[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[zito]

I am with you Doozerjun on the down leveling, I really like that system. Having no levels at all would just make people hit the problem we get at max level right from the get go. The problem is, if you aren't leveling how are you improving and making your character stronger? I'm not sure an mmo where your only way of making your toon stronger is through gear right from the beginning would be very fun. But then I don't hate leveling the way some people seem to.

Having no levels is redundant if there is still a gear treadmill because zones will still be segregated by power, it's just not displaying a certain level just the zones gear. You either have downleveling for the option of people wanting relevant content at max level (example gw2) or you remove the gear treadmill and levels and have people play just for the basics of fun instead of playing for power gains (example gw1).

[RoninaThorstone]

I am with you Doozerjun on the down leveling, I really like that system. Having no levels at all would just make people hit the problem we get at max level right from the get go. The problem is, if you aren't leveling how are you improving and making your character stronger? I'm not sure an mmo where your only way of making your toon stronger is through gear right from the beginning would be very fun. But then I don't hate leveling the way some people seem to.

It... would be interesting to see a developer make a classic tiered gear grind MMO without ANY leveling...

Imagine if all the time that went into making the leveling zones and quests went into making raids... For 5 years of development (like most MMOs).

[SirRobin]

Odd, I never felt the urge or need for highbies in lowbie areas due to content shortages. Then again I tend to have altitus so I'm usually running through the lowbie areas pretty often anyway. Just with new toons.

[Valeron]

Right, the systems overall have to support no levels. I mean TSW still has the pseudo leveling with the gear levels which I think was a mistake.

[zito]

Imagine if all the time that went into making the leveling zones and quests went into making raids... For 5 years of development (like most MMOs).

The secret world is a prime example of how that doesn't work. The tiered gear without levels is the same as tiered gear with levels. Once you get Transylvania gear solomons island and Egypt become stupid easy because of the gear, just like out leveling does. The only reason to go back is for the quests (which are better developed in terms of story so its ok to a point)

[Maarius]

Yeah, my opinion on no levels is very much in the minority as well I know that. GW1 handled that really well I thought. While there were levels, there were very few. 95% of the game was at max level and progression revolved around cosmetic and skill acquisition. This is completely offtopic I know but I'm always in hope that there will be another mmo that follows that model.

GW2s backscaling isn't that different, you have still the max. level of a zone. Your level can be lower, which tells you to get stronger, but it can't be higher. It's like you play in a max. level zone.

And why are there levels then, you might ask. To show us a path through the levels... from the frosty norn home to the swampy fen down to the undead zone of Orr. Anet doesn't want us to skip content, at least not from a starterzone to a endzone without experiencing the things between.

[RoninaThorstone]

The secret world is a prime example of how that doesn't work. The tiered gear without levels is the same as tiered gear with levels.

What I am more saying is this.

WOW:TBC launches with every instance and raid in TBC. Your make your character, it's level 70 with greens.

You start at
dungeons > Heroics dungeons > Karazhan / grulls > ect

It would be exactly the same as wow... only you would start at the end game.
edit
I mean, you spent almost ALL your time at 70 anyways. Why was there the 3 day grind to 70?

[Valeron]

Well GW2 is similar, sort of halfway in between both systems. Personally I feel they should have stopped at level 30.

[zito]

What I am more saying is this.

WOW:TBC launches with every instance and raid in TBC. Your make your character, it's level 70 with greens.

You start at
dungeons > Heroics dungeons > Karazhan / grulls > ect

It would be exactly the same as wow... only you would start at the end game.

Oh yea that would be nice. And have quests and dailys and scenarios be at max level too and have relevant loot/rewards.

Wait... so it'll be like gw1?



---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 06:06 PM ----------

Well GW2 is similar, sort of halfway in between both systems. Personally I feel they should have stopped at level 30.

Actually they said mid way they wanted to remove the levels but it was too far into development and would put them back on development way too much.

Downscaling worked out fine for the most part to fix that.

[notorious98]

What I am more saying is this.

WOW:TBC launches with every instance and raid in TBC. Your make your character, it's level 70 with greens.

You start at
dungeons > Heroics dungeons > Karazhan / grulls > ect

It would be exactly the same as wow... only you would start at the end game.

Yeah, I'd play a game like that. I think the only problem you'd run into is the inability to really understand what each ability does beforehand, in a private atmosphere. I know that what you do while leveling is usually not the same as what your rotation becomes while raiding, but you at least get the feel for your character. And you can do that without having the pressure of other people, who may or may not know you, breathing down your neck about "pulling your weight". You might find the casual player would bow out and then you'd be left with hardcores and elitists.

[Valeron]

Yeah I really wish they would have gone the whole way, remove levels, no hearts, no scouts. Would have been much more sandboxy.

[Deleted]

Odd, I never felt the urge or need for highbies in lowbie areas due to content shortages. Then again I tend to have altitus so I'm usually running through the lowbie areas pretty often anyway. Just with new toons.

While I agree with you in terms of my personal playstyle, altoholic support cannot solve the problem on its own. WoW, for example, probably has some of the best altoholic features in the MMORPG genre, yet it is not enough to compensate for the reduction in low level players compared to the release of an expansion or the original game.

In the end, a traditional MMORPG is slowly hurt by its own success by strongly encouraging character specialization through levelling and beyond, therefore becoming "top heavy", imo. To paraphrase Blizzard, "an MMO must never feel empty". This is likely one of the reasons why they introduced free trial access (after not doing so for a long time compared to the competition), plus open world cross-realm zones.

Of course they probably didn't help themselves by introducing flying mounts everywhere and other things, either...

It is not a trivial issue.

[zito]

Yeah, I'd play a game like that.

http://www.guildwars.com/

Max level is 20 and it takes like an hour to get to it and is not even 1/8th of the content. After that it's pretty much what Hk is dictating.

[Valeron]

It's not even a 1/20th of the content.

[notorious98]

It is not a trivial issue.

I think it's also why they eliminated group quests when they revamped. When your zone is barren except for you, it's kinda tough to complete a group quest. And a lot of people will bail if they feel like there's nobody to play with.

[zito]

It's not even a 1/20th of the content.

Not even 1/100th of the content

but i digress

Someone email wildstar and tell them to implement downscaling. The amount of zones they have is pointless when only what 3 of them are for max toons, soon it's just gonna end up like WoW's leveling zones..

[Valeron]

They are probably way too far along in development to put in a major system change like that.

[zito]

They are probably way too far along in development to put in a major system change like that.

who cares

JUST DO IT

*sips coffee*

[RoninaThorstone]

They are probably way too far along in development to put in a major system change like that.

Well, if we've learned anything from MMOs, it's better to push something back 3-4 months to get in an important feature than just winging it.

[Valeron]

Well at any rate, as long as they make the game enjoyable to play, I'll give it a shot even if it doesn't have features that I would like.