Dragon Ball Z Fan Thread!

[GennGreymane]

I disagree completely. If it happened at another point in time, it would have been fine. Now it was going from defeating a galactic overlord, to defeating someone from pre-DBZ.

It went from Goku! defeating a galactic overlord, to piccolo, krillin, and gohan fighting a pre saiyan villain. Garlic also had a logical power boost that they kept consistent and fucked him over in the end. lives forever.... stuck in dead zone.

[Turin]

It went from Goku! defeating a galactic overlord, to piccolo, krillin, and gohan fighting a pre saiyan villain. Garlic also had a logical power boost that they kept consistent and fucked him over in the end. lives forever.... stuck in dead zone.

True, it was Goku that beat the final form. But Piccolo was atleast an equal to the second form. And the power boost came from that moon/planet alignement, right?
To me, it doesn't sound plausible to go from weaker than Raditz to an equal of Frieza's second form. That's a power boost greater than I'm willing to accept.
Of course, the immortal thing is a handy gimmick.

[Master Guns]

Did you guys know that the Otherworld Saga at the end of DBZ is completely filler? Pikkon, the tournament, all of wasn't in the manga. Just Toei filler.

And yeah, Garlic Jr. Saga was great. Really wished it was in the Manga.

Here is my Dragonball Z collection

http://imageshack.com/a/img59/1589/jj9z.jpg

[Zoma]

Otherworld was my favourite filler, although it bothered me that there was only a handful of people who were actually strong. The most powerful heroes of the entire universe who had ever existed, and only one was strong enough to make Goku go Super Saiyan. And then during the Buu arc, even Yamcha was able to beat the guy who was considered 3rd behind Goku and Pikkon.

[GennGreymane]

I loved the other world filler.....

WHO THE FUCK KILLED PIKKON! I mean based on the rest of the heros.... they were not that strong... Pikkon likely died near his original strength.... WHO KILLED HIM!

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If I wrote DBZ

[OrcsRLame]

True, it was Goku that beat the final form. But Piccolo was atleast an equal to the second form. And the power boost came from that moon/planet alignement, right?
To me, it doesn't sound plausible to go from weaker than Raditz to an equal of Frieza's second form. That's a power boost greater than I'm willing to accept.
Of course, the immortal thing is a handy gimmick.

Well, it wasn't planetary alignment, it was proximity to his home planet, the Makyo star. In the Dead Zone movie, the Makyo star wasn't even in the same solar system as Earth as far as we know. Considering it's literally his power source and it was pretty much orbiting the Earth, it doesn't surprise me one bit.

[Zoma]

I loved the other world filler.....

WHO THE FUCK KILLED PIKKON! I mean based on the rest of the heros.... they were not that strong... Pikkon likely died near his original strength.... WHO KILLED HIM!

We don't know how strong he was when he died. He could have been Raditz's level at the time of his death. Plus, there's also the possibility of natural death, such as a heart virus.

[GennGreymane]

We don't know how strong he was when he died. He could have been Raditz's level at the time of his death. Plus, there's also the possibility of natural death, such as a heart virus.

well based on how old some of those heros were and how weak they were...... I mean olibu was Gilgamesh and Hercules basically

[Zoma]

well based on how old some of those heros were and how weak they were...... I mean olibu was Gilgamesh and Hercules basically

For DBZ levels, Gilgamesh and Hercules aren't that strong. Probably around Nappa level, pre-Namek Vegeta at best. Obilu was around Cell level. That's an increase.

[Raptor With a Saber]

I like the look and feel of that Absalon cartoon but i think the creator is going a little nuts with super sayian levels and forms.

[Deleted]

For DBZ levels, Gilgamesh and Hercules aren't that strong. Probably around Nappa level, pre-Namek Vegeta at best. Obilu was around Cell level. That's an increase.

Why should Olibu be around Cell's Powerlevel? He is far far far far weaker than Goku and Pikkon who at this point are just a little bit above Cell.
I know there is the filler when Pikkon owns Cell with one hit, but for me this is either noncanon because of filler or villians simply get a lot weaker when they are sent to hell which would make sense because otherwise every villian at or above Freezas level would just say "fu hell i'm out of here".
He even gets owned by Yamcha who pretty sure isn't even at the level of a Cell Saga SSJ1 at the end of DBZ.

For me its a little bit disappointing too that there are so weak heroes in Otherworld... maybe the real powerful ones are simply still living?
Pikkon is the only one on a "big player" level along with Goku. How he died? Maybe he got owned by a God like Bils / Wiss. Or he sacrificed himself for something.

[Zoma]

Why should Olibu be around Cell's Powerlevel? He is far far far far weaker than Goku and Pikkon who at this point are just a little bit above Cell.
I know there is the filler when Pikkon owns Cell with one hit, but for me this is either noncanon because of filler

Technically, everything Pikkon and Olibu do is non-canon. Neither of them are manga characters. The reason I put Olibu at Cell level is because it required more effort for Pikkon to beat Obilu than it did to beat Cell and the rest.

[Turin]

Oh, something I've been wondering. Is Otherworld a place you stay eternally? We never saw any saiyans (neither in Hell nor whatever the rest of that place is called) or anything there. Might that super saiyan of old still be there? Or do you disappear after a certain amount of time?

[Deleted]

Technically, everything Pikkon and Olibu do is non-canon. Neither of them are manga characters. The reason I put Olibu at Cell level is because it required more effort for Pikkon to beat Obilu than it did to beat Cell and the rest.

In the end i think that villians really become a lot weaker in hell... like i said otherwise they would just kill all overseers and conquer otherworld.

The Super Saiyans of the past most likely weren't allowed to keep their body in otherworld because they weren't heroes. Iirc even Vegeta wasn't allowed to keep his body and only got it back because the Kais wanted him to fight Buu. So you either are a true Hero and keep your body, or aren't and only your Soul goes to otherworld. So maybe the most powerful beings were neither Hero nor Villian and simply lost their body and went to "Heaven" or what its called there.
A little bit strange though that Villians are allowed to keep their body... maybe for eternal torture who knows

[Deleted]

In the end i think that villians really become a lot weaker in hell... like i said otherwise they would just kill all overseers and conquer otherworld.

But if I remember correctly, Frieza and Cell do beat the hell (lol) out of the guards there. Then Goku and Pikkon show up and throw them in some sort of magical powered jail.

[AndyF1069]

On the argument of power levels, I think all of dbz would make more sense if Goku and Frieza's power levels were at 12,000,000 and 15,000,000 instead of 120,000,000 and 150,000,000. It would still put them gigantically ahead of all of the other characters at that point but make the progression rates more linear throughout the story instead of gigantic bumps. All the future enemies would obviously be weaker than they ordinarily were, but to the same extent as Goku. You could even think of it as a power level squish in the same sense as an item level squish on WoW.

As for otherworld, I think the general idea is that those who are purely good and did significant things in their lifetime keep their bodies and go to the "planet" of otherworld, those who are purely evil and did significant things keep their bodies, but go to hell. Those inbetween don't keep their bodies and go to neither place. The fighters in otherworld had also been there for several millennia, pikkon would most likely have died of natural causes. You don't have to die a heroes death to go there (under my line of thinking), being a hero is in itself, enough.

[rad586]

Oh, something I've been wondering. Is Otherworld a place you stay eternally? We never saw any saiyans (neither in Hell nor whatever the rest of that place is called) or anything there. Might that super saiyan of old still be there? Or do you disappear after a certain amount of time?

If I good remember, they've mentioned it at one point that souls from hell reincarnate after some time, altough I don't recall which episode/chapter that was. I have a vague feeling it was about the time they were going to send Vegeta back to the living world during Buu saga - that the souls get their memory wiped out after some time and sent to reincarnate. There are exceptions like Buu's soul who got instantly his memory wiped out and reincarnated.
No clue about souls in heaven.

[OrcsRLame]

On the argument of power levels, I think all of dbz would make more sense if Goku and Frieza's power levels were at 12,000,000 and 15,000,000 instead of 120,000,000 and 150,000,000. It would still put them gigantically ahead of all of the other characters at that point but make the progression rates more linear throughout the story instead of gigantic bumps. All the future enemies would obviously be weaker than they ordinarily were, but to the same extent as Goku. You could even think of it as a power level squish in the same sense as an item level squish on WoW.

As for otherworld, I think the general idea is that those who are purely good and did significant things in their lifetime keep their bodies and go to the "planet" of otherworld, those who are purely evil and did significant things keep their bodies, but go to hell. Those inbetween don't keep their bodies and go to neither place. The fighters in otherworld had also been there for several millennia, pikkon would most likely have died of natural causes. You don't have to die a heroes death to go there (under my line of thinking), being a hero is in itself, enough.

But they're not, just so that's clear. Those bad video game "translations" have caused quite a few misunderstandings in the past.

And I don't see how it would make DBZ make more sense. For one, power levels are never mentioned in the series past Frieza stating that his second form is over 1 million, so the theoretical numbers are irrelevant in that sense, since we can't know the specifics past the Frieza saga power levels, most of which come from data books. It would also be silly if their power levels were only 12 and 15 million, as that would make Super Saiyan only an increase of x5, instead of the x50 that it actually is. That's important because Goku would have one shotted Frieza with the Kaio-ken x20, since his base power level was 3 million. It'd be downright stupid if the Kaio-ken was 4 times stronger than SS1, and if you lowered their power levels further to account for that, then Piccolo would have cleaned house, so then you'd have to lower his power level etc. Basically, it would require dividing everyone's power level by 10, which serves no purpose other than to lower a number that only has meaning based on the context of what we see.

[AndyF1069]

Keep in mind that what I posted was a thought, not a demand.

I hesitated on if I would mention the kaio ken in my post or not since I was well aware of the 20x aspect. Naturally, the kaio ken would need to be adjusted under my idea. During the fights with the sayians on earth, goku never goes above 4 and his body gets annihilated in the process. People like to state about things being canon or non canon based on the tiniest details, I don't have access to the manga so I don't know if 20x kaio ken is "canon" or not. If it is, fine.

If it isn't, then it's easy enough to imagine that the much stronger goku was capable of handling a 4x kaio ken on namek without destroying his body, but still under huge amounts of stress. ss1 is a 5x increase (20% more than 4x kaio ken). ss1 whilst being more powerful, is also less stressful on the body (but not easy to maintain in it's newly unlocked form anyway).

Your signature and the mentions earlier of how people argue about power levels on forums is what prompted my thoughts to begin with. What does lowering the numbers gain? Nothing at all. Would it improve arguments? Nope, people would still debate regardless. My thought process is simply that a liner progression seems better than massive jumps every few years. The androids would still be x% stronger than everyone, but it wouldn't be a gigantic percent increase over the likes of frieza. Imagine the androids have a power level of 20 million whilst goku is at 15 and frieza is at 12 (I know you corrected me, I'm not stating my numbers as fact). The androids are still going to dominate everybody, but the gap is closer than if it were 120 million, 150 million and 300 million (random number).

Also, (serious question, not a cheap shot), how do you come to the conclusion that goku's base power level was 3,000,000? Is it publically stated in the super awesome guide? (forgot the name despite it being mentioned in this thread several times :<).

[Turin]

Keep in mind that what I posted was a thought, not a demand.

I hesitated on if I would mention the kaio ken in my post or not since I was well aware of the 20x aspect. Naturally, the kaio ken would need to be adjusted under my idea. During the fights with the sayians on earth, goku never goes above 4 and his body gets annihilated in the process. People like to state about things being canon or non canon based on the tiniest details, I don't have access to the manga so I don't know if 20x kaio ken is "canon" or not. If it is, fine.

If it isn't, then it's easy enough to imagine that the much stronger goku was capable of handling a 4x kaio ken on namek without destroying his body, but still under huge amounts of stress. ss1 is a 5x increase (20% more than 4x kaio ken). ss1 whilst being more powerful, is also less stressful on the body (but not easy to maintain in it's newly unlocked form anyway).

Your signature and the mentions earlier of how people argue about power levels on forums is what prompted my thoughts to begin with. What does lowering the numbers gain? Nothing at all. Would it improve arguments? Nope, people would still debate regardless. My thought process is simply that a liner progression seems better than massive jumps every few years. The androids would still be x% stronger than everyone, but it wouldn't be a gigantic percent increase over the likes of frieza. Imagine the androids have a power level of 20 million whilst goku is at 15 and frieza is at 12 (I know you corrected me, I'm not stating my numbers as fact). The androids are still going to dominate everybody, but the gap is closer than if it were 120 million, 150 million and 300 million (random number).

Also, (serious question, not a cheap shot), how do you come to the conclusion that goku's base power level was 3,000,000? Is it publically stated in the super awesome guide? (forgot the name despite it being mentioned in this thread several times :<).

I don't know if it's stated but you can easily calculate it. Iirc Goku's Kaio ken x20 was equal to Frieza 50%. Frieza was stated as 120 million full power, so 50% is 60 million. 20 x 3 million = 60 million