[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Kronik85]

They have no explained female chuas fully yet.

Ye your right, I guess what I was trying to get at was that I would rather them just say that the Chua are asexual or don't have sexual dimorphism rather than try to come up for some grandiose lore reason like the Dominion locked in them in a tower to keep the rest of them in line.....coz that wouldn't even make sense considering how the Chua are completely sociopathic.

The Chua do not negotiate with terrorists!....Because they don't care about hostages .

[jackofwind]

The difference, to me, is that Canada knows full well who the Taliban is. The Aurin had NO IDEA about ANY war. They were a peaceful race who just sort of got blindsided for being too nice.

Furthermore, they had nothing to gain other than another enemy by declaring "total sovereignty" on Arboria. It was not only a meany-pants decision, but also a stupid one.

This is why I disagree with the Dominion. Their methods are... let's use ruthless. Ruthless is a better word, and one not necessarily linked to being evil.

One of the appeals of the Draken is that they are only tied to the Dominon by way of having been dominated in a manner acknowledged by them as culturally acceptable. They exist only to hunt, and as such have little care for politics or for gaining greater autonomy within the Dominon itself, let alone regaining their independence.

They could just as easily have been members of the Exiles had their ancient defeat come at the hands of a member of that faction - their membership is not based at all on a racial pursuit of vanity, ambition, influence, resources, or galactic control (unlike the other Dominon races). Really, they couldn't care less who they follow as long as they get to hunt.

[Viscoe]

And this is why the task of governing the universe was handed to people who could get the job done. Feelings have nothing to do with anything. It's also not stupid, because there's no alternative. Everyone either joins the Dominion as instructed by the Eldan, or they have to be dealt with.

Most of the objections you raise are with the Eldan's instructions.

The Eldan themselves are a whole 'nother piece of work.

Anyways, @DOminion: You attract more flies with honey than salt. Or however that saying goes.

It was stupid of them to attack the Aurin instead of saying "Hey guys, those people you helped are actually our enemy. You're aiding a bunch of intergalactic criminals. If you do not come to our side of things, we'll declare war on you, too." Instead of just making an enemy out of someone else that they previously didn't even know existed.

- - - Updated - - -

What are you talking about, there is no indicated that they were not technologically advanced. Just because they are hippies doesn't mean their an under developed race.

The chua refer to them as much.

[Kronik85]

That word doesn't mean what you think it means. Giving the consolation that there are more ideologies and moral schema other than your personal morality is the exact opposite of pedantic. If you are going to criticize, at least do so accurately.

Unfortunately for you it does.

ped·ant·ry [ped-n-tree] Show IPA
noun, plural ped·ant·ries.
1.
the character, qualities, practices, etc., of a pedant, especially undue display of learning.
2.
slavish attention to rules, details, etc.
3.
an instance of being pedantic: the pedantries of modern criticism.

Can we not do this please, I'm perfectly fine on moral relativism thanks. Now tell me something nice the Dominion have done that didn't serve the Dominion.

[Viscoe]

snip

I'm not talking about the Draken. :x I'm mostly aiming my discontent at the Cassians and Mechari, and to that extent, the Eldan.

And from what I understand, the Eldan are nothing nice, either. They're pretty crappy themselves, coming to the non-advanced humans and being like "Give us your leader OR ELSE."

[zito]

The chua refer to them as much.

Well yea chua want to devour any and all resource for advancement while the aurin want to preserve it. Of course they would think anyone who disagrees with them to be technologically flunky.

[Viscoe]

Well yea chua want to devour any and all resource for advancement while the aurin want to preserve it. Of course they would think anyone who disagrees with them to be technologically flunky.

Well, that's all I have to roll with, so that's what I'm assuming.

Also, if the Aurin were even remotely advanced, the Dominion would have probably gotten to them before the Exiles. They went after the Granok for goodness sake.

[Kelimbror]

Unfortunately for you it does.

Thank you for proving my point. Adherence to a strict set of rules would be to only allow for one set of values, instead of recognizing that all values will be different. We've had this debate at length in other forums.

Let me give you some straight connotative meanings, since you seem to think that there should only be one way of looking at anything. Pedantic: narrow minded, unimagative, minute knowledge. All things that would be used to define the view that there is one moral code to rule them all, as you knowingly or not are presenting.

You're even limiting the nature of altruism to fit your morality. The objective use of the word simply implies 'For the greater good'. That point of emphasis you are defining with a subconscious expression of morality. They are doing what the Eldan (greater good) commanded of them. Your perception of their actions are irrelevant.

[Viscoe]

I also wanted to address this but then sort of forgot.

And this is why the task of governing the universe was handed to people who could get the job done. Feelings have nothing to do with anything.

Who says they have the right to govern the universe? The Eldan? And who the hell are they to think they have the right to give that right?

That's my take on things. No one has any "right" to just declare war on people because they think the deserve the whole universe. Obviously the Eldan don't mean shit to the Exiles, because if they did, they'd submit to the Dominion. And if not everyone in the whole universe cares about the bullcrap that some super ancient dudes decreed, then they have EVERY RIGHT to be left alone on their own home planets where their races (presumably) evolved or were welcomed by the natives.

Again, I'd like to plaster over the entire post that this is all my opinion. This is the point of factions; to drive people to the respective place because of their personal morals.

[zito]

Well, that's all I have to roll with, so that's what I'm assuming.

Also, if the Aurin were even remotely advanced, the Dominion would have probably gotten to them before the Exiles. They went after the Granok for goodness sake.

They went after granok because they are strong, an excellent military force. Don't assume things and state them as fact it provides nothing to the conversation but false assumptions.

[Viscoe]

They went after granok because they are strong, an excellent military force. Don't assume things and state them as fact it provides nothing to the conversation but false assumptions.

Well, assuming is kind of what you have to do when you're discussing scraps of story and don't have access to the whole thing. As I said a page ago, if I'm wrong about this then I'll happily eat my words.

In any case, if the Aurin didn't have any value to offer as a race, they wouldn't be a playable race. The assumption of the matter is they were probably too early in their evolution to provide anything of "worth" to the Dominion. In time, as with the other umptillian races in this game, they probably would have developed technology to make them space-faring. So their lack of that technology is what made them so isolated.

[Kelimbror]

Who says they have the right to govern the universe? The Eldan? And who the hell are they to think they have the right to give that right?

Who knows? That's part of the story we don't know. For all you know they created the entire universe and everything in it. They are very into experimenting. They might know far more than we do about life, space, and time. You're falling victim to the same problem the other guy is...by looking at this with your own moral ideologies as the only truth.

The reason why it is interesting/compelling is because that isn't how the picture is painted. It's open to interpretation, obviously, which is why we'll all play whatever we feel like or connect with and make up our own reasons for doing so. Does the Dominion have typical bad guy idiosyncrasies? Sure. But that's just how our Western Society perceives them.

Fortunately we don't dictate reality in the game world much like any particular religion shouldn't determine how the entire world operates.

[Viscoe]

That's kind of what I've been getting at the whole time, Kitty. This whole thing started because I said I agree with the Exiles more - more like I agree with the Aurin more, like how I agreed with Tauren in WoW and not the overall Horde.

Then someone said the Exiles were evil and I said if anyone's evil it's the Dominion, and this whole thing started.

Anyways, in the end it really DOES come down to your personal morals because that's what drives you to play a faction, again, as I've been saying. And as I've been stating is my opinion this whole time: I disagree, greatly, with the methods that the Dominion use. They are ruthless and unmerciful. I do not roll with that.

WoW did the same thing with a lot of the Alliance vs Horde lore. It's good storytelling, and if I didn't enjoy hating the Dominion (this could probably be worded better. Think about like love to hate Malfoy in HP universe, stuff like that,) I wouldn't be talking about it to such great lengths.

And as to your last bit about how no one religion should dictate how the whole world operates? That perfectly defines how I feel about the Dominion's actions. Your ancient, "god"-like beings don't get to tell me that I'm allowed to live on my planet or not. That sort of thing. I understand that the DOminion is "just following orders" much like Garrosh's orcs, but I disagree with their practices. So Exiles it is for me!

[Zemenar]

Really until we actually get to play the whole game and see the lore we can only guess at motives/methods/ideologies/etc of each faction/race.
So we'll just have to agree to disagree about it for now. As a token of friendship, here have this gift Viscoe! Don't worry about th ticking sound, its a feature of the gift

And I doubt the announcement can be just telling us that the Chua are female. Thats already been mentioned in an earlier interview, and hardly any reason to be "Super excited about a special PAX Prime announcement coming tomorrow [today/source]" that would just be a bad blow to hyping it all up just to tell us that Chua can/cant be female. Although I'd prolly be laughing about it.

[Kronik85]

Thank you for proving my point. Adherence to a strict set of rules would be to only allow for one set of values, instead of recognizing that all values will be different. We've had this debate at length in other forums.

Let me give you some straight connotative meanings, since you seem to think that there should only be one way of looking at anything. Pedantic: narrow minded, unimagative, minute knowledge. All things that would be used to define the view that there is one moral code to rule them all, as you knowingly or not are presenting.

You're even limiting the nature of altruism to fit your morality. The objective use of the word simply implies 'For the greater good'. That point of emphasis you are defining with a subconscious expression of morality. They are doing what the Eldan (greater good) commanded of them. Your perception of their actions are irrelevant.

Hahhaha. I'm sorry to Godwin the thread but through the wonders of moral relativity then you can argue the Nazi's weren't evil. It's a pointless discussion which is why I think your being pedantic. If you want to say that genocide isn't a heinous crime then the Nazi's weren't wrong or evil. There's nothing to be gained from displaying that level of detachment besides being objective though. All you do when you apply moral relativism is point out that nothing means anything, you don't have to point out that everybody has a different take on things, I'm perfectly aware of it, as is everyone on the internet.

What I said was it's hard to say The Dominion are the good guys with a straight face, you can argue that The Dominion is in the pursuit of the greater good but they are harming other's along the way and as a human making a judgement on them then I can't imagine Planet Reaping a planet with a populace is a crime on the level of genocide and genocide is wrong.

Good vs Evil isn't the same issue as Good guy vs Bad guy. I brought up The Venture Brothers earlier but the Bad Guy's aren't evil, that's what makes them so compelling. The Monarch would be terrible if he was actually evil but he just loves fucking with Doctor Venture and being a dick to people and I love him for it (also his romance with Dr Mrs The Monarch is the greatest love story ever written).

I said earlier that a spade is a spade and The Dominion are the bad guy's, whether the Cassian's think what they are doing doesn't mean squat when it's not Cassian's that will play Wildstar and be making the judgement on who's the bad guy, it's us the players.

[Razael]

Better be the classes reveal. Or else. I might just do something about it. Not really no.

[Viscoe]

I love the Venture Bros, Kronik. ;w;

[Kelimbror]

That's kind of what I've been getting at the whole time, Kitty. This whole thing started because I said I agree with the Exiles more - more like I agree with the Aurin more, like how I agreed with Tauren in WoW and not the overall Horde.

That's fair enough. I've never been arguing that either faction is anything and to be fair Edge was just sleepy typoing, so no one actually said the Exiles were evil.

And as to your last bit about how no one religion should dictate how the whole world operates? That perfectly defines how I feel about the Dominion's actions. Your ancient, "god"-like beings don't get to tell me that I'm allowed to live on my planet or not.

The Dominion and the Eldan aren't a religion and I'm not arguing that the Dominion can do whatever they want or saying either side is better than the other. It just is what it is, survivial. For all you know the Dominion were told to do this or else they would all be annihilated on the spot. We don't know the exact situation that preceded this game.

Additionally, the Eldan aren't like an unknown 'God' we have in our real world that people choose to believe in. It would be if a deity had a civilization in a physical dimension, then abruptly left and we are exploring their world. It's not like we're seeking proof of their existence, more like we are using anthropology to figure out everything about them since they aren't phsyically present. Sort of the equivalent of us discovering that Heaven is a real place and then flying there in space ships.

And for the record, I'm playing Exiles just because my wife and I both like certain races for our first character, not to mention want that Firefly feeling when we start playing.

[Viscoe]

The Dominion and the Eldan aren't a religion and I'm not arguing that the Dominion can do whatever they want or saying either side is better than the other. It just is what it is, survivial. For all you know the Dominion were told to do this or else they would all be annihilated on the spot. We don't know the exact situation that preceded this game.

Additionally, the Eldan aren't like an unknown 'God' we have in our real world that people choose to believe in. It would be if a deity had a civilization in a physical dimension, then abruptly left and we are exploring their world. It's not like we're seeking proof of their existence, more like we are using anthropology to figure out everything about them since they aren't phsyically present. Sort of the equivalent of us discovering that Heaven is a real place and then flying there in space ships.

I never said they were a religion, it's just a good way to put it. Their whole shpiel is being forced onto everyone just because. And I understand it's just survival; the Cassians were threatened with "dire consequences" if they didn't submit. But now that the Eldan are gone, maybe they should quit it.

The thing is, even though they were the oldest and whatever, it doesn't give them the "right" to boss everyone around or anything. I'm not trying to compare the Eldan to gods - they are MUCH closer to Titans from the WoW mythos. Consider the Mogu - they were just doing what they thought was right by their "fathers" (the Titans.) It was still pretty fucked up, though.

[Kelimbror]

It's a pointless discussion which is why I think your being pedantic.

Except you're the one refusing to accept a reality other than your own...which you know...is actually being pedantic. The conversation is pointless because instead of taking a step back and admitting there are other ways to think than your own, you'd rather keep claiming that you are right and chase your own tail.

I've tossed plenty of tennis balls for you to fetch, not my problem if you think spinning in circles is more amusing.

PS- Please stop putting words in my mouth via your own misinterpretations of language. Stating that there are different ideologies other than your own is certainly =/= to nothing means anything. Thankfully you weren't in my Lit Theory class. You would have been failed on principle.

It was still pretty fucked up, though.

To you. Clearly not them.