my overall damge I get pissed when I cant pop it

[Calabera]

I always use my doomguard at the start of a fight, and most the time it is back off of CD for the next fight. But I'd like to see a shorter Cd on it, maybe just for destro spec tho, like a 5min CD for destro, that would give destro the buff it needs to be back on the top of the metters xD

It would make more sense for this Demon to have a shorter CD for Demonology warlocks.

Anyways, destruction is the weakest spec at the moment and it is clunky as hell... The spec alone needs a lot of work to be done other than just a shorter CD. Also when I say a lot I meant it needs to be completely remade.

[Brauhm]

I have never seen more QQing in a single thread.

Okay, you guys want change? This is what needs to happen.

The doomguard needs to not have a CD and have a buff that applies to you, similar to BL, people QQing about it being a 1 click doing a million damage, go check out fire elemental totems. Its 1 click 2-3 million damage on some fights.

Demonology is fine talent wise the way it is, right now it scales very well with stats but not too well as to make it op. You people cry about how it does too much damage, but not all of us can pop avenging wrath and spam hammer on a 6 second cd.

Basically, Demo only does max damage with the doomguard up. We NEED the doomguard for every progression pull and since some of us 10 mans don't have an ele shaman, we're forced to go demo simply because of the SP buff. (this was also true last tier and will be for future tears)

End discussion: Doomguard NEEDS to be up for every pull. Find a way to make it happen.

[Hellfury]

I will go further and say that Doomguard should be up for every boss fight in a 5man aswell, 2-3mins CD with balanced damage would be the best

[Count Zero]

I will go further and say that Doomguard should be up for every boss fight in a 5man aswell, 2-3mins CD with balanced damage would be the best

Now this I don't agree with. Not sure if you're being sarcastic, however.

I just think warlock guardians should be given the Bloodlust/Heroism treatment. 5 minute cd, 10 minute debuff ... maybe that persists through dying itself, but is cleared in ghost form, to prevent brez abuse.