[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Zeek Daniels]

When it's a 40vs40 to the death battleground without random resources/objective/buffs then it's enough.

Seriously why has nobody done this yet?

Time constraints, if no one can rez do they just get kicked out of the bg or do they have to wait for it to end, that kinda stuff.

[zito]

Time constraints, if no one can rez do they just get kicked out of the bg or do they have to wait for it to end, that kinda stuff.

runescape did it pretty well, there was a spectator mode and matches didn't really go on long unless you pug and got the one person who always hid. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to implement an activity in the death waiting room such as duels.

shit was awesome

[Worgoblin]

theyve already said there will be pvp servers havent they, so thats pretty much kill on site, expect high level guards in leveling area's and no flying (yet).. i really dont get the whole "open world pvp thing".. sure its awesome killing ppl stealing mobs, nodes, or just when you feel like it but why do they need anything more than that. Isnt 40vs40 battlegrounds enough...

Well, I was thinking meaningful world PvP. Like ESO is going to have territory control which grants your faction with bonuses. I personally am not interested in battlegrounds, I've grown to hate instanced PvP.

[Deleted]

When it's a 40vs40 to the death battleground without random resources/objective/buffs then it's enough.

Seriously why has nobody done this yet?

lol.. mindless killing is awesome. doesnt get boring at all..

how about get a raid, attack an enemy city, defend pve / pvp entrances etc etc. battlegrounds with nothing but killing lol sounds terrible and probably ends in a spawn camp every single time.

[Flaks]

lol.. mindless killing is awesome. doesnt get boring at all..

how about get a raid, attack an enemy city, defend pve / pvp entrances etc etc. battlegrounds with nothing but killing lol sounds terrible and probably ends in a spawn camp every single time.

mindless killing is what goes on most bgs anyways.

A raid camping a city will hardly get a retaliation due to server imbalances/people not caring.

A bg can very easily address all these concerns. 40v40 within a 15 minute timer. Whichever team has most kills wins. In a bg like this, healer imbalance/some people being over/undergeared won't make a difference.

[Deleted]

mindless killing is what goes on most bgs anyways.

yeah you always get a few.. the majority will find a balance between killing, and the objective.

A raid camping a city will hardly get a retaliation due to server imbalances/people not caring.

lol what.. yes they do. Can easily be made more important by adding a few incentives for attacking and defending cities.

A bg can very easily address all these concerns. 40v40 within a 15 minute timer. Whichever team has most kills wins. In a bg like this, healer imbalance/some people being over/undergeared won't make a difference.

sounds awful, zero tactics, no objectives, big zergs in the middle.. outcome will definitely be affected by dps and healers.

[Delanath]

sounds awful, zero tactics, no objectives, big zergs in the middle.. outcome will definitely be affected by dps and healers.

Sounds like world PvP to me.

[Kelimbror]

Sounds like world PvP to me.

If only world PvP was actually that elegant.

World PvP is just a veiled excuse for people who want no repercussions for ganking people. These people clamoring for world PvP will be the same ones 'PvPing' in a zone 40 levels below them and bringnig 20 more losers with them when a couple of characters show up to stop their griefing.

If anyone thinks that world PvP is only qualified by being outside of an instance, no matter how large that instance is, they just want to gank and grief. If they tell you otherwise, they are liars.

[ShimmerSwirl]

If only world PvP was actually that elegant.

World PvP is just a veiled excuse for people who want no repercussions for ganking people. These people clamoring for world PvP will be the same ones 'PvPing' in a zone 40 levels below them and bringnig 20 more losers with them when a couple of characters show up to stop their griefing.

If anyone thinks that world PvP is only qualified by being outside of an instance, no matter how large that instance is, they just want to gank and grief. If they tell you otherwise, they are liars.

You paint with a very broad brush.

[Delanath]

You paint with a very broad brush.

It's called "The Blasted Lands Brush."

[Kelimbror]

You paint with a very broad brush.

No, I really don't. Please explain how an instanced world with several zones and hundreds of people to kill, possibly with resources to farm or it's own quests to complete, is any different than 'world PvP' except the fact that everyone is an equal participant to engage in PvP, regardless of the fairness of it?

The answer is that it isn't a single bit different. It's the same experience, the same rush (for people legit wanting the PvP experience) minus the ability to grief people who don't want it or potentially are several levels lower than you?

If I paint with broad strokes, it's because logic is valid whether you believe it or not *sic*.

edit: The only argument against what I've presented is that PvP servers are by default what I have explained as an example. Except the fact that there are several other motivating factors outside of personal choice that lead people to play on these servers. Whether it's their friends, the population numbers, etc....it is more than a choice of whether they want to engage in PvP.

[Deleted]

Sounds like world PvP to me.

plans for world pvp which is what people have been talking about and not straight up ganking.. that is fighting in an open area for buffs / instanced raids. for wow that would be wintergrasp or something similar.

if you dont like ganking dont roll pvp servers.. its that simple.

[Cebel]

if you dont like ganking dont roll pvp servers.. its that simple.

This can not be stressed enough. One of my absolute favorite things about classic and even tbc WoW, was the feeling of never being safe.

My first venture into stranglethorn vale in classic... is probably still my favorite moment in the game, and that same feeling continued from zone to zone to zone. The feeling of there constantly being a threat makes the world feel alive, it makes the world feel big, it gives the player something to aspire to achieve. When you were level 30 and you saw the guy in Orgrimmar in full t2, it made you want to go level, and work your way up through the content to get to that level. When you were ganked by that Warrior in full valor with a arcanite reaper, you wanted to level up so you could kick his ass the same way he kicked yours. Until another game can create a similar feel, I doubt we will see an extremely strong and long lasting MMO.

[Starbrand]

i too get a "rachet and clank" vibe from the game. doesn't look too graphic-intensive and on that note, i wonder how big the file will be. looks like curse will release info on how they plan on collaborating with the new mmo as well at PAX on March 22nd.

http://east.paxsite.com/schedule/pan...urney-to-nexus

[ShimmerSwirl]

No, I really don't. Please explain how an instanced world with several zones and hundreds of people to kill, possibly with resources to farm or it's own quests to complete, is any different than 'world PvP' except the fact that everyone is an equal participant to engage in PvP, regardless of the fairness of it?

The answer is that it isn't a single bit different. It's the same experience, the same rush (for people legit wanting the PvP experience) minus the ability to grief people who don't want it or potentially are several levels lower than you?

If I paint with broad strokes, it's because logic is valid whether you believe it or not *sic*.

edit: The only argument against what I've presented is that PvP servers are by default what I have explained as an example. Except the fact that there are several other motivating factors outside of personal choice that lead people to play on these servers. Whether it's their friends, the population numbers, etc....it is more than a choice of whether they want to engage in PvP.

The single biggest thing that instanced pvp lacks is the element of surprise. If your in a battleground type setting, everyone there is obviously expecting to pvp, you can't really catch anyone off guard.
I think a big thing you're forgetting is faction conflict. Its more than just a player vs a player, its good vs evil (in a lore sense). If the game presents its story strongly, there is a real dislike for the opposing faction and its really satisfying to kick the bad guys butt. In a Wildstar sense, if i'm a Dominion guy and I see some Exile dude come into a Dominion zone, its like "this is my house!", and everyone gets together to get the intruder out. Or if i'm going along in a neutral zone and I see my arch nemesis Exile warrior questing there, its my duty to my faction to take him out. To me if helps get me into the story and makes the whole Dominion vs Exile conflict feel more genuine.

And just to echo what other posters have said, that constant threat of death around the corner adds a lot of life and excitement to the game that I find enjoyable.

[Kelimbror]

The single biggest thing that instanced pvp lacks is the element of surprise. If your in a battleground type setting, everyone there is obviously expecting to pvp, you can't really catch anyone off guard.

Already explained this...just make a large enough zone with actual content on it. Give it it's own set of dailies, resource gathering, whatever it takes to make it a little PvP eden where there is a point to be there other than to just PvP. That's the only thing that makes pvp have an element of surprise. And tbh, needing the element of surprise for enjoyable PvP just reinforces the ideas I expressed about people just wanting their jollies. Whether it's because they like taking advantage of people or overcoming a disadvantage, it's pretty farcical and vain.

And just to echo what other posters have said, that constant threat of death around the corner adds a lot of life and excitement to the game that I find enjoyable.

The other 95% of MMO players who have limited play time or have grown 'up' probably disagree with you. Most people aren't looking for excitement in potential showdowns and abuse by other players. Those people tend to play FPS games.

This is one of those situations where everyone can have their cake and eat it too, but world PvP proponents can't accept that reality. Unfortunately the reasoning is mostly how I've already explained it.

[ShimmerSwirl]

Already explained this...just make a large enough zone with actual content on it. Give it it's own set of dailies, resource gathering, whatever it takes to make it a little PvP eden where there is a point to be there other than to just PvP. That's the only thing that makes pvp have an element of surprise. And tbh, needing the element of surprise for enjoyable PvP just reinforces the ideas I expressed about people just wanting their jollies. Whether it's because they like taking advantage of people or overcoming a disadvantage, it's pretty farcical and vain.

The other 95% of MMO players who have limited play time or have grown 'up' probably disagree with you. Most people aren't looking for excitement in potential showdowns and abuse by other players. Those people tend to play FPS games.

This is one of those situations where everyone can have their cake and eat it too, but world PvP proponents can't accept that reality. Unfortunately the reasoning is mostly how I've already explained it.

You are truly unbelievable. You're honestly trying to convince us that anyone who enjoys world PvP is some kind of sophomoric, sadistic loser? You have such narrow parameters of what is acceptable for gameplay, did it ever occur to you that not all players are exactly like you?

The zone you propose in the the first paragraph is....a regular world zone. Why would a developer create a separate zone in a instance that is exactly the same as a normal zone?

You managed to conveniently ignore my point about world pvp adding to the story and lore. I'm sure you can dig up some more conjecture to tell me why that's wrong too.

[Deleted]

The other 95% of MMO players who have limited play time or have grown 'up' probably disagree with you. Most people aren't looking for excitement in potential showdowns and abuse by other players. Those people tend to play FPS games.

utter nonsense..

please explain how the 95% of "grown ups" dont know the difference between pve and pvp servers. Its like someone playing HC perm death difficulty and complaining the character got deleted when they died.

[zaxlor]

I think the problem is when a game has levels and has an open world PvP element, despite some people finding it fun to gank, you're forcing those that don't to create content for them.

It's only fun for the attacker and rarely for the defender. I'd just started playing Tera on a PvP server because that's where my friends are and the first zone is so annoying. I don't want to keep running back to quest, just because someone else wants me dead. Now, fair enough, PvP on a PvP server, which at it's core is what it is. One player verses another. I'd imagine most people don't want to be on the losing side though. It'd be a weird game, if all you did was turn it on, run towards an enemy and die. Even if there was amazing animations for how they rip and rend you apart, you're not going to get people playing it for very long.

The inclusion of set zones for PvP is great though, it creates a level playing field and allows people who really want to create PvP content to do just that. Casting a blanket over the entire world and then saying "Sorry, if you're not max level at any time someone else can dictate what constitutes as fun to you" is not something i'd imagine most people enjoy.

I'm all for ambushes and things like the Crossroads and Tarren Mill, but it's got it's place. When I first started playing WoW, two Rogues were hiding behind an archway in Ashenvale at the top of a hill. The first time it was great, since I thought it was a quest, but then realised it was other players actually playing the role of their character. After the third when there was no way past them, it got boring. I didn't want to be the content for their game, they were forcing me into it. Yet again, PvP on a PvP server, but that can be fun WHEN there's a level playing field. Getting caught mid fight, burning cooldowns then either killing the attacker or escaping IS an adrenaline rush.

Instanced content will diminish the "Keep an eye over your shoulder" effect, but it makes sure that those looking for PvP migrate to it and the griefers arn't allowed to dicate their fun onto other players. I think that's what Kitty is trying to get at anyways ^^

[Kelimbror]

You are truly unbelievable. You're honestly trying to convince us that anyone who enjoys world PvP is some kind of sophomoric, sadistic loser?

Nope, try again. See the following.

The zone you propose in the the first paragraph is....a regular world zone. Why would a developer create a separate zone in a instance that is exactly the same as a normal zone?

Oh I don't know, because it's WHERE YOU WORLD PVP? Other games do this. They have certain islands, or continents for PvP. Fracturing your playerbase based on whether they want to kill/be killed in the open world is pointless. Having 100 servers is also pointless. In the modern era of MMOs, we should ideally be playing on much larger shards with specific large content areas for PvP.

Having all of these people on one server actually encourges branching out into new experiences while also providing safety nets/respite from things that people tire of. It helps prevent boredom, frustration, and overall is a better design principle for a game.

People who are getting all angry at my idea, which doesn't change your actual world PvP capabilities in any way, are people that no matter how much you protest clearly just want the advantages/disadvantages of ganking or griefing.

utter nonsense..

please explain how the 95% of "grown ups" dont know the difference between pve and pvp servers. Its like someone playing HC perm death difficulty and complaining the character got deleted when they died.

1) You aren't responding to what my quote was talking about...I never said people wouldn't know the difference. Please read before blasting ignorance.

2) I didn't say 'grown ups', stop putting words in my mouth. Maybe using quote marks on one word was confusing. It was a play on words which is why I put the quote marks just around the word up. It implied that I'm not trying to say it's a maturation specifically, to prevent being an actual insulting statement.

How about I say have 'grown out' of it? Does that suit your fancy better? It just meant that people get tired of that playstyle, especially as their life and playstyle changes.

The inclusion of set zones for PvP is great though, it creates a level playing field and allows people who really want to create PvP content to do just that. Casting a blanket over the entire world and then saying "Sorry, if you're not max level at any time someone else can dictate what constitutes as fun to you" is not something i'd imagine most people enjoy.

*snip*

Instanced content will diminish the "Keep an eye over your shoulder" effect, but it makes sure that those looking for PvP migrate to it and the griefers arn't allowed to dicate their fun onto other players. I think that's what Kitty is trying to get at anyways ^^

Exactly.


Let's take this further so there's no more confusion by others:


Imagine that leveling content had 2-4 choices for where you could be at a certain level. 50% were PvE zones, where player combat isn't possible at all and the other 50% are anything goes PvP experiences.


The zones are just as large, diverse, filled qith quests and gathering, except one gives you the constant threat of PvP.

If a game was designed like this, it provides for every person, regardless of their enjoyment, to have fun of their choosing. It dictates the content and you 'choose' to participate in that form of content instead of having an imperialistic society where someone with greater power can choose how you get to play.

PvP/PvE servers is an unwarranted segregation of players and is an outdated principle.