How to teach raid awareness? Need help

[CrossKeeper]

Dear Community,

I need real help on how to teach raid awareness. I have been raiding since the BC days and have always enjoyed it. No I am not a hardcore raider, but I would say I am a good raider just been in the military prevented me from meeting a raid schedule. Alright but moving on here is the problem...I have joined a new guild now that I have time to raid on a schedule and am distressed at the lack of raid awareness in my guild.
I tank for G2 and in 2 weeks of raiding we are now 3/7 FL and probably going to be 4/7 after Monday's raid night. This last week we had a few regulars not show up for G1 and G3 so I brought my priest to each group to try and help and noticed some glaring issues. BTW these are all 10man groups.

---- On average 3 players getting caught in crystal prisons
---- Paladins not realizing which buff they should be putting up (this drove me insane since it was after every wipe)
---- Shannox being at 40% with Riplimb at 80%
---- On average 2 immolation traps triggered on accident
---- The spiderlings dps team not killing anything if spiderlings are dead
---- Healer going up the web before the tank....tank taunting one then heading up without second down for healer to go up
---- Bottom tank FF spinners down then not touching again causing to run wild in the healers
---- Top healer falling thru web holes

So these are just some of the things that most irritated me. Yes our dps is low on alot of fights, but could be made up for if not for these kinds of mistakes. And these mistakes happened wipe after wipe after wipe. These people all do fine in dungeons, but fail when in a raid environment.

Yes I know I could go to another guild and be with better players, but I would rather try and increase the pool of good players. So my question is how do you teach raid awareness?

On a side note running for my 4.3 transmorg gear I realized there was a slow ramping up of raid awarness requirements over the course of WoW, but if you did not raid all of it jumping in at FL is quite shocking.

Thank you in advance for any useful responses.

My two mains just incase you care.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Pokpok/simple

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ar/reit/simple

Both are in offspec gear I just realized..oh well

[Deleted]

Tbh if all those issues you listed happen frequently I would just leave your guild. That's a lot of people making a lot of stupid f*ck ups, i'm sorry to tell you that you're unfortunately just playing with unskilled players.

[Deleted]

tbh dude with the amount of guilds around in this xpansion, i can guarantee half of them are in the same boat as you have just described. Teaching raid awareness is hard unless you have a decent raid leader, or you have raided for a long time, but with the openness of cataclysm came the noob raider influx. i would just pack up shop and join another guild or ask your raid leader/GM to put you in the better group more on par with your skill/gear.

[fainflinn]

make them all press ctrl+z on there keyboard then make them all run 5 mans for a month when they finally learn to play without looking at their keybinds then maybe they can pay attention to what the hell they are supposed to be doing

[seam]

I'm not so sure it's something you can 'teach', from what I've seen it's something learned from experience...

Once thing I think my old guild used to do was have something like a contest. "Everyone gets X if no one does stupid thing Y", so maybe if your guild doesn't currently give repairs, if no one triggers a trap they shouldn't the next raid will be fully repair funded, or something.

Pally buff wise, tell them to sort it out between themselves. Seriously, that's basic teamwork that they're screwing up on.

[Deleted]

make them all press ctrl+z on there keyboard then make them all run 5 mans for a month when they finally learn to play without looking at their keybinds then maybe they can pay attention to what the hell they are supposed to be doing

]

... Did you hear the issues the OP arose? I got 10 bucks on 90% of his 10 man clicking and keyboard turning.

[Deleted]

How do you teach raid awareness? Well - it's mostly practice. And it only carries between fights to a certain extent. The most important thing is that you're in the clear with your officers. From there on, set up short 'training sessions' with small subsets of guild members. Keep an eye out which players could do with the most help. If teaching is not a hobby of yours, you may not pick up the subtle signs that indicate wether someone is challenged by, on par with or bored with your lessons. The fact that you're trying to do this through the internet does not help.

In your above scenario, you could peek into proper buff strategy for Paladins, get your guild Paladins together and start a discussion on what they need to buff when (depending on the classes present or even between fights) and on who will buff it. That leaves them with a clear idea of what they need to buff when, and whose job it is. I.E, I used to be in a guild in Wrath that would have the Holy Pally on Wisdom, and the Ret pally on Kings - with a Warrior shout for AP. If we had 3 paladins, or two of equal spec then specmates would /w each other and decide who'd take what.

Another suggestion: Identify content that should be immensely challenging in a 2-5-man context. TBC raids, Wrath Raids. Fights with a lot of AoE (10 man Grobbulus jumps to mind for me) are what you need. And take a few players there to learn the fight for a bit.

[Deleted]

if your not willing to leave your guild, then have a word with your GM about the Class Leaders, because there obviously not helping there classes out in any way at all, Try posting some tactic video's on your forums and make sure people watch them, or read them and understand that raiding requires a disciplined mind set. As you have been in the military you know that you may not like doing something but it has to be done, and this is something that your raiders need to understand.

one option is to run 1 10 man team for a week and simply switch out people who fail to traps / spiderlings dps etc. People dont like getting replaced and if they see that it is an option then they will start to shape up. failing that your going to have to put people on warning that unless they get there shit together that your not going to get stuff killed, and you will start having to recruit more people and dropping people from the raid spots for those that can stay out of the fire.

[fainflinn]

]

... Did you hear the issues the OP arose? I got 10 bucks on 90% of his 10 man clicking and keyboard turning.

People still play with keyboards?

[Glyphtics]

I've got two pieces of advice:

A) Yell at them until they get it
B) Replace them

You can't train raid awareness, if people are screwing up because of standing in shit, and they can't understand or learn mechanics on Shannox or Beth'tilac, they need to go back to t11 content or learn how to raid.

In regards to everything else, you need to tell the raiders to learn how to play their class. It's simple shit, and if they can't put the effort into doing simple things, you shouldn't put the effort into giving them a raid spot

[pionock]

Well I agree with most people saying about keybinds. That will help alot since they won't have to look at their action bars alot. Another that can help are addons like TellMeWhen and PowerAuras/WeakAuras, so they can see procs and DoT timers and cooldowns without having to look at their bars.

Next thing to work on is to have every raid member look at the encounters and make sure they know everything that can happen. When you're learning an encounter, don't be focused on dps until you can successfully avoid shit. Your dps will get better as you get more adept at seeing all things that can go on during a fight.

[CrossKeeper]

Thank you for inputs so far.

I have posted 10man guides on the forums to try and help, but with only 17 views of that post I know that all three groups are not watching.

The pally buffing is really only one player and I am trying to teach him. Just to be more specific he was the only pally and we had a druid and he kept putting up kings.

I do like the idea of the 2-5 man groups and old content. I will have to try that out. I did use Keal in TK to help some of my guildies understand LOS and timming better by doing 3 man TK runs.

I also like the idea about rewarding not messing up. I will have to think about how to present that.

I am getting ready to write a post on the guild site about raid awareness and I have the GM backing me up that he will start kicking people from raid spots if they don't read forums/watch videos/continue to fail at basics.

EDIT-----I posted the videos 3 weeks ago.

[Deleted]

Leave your guild, unless you're willing to spend weeks teaching people things they should have learnt themselves.

[Exoblade]

I agree with the other posts here that some addons do help ( dbm, dot timers) as well as good keybinds. But really you can't teach raid awareness aka a good raider.

The reason people fail to standing in stuff is because A: they are not paying attention or B: they are average to below average at there class , so they focus more on rotation etc etc and tunnel.

[pocky_rin]

If they are used to behaving this way but still killing the bosses you'll have to start giving out to them, and letting them know that if it's the same person every single time that they'll get docked dkp or be replaced. (either temporarily replaced with a standby or for good)
Orrrr you could get the individual crap people with a hunter and got by the training dummies, get them to attack the dummies whilst the hunter constantly fires down traps and flares that they have to move from whilst still dpsing the one target lol

[Xxero2k13]

It sounds like you are playing with a lot of new players. Anybody who is new to wow or new to any mmo is going to have trouble being aware of everythimg that is going on. Players really cant wake up the next day and suddenly be great at the game. It takes time. The players you are with obviously need more practice and experience

[Deleted]

Bliz need to make quests and dungeons while leveling actually teach people to play.

Dungeons used to be a great place for new players, or people leveling a new class, to learn thier class and the concept of teamwork.

Nothing in the game provides such a learning experience except for actually raiding now.



As for OP's problem, Change guild.

[eternalwhitemoon]

I'm having this same problem with a few raiders in my G2. Unfortunately, they play key roles such as tank and healer. /facepalm

I like what Aragniel had to say. I think I'll try that.

[Dembai]

I had this issue as a raid leader in TBC (no seriously, new people could NOT deal in Kara, it was WAY too much info for their tiny brains)...and I trained them in MC.

I'd say for these raiders, considering their weakness is ground-related, I'd take them into Ulduar, and make them wipe a few times on Hardmode Flame Leviathan with no gear on.

They're not losing any money that way - and sure as hell, they're going to start picking up how to move and pay attention to their surroundings. The damage and health of your vehicle scales DIRECTLY with gear. No gear = OMGWTFGONNADIE.

I'd also make them do hardmodes in ICC, achievements in Naxx (like Safety Dance), hardmodes in Ulduar (such as council and Mimiron), and any fight you can think of that involves lots of crap on the ground that you have to avoid.

Oh, and Black Temple, Supermus...which apparently can still kill people who have zero situational awareness (like a certain healer in my guild).

[Deleted]

i dont think it can really be taught to someone.

it's something you learn yourself, the problem is some people just never pick it up.

we have people who get caught in tornados on alysrazor every single time, they always tend to make up excuses "i was lagging" "i dc'd" "my screen froze" "i'm new to this boss"
we had a hunter we had to assign a healing team to just because they always died in tornados and they still died, their excuse was " this is only my second time on this boss" and by second time they meant second night of wiping on the boss.
a chunk of our raid team only ever died once to tornados and that was the first ever attempt, even then a few people didnt die even on the first try.

but we have a group of 5-7 people who die nearly every attempt on them, these people always tend to be the ones who die to standing in fire, or usually the ones who wipe raids due to not knowing what they are actually meant to be doing. "i didn't know there was a debuff on majordomo" well thats funny because we explained it 4 times before we started.

generally they are just lazy and think by having nice dps they can get by and alot of raid teams will let them.


the only way ive ever seen people imporve on this is by people learning to tank, something about tanking teaches about raid awareness, healing also teaches a bit of raid awareness.


but i wouldn't keep your hopes up on these people, in my own personal experience i see very few of these sorts of people actually ever improve.

just give them an ultimatum, they either get better or they no longer get taken to raids.