Dragon Ball Z Fan Thread!

[Golden Yak]

vegeta already has ultra instinct. there you heard it here first. so feel free to hate and then i will reply when it is revealed.

You're worse than Hitler.

[AndyF1069]

He wouldn't have been shocked at Gokus sudden burst against Jiren, nor would he have demanded to know what happened when Goku got blasted away by Jiren.

[Selastan]

The problem with the potara is that it cannot keep 2 mortal bodies together with that insane power. Assuming Kefla in True Legendary Super Saiyan might be on par with blue Vegito then it won't last long. It'llstill probably last for 3-4 episodes because a few minutes equals a few episodes in DB time.

I don't think any fighter we have seen so far is on par with Blue Vegito. Including Gods or even Angels.

[Adramalech]

I don't think any fighter we have seen so far is on par with Blue Vegito. Including Gods or even Angels.

I wouldn't say Angels, since it seems these guys are on a whole different tier. But I'm sure Vegito Blue would wipe the floor with any God of Destruction or Jiren.

For about 5 minutes and then he defuses lol.

[GennGreymane]

[Selastan]

Master Roshi IS the list.

[Vestig3]

vegeta already has ultra instinct. there you heard it here first. so feel free to hate and then i will reply when it is revealed.

Maybe somewhere in the near future but not before goku has learned to controll it and master it thats how the cycle goes.

[kaelix1]

With each episode i lose the exciment i had for this tournament, at this point why even bother to recruit 11 fighters If they keep focus on the same 2 characters from u7, no characters development from other u7 fighters, toriyama keep wank Goku and vegeta, If your plan is to milk the frenchize as much as posible, don't hype other characters,where is Gohan and piccolo, i don't know why i have the felling piccolo will be next to get eliminate without a power up or character development while vegeta is wank with each ocasion

[AndyF1069]

No character development?

Roshi didn't lose his obsession with women for a noble cause, eliminate a ton of fighters, put up a fight against the impossibly stronger than him Frost and earn the respect of his God of Destruction?

Tien isn't training a new generation of martial artists?

Gohan didn't rediscover his mystic form and have a chance to show off his brains during combat?

Krillin didn't steal the show in the opening of the tournament?

Android 17 hasn't been a bad ass who is as straight to the point as he ever was and really getting to shine?

Buu didn't get motivated by a good fight so much that he developed a fighting body?

Frieza hasn't been as manipulative as ever and leaving us guessing every time we see him as to his goals and intentions?

Oh and at some point Goku learned ultra instinct.

Poor Vegeta, the only thing he did was prove that family comes ahead of fighting for him at this stage of his life. The same guy who didn't give a shit when the androids almost killed his wife and infant child years prior.

Man, the lack of development across an entire saga that is closer to the end than the beginning is the absolute worst!

[kaelix1]

Wow,thats character development for You?? I quess If buu shit is not pink we can call it character development?? Except vegeta everything is the same shit

[Dontrike]

With each episode i lose the exciment i had for this tournament, at this point why even bother to recruit 11 fighters If they keep focus on the same 2 characters from u7, no characters development from other u7 fighters, toriyama keep wank Goku and vegeta, If your plan is to milk the frenchize as much as posible, don't hype other characters,where is Gohan and piccolo, i don't know why i have the felling piccolo will be next to get eliminate without a power up or character development while vegeta is wank with each ocasion

Can't say I agree with everything you said, but I will agree that this arc has been far more boring than I thought it would be. Perhaps it was the general hype to see other characters, that are not Saiyans mostly, do things, which we did get, but it has been a gross amount of focus on Goku, so much so that the pacing of this arc is worse than Goku vs. Freiza on Namek. I don't necessarily mean each episode being a couple minutes, that's stupid and I don't have time for it, but that because the show is only focused on Goku and barely any other characters it feels even worse in the pacing department. Had we seen multiple fights going on at one time during these one or two minute long stretches of time we could believe this is all going on in ~45 minutes, but instead because we focus too much on Goku it becomes an even bigger detriment than to "5 minutes until Namek explodes" scenario. All of this could have been fixed by changing some numbers where instead of ~45 minutes it could be 2-3 hours, which could fix the unbelievability of characters resting for a few minutes and suddenly being at full strength again. We don't see them for upwards of 2 hours of screen time, but it's only been 5 minutes and suddenly they feel fresh as the dickens and up kicking ass again.

Outside of pacing the other big issue is upkeep. I still don't know who's in the tournament as no way 80 characters have been knocked out yet, and I couldn't even tell you what most of the god's names are, their team, the names of the member's of those teams (that aren't U6 or U7, or a few on the Pride Troopers), who knocked out who, and I have no idea which universes are still around. They have only done ONE catch up this entire tournament, and even that was done pretty badly. If One Piece can tell me where all the characters are on any given island/continent and what's going on by a simple picture of a map and a minute long gist then Super could be doing the same right now.

Now as for the character development, we have seen a little improvement, but I will agree there hasn't been much.

In the end this arc has been some of the worst War/Tournament scenarios I've seen. One Piece had a similar free for all style tournament, and while it wasn't perfect, it was still better than what we're seeing here and the characters were far more memorable.

No character development?

Roshi didn't lose his obsession with women for a noble cause, eliminate a ton of fighters, put up a fight against the impossibly stronger than him Frost and earn the respect of his God of Destruction?

This is true, although Roshi did succumb to one person, although that one really shouldn't have seduced which she didn't want touching her. Plus that was a bad ass moment with him about to sacrifice himself, even if they sort of rehashed it a few episodes later with him and Vegeta, which was kind of lame.

Tien isn't training a new generation of martial artists?

Him having a job doesn't necessarily count as character development, especially because he did close to nothing this whole arc and was seen about as much.

Gohan didn't rediscover his mystic form and have a chance to show off his brains during combat?

But that's just a rehash of the beginning to the Buu saga, where he was rediscovering his ability for a tournament. We've already been through this with Gohan, that's not new. While this was seen as early as Return of F with him struggling with being weak, it's still runs along with what we've seen before.

Krillin didn't steal the show in the opening of the tournament?

While him doing that was indeed bad ass and a breath of fresh air, that's not anything new for Krillin. He was always one for training to try and help his friends and allies during battle, even if he knew he could easily die. That has always been his character, so I wouldn't call it new for this arc. The reason why it feels new is that he took a break for a number of years off for love and family, much in the same way Gohan has done.

Android 17 hasn't been a bad ass who is as straight to the point as he ever was and really getting to shine?

That's his character. He's always been one to be straight to the point, the more serious of the siblings, he wants to get things done. Then again it probably feels like character development since this is the first time we've seen him in a couple decades.

Buu didn't get motivated by a good fight so much that he developed a fighting body?

This is true. A shame he was forced out of the tournament. Still wondering why they didn't consider using the dragonballs to wake him though or even Whys to move forward time until he was awake.

Frieza hasn't been as manipulative as ever and leaving us guessing every time we see him as to his goals and intentions?

We were guessing? It was pretty obvious that he wasn't switching sides nor is he going to betray anyone. He's too smart and knows if he does any of that he can't be brought back to life, get revenge on Goku, nor become stronger than the gods. Even if he did "switch teams" it doesn't matter because as soon as his universe loses he's erased, and it doesn't matter if he says "I'm party of Universe X" because he is erased no matter what. Also, him being manipulating isn't new, that's what he does considering he's an evil dude. The reason he heals Goku a tad is because he knows that he has no chance against Jiren.

Oh and at some point Goku learned ultra instinct.

New powers can be character development, if they are gained in the ways Goku, Gohan, or Vegeta did originally with Super Siayan, but not when they're just handed to the character by them falling into, what can only be described as, a black hole and absorbing the energy of 9 people from the Spirit Bomb that caused it. The only reason he gets Ultra Instinct is all of that power practically unlocked it rather than through his usual effort and training. There wasn't really a scenario he could unlock it in this arc that would have been through his own ability, and really the new power up could easily just have been Super Saiyan God 2, or Gohan using Mystic with Super Saiyan, or multiple different fusions.

Poor Vegeta, the only thing he did was prove that family comes ahead of fighting for him at this stage of his life. The same guy who didn't give a shit when the androids almost killed his wife and infant child years prior.

While Vegeta has grown in that way, and that is real character development, that didn't happen in this arc but from the beginning of Super, which is what the poster you replied to said. This arc.

[AndyF1069]

Character development and character presence can be intertwined. If the complaint is that this is the Goku and Vegeta show, then I will use the considerable screen time that everyone has gotten to counter that. Krillin and the androids fall under this. The fact we are seeing 17 at all when he has been gone for so long, I would argue could be considered development. We see his love of nature and of his family. We didn't know this in Z. Now we do. Krillin got to shine whereas we are used to him being cannon fodder. You can argue that it isn't development, but don't in the same argument suggest that this is (at this present time) the Vegeta and Goku show. The story is definitely guilty of focusing on them too much, but in this saga EVERYONE has had their fair share of screen time. Having the most recent episodes focus on Goku does not detract from the last three months of story telling.

I stretched a bit with Tien.

Gohan becoming weak from not committing to his training is his character development. Gohan getting his ass handed to him by Frieza when Goku wasn't around to save the day led to him training with Piccolo, as referenced during the Future Trunks arc. The universe being at risk pushed Gohan to rediscover the form that he had during the buu saga. Up until then, not even the fight with Frieza had pushed him to it. This is development.

Ultra Instinct is the next stage in Gokus story. This is where he is heading, and where Vegeta is likely heading. He is reaching his goal. You may not like the means, but it is development. It has changed how he is perceived in the story and will impact future fights.

Vegeta refused to fight in the tournament until Bra/Bulla was born (which was this saga). He put his unborn child ahead of a fight with strong foes. That is continuation of the evolution of Vegeta.

[TheFirstOnes]

With each episode i lose the exciment i had for this tournament, at this point why even bother to recruit 11 fighters If they keep focus on the same 2 characters from u7, no characters development from other u7 fighters, toriyama keep wank Goku and vegeta, If your plan is to milk the frenchize as much as posible, don't hype other characters,where is Gohan and piccolo, i don't know why i have the felling piccolo will be next to get eliminate without a power up or character development while vegeta is wank with each ocasion

I'm starting to have this feeling....

And this feeling is....

Well...

I think you're actually watching Dragon Ball Super...

Like, at all...

[DemonHunter18]

ToP arc was definitely a bit boring.

there were some really good episode like Roshi ones, Hit, Goku vs Jiren.

but that was it.

IMO, Vegeta vs Toppo and Gohan and Piccolo vs Namekians would fix that BIG time.

Goku needs to one shot Kefla so we can move on.

[MAGAmobile]

This arc just needs to end, really. Probably the most boring tournament arc I can remember in the franchise, with the pre-Buu one a distant second.

[Skorpionss]

I think it would have been a lot better had it been a regular elimination based 1v1 tournament instead of a battle royale...

[Moralgy]

I think it would have been a lot better had it been a regular elimination based 1v1 tournament instead of a battle royale...

^^^

It just ended up being 1v1s with like 100 people instead of any real "group" stuff, so why bother with the battle royale arc honestly. I've enjoyed a bit of it personally, UA, kale and Caulifala, and frieza quips, but overall its just a drag. Most of the characters are flat out useless, even on U7, so why bother with this stuff. Even from a plot standpoint, its kinda silly since the two Zen-ohs barely keep up with a single fight as it is.

[DemonHunter18]

^^^

It just ended up being 1v1s with like 100 people instead of any real "group" stuff, so why bother with the battle royale arc honestly. I've enjoyed a bit of it personally, UA, kale and Caulifala, and frieza quips, but overall its just a drag. Most of the characters are flat out useless, even on U7, so why bother with this stuff. Even from a plot standpoint, its kinda silly since the two Zen-ohs barely keep up with a single fight as it is.

yeah, mostly this.

ToP should have started in, like, 5 years.

long enough for them to train.

I'm tired of Time Chamber.

[Selastan]

"Hey, what are you listening to?"

"Here, take an earbud, listen for yourself!"

*becomes the most powerful being on earth*

[Vestig3]

So hyped up for 116, goku is finaly gonna unleash some of his power while in UI