[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Viscoe]

And where in the NDA does it say that? it only states you cannot share it's content or talk about said content. Nor mension of participating. Only possible thing i could see an issue with my statement is "me not liking it" and waiting for the NDA to lift so i can express why.

Honestly, I haven't read the NDA because I'm not in the game.

But the mods and other people were talking about it earlier. I just wanted to point it out because they won't let you say it HERE. I don't really think Carbine goes trawling this thread to ban you from your MMOC post.

Edit: Check this page where Edgecrusher gets annoyed that people are saying they got into the beta without REALLY saying it, even though we knew what they were talking about anyway.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...active/page333

The reason is because they dance over the line of the NDA very carefully. Because saying you got into the beta is breaking the NDA.

And then there's this:

*snip*

Hey, there's a NDA. That means you can't talk about any participation in or information from the beta. Thanks. -Edge

[Valeron]

There's just nothing to talk about with ESO. They keep everything hush hush so people stop giving a shit until more info arises. Carbine gives us stuff to talk about. I imagine once they release ESO gameplay at quakecon the conversation will pick up again.

This pretty much. There is just no information about the game to talk about so it has gone quiet. Things will pick up there (and here with this game as well) once the game conventions start at the end of August.

[zito]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement

Nothing about saying you can't say you are part of an NDA

/shrug

[Viscoe]

The whole point of me pointing it out was so he wouldn't get an infraction or something. They don't let you mention the stuff on these boards, because they claim it breaks the NDA.

That's all I'm sayin'.

[zito]

This Mutual Non-Disclosure Agreement (the “Agreement”) is made and entered into as of the date last signed (the “Effective Date”) by and between Carbine LLC, on behalf of itself, its subsidiaries, affiliates, and related companies, and the party set forth in the signature block.

2.“Confidential Information” means any information disclosed by either party to the other party, either directly or indirectly in writing, orally, or by inspection of tangible objects (i) that the disclosing party identifies as confidential or proprietary; or (ii) that reasonably appears to be confidential or proprietary because of legends or other markings, the circumstances of disclosure, or the nature of the information itself. Confidential Information may also include confidential or proprietary information disclosed to a disclosing party by a third party.

3.Exceptions. Notwithstanding Section 2, Confidential Information shall not include any information which (i) is now, or hereafter becomes, through no act or failure to act on the part of the receiving party, generally known or available to the public without breach of this Agreement by the receiving party; (ii) was acquired by the receiving party without restriction as to use or disclosure before receiving such information from the disclosing party, as shown by the receiving party's files and records immediately prior to the time of disclosure; (iii) is obtained by the receiving party without restriction as to use or disclosure by a third party authorized to make such disclosure; or (iv) is independently developed by the receiving party without use of or reference to the disclosing party's Confidential Information, as shown by documents and other competent evidence in the receiving party's possession.

5.Maintenance of Confidentiality. The receiving party will maintain the confidentiality of the disclosing party’s Confidential Information with at least the same degree of care that it uses to protect its own confidential and proprietary information, but in no event less than a reasonable degree of care under the circumstances. The receiving party will not disclose any of the disclosing party’s Confidential Information to employees or to any third parties except to the receiving party’s employees who have a need to know such information in connection with the Purpose and have agreed to abide by non-disclosure terms at least as protective of the disclosing party’s Confidential Information as those set forth herein.

7.Duration of Protection. The obligations set forth herein with respect to the disclosing party’s Confidential Information shall be protected by this Agreement until such information is no longer Confidential Information because it is covered by an exception set forth in Section 3.

8.Term. This Agreement shall be effective as of the Effective Date and shall remain in effect for a period of one (1) year. Thereafter, the Agreement shall automatically renew for additional automatic one (1) year terms if any Confidential Information has been exchanged within three (3) months preceding the renewal date. Otherwise, the agreement shall expire. Upon expiration or termination of this Agreement, this Agreement shall survive to the extent necessary to protect Confidential Information exchanged during the term of the Agreement pursuant to Section 7.

Too many unnecessary words.

Moving on

[Viscoe]

If that is truly the NDA, then I believe the problem lies here, if there is a problem at all.

2.“Confidential Information” means any information disclosed by either party to the other party, either directly or indirectly in writing, orally, or by inspection of tangible objects (i) that the disclosing party identifies as confidential or proprietary; or (ii) that reasonably appears to be confidential or proprietary because of legends or other markings, the circumstances of disclosure, or the nature of the information itself. Confidential Information may also include confidential or proprietary information disclosed to a disclosing party by a third party.

They tell you you get into the beta. They're telling you something. Confidential information. It's a closed beta, so that IMPLIES it's confidential by the nature of the invite. If they wanted everyone to know, then they'd let it be an open beta or they'd post an invite list somewhere.

Those are my assumptions, anyway.

All I know, is that the mods have edited it out of posts earlier in the thread.

I didn't - and don't - have access to the NDA. So I have no idea whether it's in there or not. (Zito your post seems to be missing the first point? I have no idea. It doesn't actually matter, in any case, because when that other guy's post was made, I had no way of viewing the NDA.)

I was just letting him know about that because I didn't want him to risk an infraction. My apologies for my good intentions.

Edit 2: Oh look, I check the thread in the morning and all the "non NDA breaking" posts have been deleted. :P

[Killilth]

I'm so stoked for this game. I hope I don't over hype it to death before it gets released. Really looking forward to the aiming method and the "Paths"

[Arewn]

I'm so stoked for this game. I hope I don't over hype it to death before it gets released. Really looking forward to the aiming method and the "Paths"

This game looks good, which is why I am ignoring it for the most part until release xD Waiting for things like this is killer.

[Remilia]

Please... just stop skirting the NDA line. You're not allowed to mention you're invited and obvious implications to it. The Wildstar NDA is about as strict as the FFXIV one.

I realize that it isn't fun and all, but it's something we have to adhere to.

[Deleted]

Looking pretty interesting so far. Kind of curious about how the payment system is going to turn out.
Swtors model sucks ass and so does pretty much all other f2p-mmos. I hope this isnt just another failure
like all the other mmos lately that tried to punch wow of the throne.

Hoping for some beta access so i can silence my curiosity soon

[Nirawen]

Please... just stop skirting the NDA line. You're not allowed to mention you're invited and obvious implications to it. The Wildstar NDA is about as strict as the FFXIV one.

I realize that it isn't fun and all, but it's something we have to adhere to.

But surely if you do a stupid >.> face or say your guessing then it's not breaking the NDA, or thats the impression one would get from the past 100 pages .

[Collected]

Looking pretty interesting so far. Kind of curious about how the payment system is going to turn out.
Swtors model sucks ass and so does pretty much all other f2p-mmos. I hope this isnt just another failure
like all the other mmos lately that tried to punch wow of the throne.

Jeremy Gaffney discusses pay models here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...fLDdmnhA&t=590

It sounds like they have an open mind about the subject.

[zito]

Jeremy Gaffney discusses pay models here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...fLDdmnhA&t=590

It sounds like they have an open mind about the subject.

He's got a point, that nobody want's to pay for anything period. However in this day and age subscription models are not as successful as B2P/F2P models. Trying to remember there is WoW, EVE and FF11 that still get good numbers in terms of players and are a subscription. Rift didn't even have to go F2P, hell they could of stick to B2P but they did because it's more profitable and it gains a playerbase. (They are working on 2 new raids and another expansion)

WoW loses subs every year despite content and expansions. Remember when they had 13 million subscribers? Now were down to 7 million. Not indicated that WoW is dying but I think the model sure is.

[Collected]

WoW loses subs every year despite content and expansions. Remember when they had 13 million subscribers? Now were down to 7 million. Not indicated that WoW is dying but I think the model sure is.

My personal view is I don't think folks stop playing WoW because of the cost, they stopped playing WoW because of the content. Take GW2 for example.. that was supposed to be the perfect model. You pay once, and then you can play whenever you want for free. I don't play it anymore. Nor did any of my friends. Nor do some big streamers I watch. So I don't think it's a pay issue.. I think it's content. If they develop a game that keeps people wanting to play.. I think they'll pay a sub.

[CrossNgen]

My personal view is I don't think folks stop playing WoW because of the cost, they stopped playing WoW because of the content. Take GW2 for example.. that was supposed to be the perfect model. You pay once, and then you can play whenever you want for free. I don't play it anymore. Nor did any of my friends. Nor do some big streamers I watch. So I don't think it's a pay issue.. I think it's content. If they develop a game that keeps people wanting to play.. I think they'll pay a sub.

You're not keeping a tab on GW2, are you?

[Collected]

You're not keeping a tab on GW2, are you?

Well the tab I keep is my MMO friends and four or five popular gaming streamers I watch on Twitch. Everyone in this group played GW2 at launch. None play it now. So my point was they stopped playing due to content, rather than due to cost. I don't think i've heard anyone say "Gee I'd love to play WoW it's just so damn expensive."

Anyway I'm risking derailing the thread with this so I'll stop there.

[Nellise]

He's got a point, that nobody want's to pay for anything period. However in this day and age subscription models are not as successful as B2P/F2P models. Trying to remember there is WoW, EVE and FF11 that still get good numbers in terms of players and are a subscription. Rift didn't even have to go F2P, hell they could of stick to B2P but they did because it's more profitable and it gains a playerbase. (They are working on 2 new raids and another expansion)

WoW loses subs every year despite content and expansions. Remember when they had 13 million subscribers? Now were down to 7 million. Not indicated that WoW is dying but I think the model sure is.

But has there been a single MMO with a monthly sub that's been any good at release since WoW? LotRO, AoC, WAR, Aion, SWTOR, RIFT (at release, certainly much better now), and some others I'm sure I can't remember all actually sold well when they were released with a monthly sub (SWTOR was over 2million), but died off because they simply weren't very good games.

WoW is such an anomaly is hard to tell anything from its sub numbers at this point. They said several times WoW has always lost players, but early on they always had enough new ones to cover those losses. Is it surprising that a 9 year old game isn't gaining many new players any more? I actually think having lots of expansions keeps new players away. I always wanted to try EQ or DAoC but when they were on their 3rd or 4th xpac already I never felt like I'd ever be able to catch up so never got either game. Even thinking of going back to LotRO for me now is daunting since they're so far beyond when I last stopped playing.

I prefer the sub model since in any of the f2p games I always feel like I'm being bombarded asking me to buy stuff, like the game is one giant commercial. I hope Wildstar at least starts as sub (or B2P) so the game can stand on its own if its good enough.

[zito]

But has there been a single MMO with a monthly sub that's been any good at release since WoW? LotRO, AoC, WAR, Aion, SWTOR, RIFT (at release, certainly much better now), and some others I'm sure I can't remember all actually sold well when they were released with a monthly sub (SWTOR was over 2million), but died off because they simply weren't very good games.

Those are actually good games (Minus SWTOR), though good is subjective, I think aion lasted a year or 2 with a constant sub and obviously RIFT lasted over 2 with a sub. Neither had to go F2P, but it's just more popular and turns out more of a profit and get's players into the game cause it's free.

I prefer the sub model since in any of the f2p games I always feel like I'm being bombarded asking me to buy stuff, like the game is one giant commercial. I hope Wildstar at least starts as sub (or B2P) so the game can stand on its own if its good enough.

I don't remember any games that bombard you with advertising unless it's the cash shop or the browser message before you launch the client and that's hardly bombarding.

My personal view is I don't think folks stop playing WoW because of the cost, they stopped playing WoW because of the content. Take GW2 for example.. that was supposed to be the perfect model. You pay once, and then you can play whenever you want for free. I don't play it anymore. Nor did any of my friends. Nor do some big streamers I watch. So I don't think it's a pay issue.. I think it's content. If they develop a game that keeps people wanting to play.. I think they'll pay a sub.

GW2 is new a different so people not liking different content then the norm is predictable. WoW has been doing what it has been doing since the start of it's birth in theory it should be getting a steady flow of subscriptions not drastically losing them since what it's been doing has been popular for years now.

I don't play it anymore because I had to pay for the game and then pay to log in and my money funded projects which I had to pay for too. Which is what they state but when they go a year without any updates which my money was suppose to fund and then tell me to buy it again even though I funded it.... I wanna know where my money goes.

[Valeron]

Those are actually good games (Minus SWTOR), though good is subjective,

I actually think SWTOR is pretty good that is brought down in large part because of the terrible F2P model that they have.

[Nellise]

Those are actually good games (Minus SWTOR), though good is subjective, I think aion lasted a year or 2 with a constant sub and obviously RIFT lasted over 2 with a sub. Neither had to go F2P, but it's just more popular and turns out more of a profit and get's players into the game cause it's free.

They weren't good when they released, I don't deny that they became good after time. But most players gave them some time, then got fed up and never went back. All were missing major features and/or endgame content. AOC and WAR were both completely broken at level cap. Aion was a massive grind from about 35-50, almost no quests after there had been standard MMO questing up until then (Aion mostly survived on Asian subs). RIFT was missing most of its features too when it released: no raid/pvp rifts--or if there were they were broken, overtuned dungeons, no instant adventures or chronicles, a single 5 boss, buggy raid, no LFD. SWTOR was missing lots of basic features and had little level-cap content. LotRO is the only one I didn't play when it released so can't say what caused its problems.

If any of those games had the polish WoW had at the time they were released, I think they would have had a chance to survive or even thrive as a sub game (SWToR blew this big time). WildStar has a good chance to fill the void being made by WoW finally losing steam as long as they don't rush it like all those other games did.

I don't remember any games that bombard you with advertising unless it's the cash shop or the browser message before you launch the client and that's hardly bombarding.

Every time I open a vendor in Rift and I'm shown the in game currency price and the cash shop price for everything is the worst offender to me. I like that Rift left all the features available in f2p, but the vendor thing is obnoxious. But also seeing interesting items on other players and then learning the only way to get them is through the cash shop, that to me is advertising.