[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[RoninaThorstone]

See post 22842

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post26996902

Oh, trust me. I am well aware and very much ready to remove "leveling" from my gaming experience.

However, if people really need that skinner-box of "I am progressing! (while my enemies progress along side me resulting in a net change of NOTHING)", there are still options which would facilitate multimodal end game (and early / mid game)

[zito]

Except TSW had some seriously awesome themes and quests.

I know. The quests were great. That was it's niche. But the quests didn't change it from still being a standard themepark MMO. It was WoW/Everquest with better questing and invisible numbers to keep it simple.

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Oh, trust me. I am well aware and very much ready to remove "leveling" from my gaming experience.

However, if people really need that skinner-box of "I am progressing! (while my enemies progress along side me resulting in a net change of NOTHING)", there are still options which would facilitate multimodal end game (and early / mid game)

I'm hoping everquest next doesn't have an endless gear progression with segregated zones with said gear progression.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I know. The quests were great. That was it's niche. But the quests didn't change it from still being a standard themepark MMO. It was WoW/Everquest with better questing and invisible numbers to keep it simple.

Would've been better as a straight up third person shooter.

I really didn't understand why they went with the typical tab system and even then it still didn't feel that good comparatively to other MMOs of the same mindset.

[Newbryn]

Seems a lot of people don't quite get the concept of no levels in an mmo. My version would be something akin to path of exile, but obviously witjhout the levels, the way it would work you would essentially travel the world exploring and all while finding skill points located in the world, similar to gw2 skill challenges some would be hidden and you would simply use these points to build your character without ever doing generic tasks to see a bar fill, which brings me back to path of exile I want it to be possible for me to mess up my character the risk of failure would add much replayability.

[RoninaThorstone]

I'm hoping everquest next doesn't have an endless gear progression with segregated zones with said gear progression.

From what I understand, gear isn't going to be direct increases in power but rather things like,
"you can now use teleport"
or
"Your melee attacks gain knock back"

Could have just been a fever dream, could also change before the game even makes it into alpha.

The fact that they are considering having HC servers suggests, to me, that they aren't going for endless progression but working more off leagues ideas of incomparables.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I know. The quests were great. That was it's niche. But the quests didn't change it from still being a standard themepark MMO. It was WoW/Everquest with better questing and invisible numbers to keep it simple.

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I'm hoping everquest next doesn't have an endless gear progression with segregated zones with said gear progression.

I can almost guarantee you it will.

That's too expected and desired of MMOs so I would never count it out.

However, developers should allow for more paths and specializations that aren't involved in the "treadmill". Like me, I personally like building and creating things. I'd rather help my fellow players by building fortifications, towns, etc for them to rest up and utilize.

Being tied to the exact same system as every other player to me does not make a role-playing game.

[zito]

I really didn't understand why they went with the typical tab system and even then it still didn't feel that good comparatively to other MMOs of the same mindset

It wasn't originally tab target. It was action. But they decided to remove that and design the game around tab target because of time. They brought the reticule back eventually but the game was already designed around tab target so the action part the reticule brings wasn't there. It was still tab target combat.

That is exactly what W* did. They built the game around tab target before action which created some pseudo action combat thing that needs addons to be decent.

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The fact that they are considering having HC servers suggests, to me, that they aren't going for endless progression but working more off leagues ideas of incomparables.

Wait hardcore servers? fuck I've been out of the loop. I want.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Seems a lot of people don't quite get the concept of no levels in an mmo. My version would be something akin to path of exile, but obviously witjhout the levels, the way it would work you would essentially travel the world exploring and all while finding skill points located in the world, similar to gw2 skill challenges some would be hidden and you would simply use these points to build your character without ever doing generic tasks to see a bar fill, which brings me back to path of exile I want it to be possible for me to mess up my character the risk of failure would add much replayability.

Or you could simply do the activities you enjoy, gain points towards said activities, and select perks/abilities pertaining to them further specializing yourself via that time and dedication.

Basically your "toon" is a clean slate that evolves with your actions rather than on a predetermined path.

[RoninaThorstone]

Seems a lot of people don't quite get the concept of no levels in an mmo. My version would be something akin to path of exile, but obviously witjhout the levels, the way it would work you would essentially travel the world exploring and all while finding skill points located in the world, similar to gw2 skill challenges some would be hidden and you would simply use these points to build your character without ever doing generic tasks to see a bar fill, which brings me back to path of exile I want it to be possible for me to mess up my character the risk of failure would add much replayability.

I like EQN's idea of unlocking more classes (and thus skills and abilities) which can be swapped into your LAS (with the exception of weapon skills).
It's a bit like what you are describing but with no vertical power growth like those pesky PoE +20% hp orbs.

[Newbryn]

I like EQN's idea of unlocking more classes (and thus skills and abilities) which can be swapped into your LAS (with the exception of weapon skills).
It's a bit like what you are describing but with no vertical power growth like those pesky PoE +20% hp orbs.

EQN does seem like what I want in an mmo, with that said however I personally don't mind a vertical power growth I just want an mmo where I have complete control over how I build my char, which is why I mention POE so much since I consider that the pinnacle of char progression.MMOs mostly tend to prefer gear progression over char progression, I personally prefer char progression.

[cuafpr]

quick question for those higher level... i was playing the beta.. and it seems like each zone is its own map with only 1 or 2 ways to he next zone?? not open like RIFT or WoW where it feels more like a seamless world vs one map to the next. Does this change after the starting zone? I had the same issue with FF a realm reborn also. totally killed the game for me.

[CrossNgen]

quick question for those higher level... i was playing the beta.. and it seems like each zone is its own map with only 1 or 2 ways to he next zone?? not open like RIFT or WoW where it feels more like a seamless world vs one map to the next. Does this change after the starting zone? I had the same issue with FF a realm reborn also. totally killed the game for me.

Only the arkship and the zone after that are instanced, the rest are seamless open world except for Farside, which is on the moon.

[Deleted]

... Wildstar isn't that. It's not meant to just please you and cater to your every whim and complaint. It's in many ways designed to challenge you and piss you off.

That includes leveling. If they were to streamline it, give it story, it'd be only a fraction of the length and being at max level wouldn't mean squat. They don't want that. Not only is it grindy for the sake of slowing you down and making you work for your butter but the monsters after Lvl. 20 get downright cruel.

Very well said. It's easy to forget that Wildstar is designed to be difficult. And not only in a way of surviving a group of enemies in a dungeon or outside. The game will sometimes test your patience.

Hell, it took me half a year to level up to 60 in Original WoW. How much satisfaction came with hitting level 60. It felt like a significant achievement. Sure it won't be just like that in Wildstar, but I think they do try to recreate that experience. I don't mind that, it's an old-forgotten experience.

And I realise that the game or questing in it can be made difficult in some other way, but I do want to experience slow and may be tedious leveling for the sake of that feeling of accomplishment when you hit max level. I don't remember an MMO that would give me that feeling after I TBC expansion, where it took me a month and half to get from 60 to 70. Story-driven MMORPGs never give you that feeling when you reach max level, you only feel like the story arc is over.

[Disciples]

Two problems.

1. Gf and I were in this cave questing, killing a group of mobs when someone else ran through and pulled more mobs on top of us and we died. I chose to respawn and was killed immediately since it just respawns you where you died and I pulled what just killed me. In ESO you have a few seconds to find safety before you're fully rezzed. That is a problem.

2. So I had to rez elsewhere and we couldn't get back into the cave. We spent 30 mins running around trying to get back to where we were but the machine we used to enter the cave no longer worked since we had passed that point in the quest chain. So basically if you die on this quest you're screwed. That is a problem.

Those two issues makes me feel like I'm playing an alpha of an independent game. I'm quitting the beta, I'm already getting annoyed and bored of these quests and it hasn't even launched yet.

[Collected]

Hmm that's odd I thought there was a delay before res for the very reason you've just mentioned. Sure I saw it in game. Maybe it's gone? Also could you not abandon the quest and start over? I had to do that with a quest that involved following something in game. It all happened too quickly and I lost track of it but once I abandoned and picked the quest up again I quickly completed it.

It would be a shame to quit over two minor issues. I know they annoyed you but stuff like that happens in every MMO.

[Disciples]

Jesus, 5 pages of argument spam. I was wondering why the thread had a ton of pages since earlier.

[zed zebes]

Is a trudging questing experience difficult or is just unappealing?

[Vespian]

Very well said. It's easy to forget that Wildstar is designed to be difficult. And not only in a way of surviving a group of enemies in a dungeon or outside. The game will sometimes test your patience.

Hell, it took me half a year to level up to 60 in Original WoW. How much satisfaction came with hitting level 60. It felt like a significant achievement. Sure it won't be just like that in Wildstar, but I think they do try to recreate that experience. I don't mind that, it's an old-forgotten experience.

And I realise that the game or questing in it can be made difficult in some other way, but I do want to experience slow and may be tedious leveling for the sake of that feeling of accomplishment when you hit max level. I don't remember an MMO that would give me that feeling after I TBC expansion, where it took me a month and half to get from 60 to 70. Story-driven MMORPGs never give you that feeling when you reach max level, you only feel like the story arc is over.

Except that this:

That includes leveling. If they were to streamline it, give it story, it'd be only a fraction of the length

Makes no sense whatsoever.

"We had to make it more grindy so we didn't add an overarching story"..? The problem isn't that every single quest should have a storyline, but by lvl 15 I still don't know what I'm fighting for.

Recently saw this youtube thing about superhero movies, which pointed out that a superhero without motivation, makes for a less appealing movie, because you really don't know why any person without the motivation to be one, would be a superhero. And if we look at all the existing superhero movies, most of them have some pretty compelling motivation.

(Obviously these motivations have been derived from the comics).

X-Men 1; Magneto as a child in a nazi camp (can't remember which one), which leads him to hate others that persecute people for what they are.
Batman; Parents get shot.
Iron Man: Realizes he's been fueling terrorism, after becoming a victim of his own weaponry.

etc.

This thing, is lacking in most MMO's. I don't know what I'm fighting for, I don't know who I'm fighting against and I don't know why I'm fighting against them, except for; "They're not us, so we kill 'm". Oh yeah, they also kill trees.

[Vespian]

You should know plenty about 'why you're fighting' if you read the quest dialogue. The moment you make an exile you have it explained to you that you're a bunch of refugees without a planet to live on, so you're hoping to settle on this one... until the Dominion tries to intercept you and stop you. Then you get a bunch of questlines where the Dominion is basically just doing everything evil against the planet and your people, from killing wildlife and trees to nearly destroying the planet while they're trying to exploit it's resources.

As a dominion... well, you're there to uncover all the secret technology and just to be evil and do everything that the Dominion orders you to do. As a Dominion character you're treated more like a cog in the big evil imperial machine. It's perhaps somewhat comparable towards starting out as a Stormtrooper in the Empire and slowly working your way up to become a notable Sith Lord.


All that said though, you must understand that this desire for story is just a personal and individual need you might have. I myself am perfectly fine with simply getting 'go kill 15 boars' quests without being told why, as long as the combat is fun.

That's not a problem. I have no problem with that fact. I'm quite used to people not reading 360 books a year. I'm also quite used to stories being extremely subpar. Harry Potter; extremely childishly written, especially the first 2 or 3 books. The world loves it. Thank god the movies were slightly better.

"We're stranded boohoo, let's shoot at people". If you can't see it's flimsy at best, than all the better, you're obviously the target audience. "Oh noes, the dominion are being evil for ..absolutely no reason.. but that means they're our mortal enemies.".

Say what you will about ESO, but their quests are properly done. Even the most lame quest has some purpose.

[cuafpr]

Only the arkship and the zone after that are instanced, the rest are seamless open world except for Farside, which is on the moon.

thank you i'm going to try spend some more time this week then.. it was an instant turn off to see the map look like it was bunch of mini-zones and not an open world... RIFT, ESO and WoW got that right.. and i just can't get into an mmo with out that it seems. thanks