Mage dps help

[mikabob]

Hello.

Nowdays im mostly playing my elemental/restoshaman oh hordeside, but have been goofing of on allyside on my mage.
Problem is, after beeing a die-hard frost for many years... i have finally caved in and tried arcane. Arcane used to be as dull as watching paint dry as far as i can remeber, but feels pretty ok now. Still i cant get over the control/kiting-awsomeness of frost, but im ok with arcane for 5mans the least...

Thing is, i cant seem to get the dps up... and its bothering me, it could be a gearissue maby (since in compairing to my shaman who is raidgeared). I´m pretty stuck between 10-13 k dps... and it just feels low... i feel like im missing something vital..


http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...imzum/advanced


any tips or pointers ?

[crzydvd]

For starters, your haste is in the dumps. you only have roughly 7% on your stat sheet,and 17% crit. The goal is to aim for 13% haste and a 5% haste buff from a raid environment (boomkin, spriest, shaman with windfury totem up) so that you reach 18% haste raid buffed.

A few Mages will have different opinions on haste vs crit, but most will agree that there is a haste plateau (above mentioned) that you should seek to reach as well as prioritize mastery as you highest secondary stat after hit. I personally optimize my stats as such listed below.

I value my stats like this.
Intellect, the main source of our spell power and our mana and some small amount of crit.
Then hit, as it is essential for us to not miss.
Mastery, is essentially a increased percentage to our damage per spell for percentage of unspent mana. Meaning if we float at 85% mana, with lower mastery our damage receives a smaller damage bonus per spell strike. The higher, the better without sacrificing int or going too far below hit cap
Haste, reach the plateau and crank out those arcane blasts faster as well as tremendously shrik the time between each spell strike.
Lastly, critical: Its a great stat and many mages will argue that it takes a higher priority after you reach your haste plateau. I agree to some extent, but the arguments are valid.

My Mage is Hirøshi of Laughing Skull US. Its not informative now, because I'm in pvp gear and spec, but otherwise my stats are roughly as follows. Spell Power, roughly over eight-thousand with self buff. Critical strike is roughly 16-17%. haste is 14.50% roughly. My damage gained from my mastery at 100% mana is almost 27%. so at roughly 85-90% mana I have an additional 25% extra damage from each spell I cast.

The pve Gear I usually roll with comes out to a 375 ilvl equipped, I know it's a bit more than the character's gear you provided the link for, but even a lower geared mage should be pulled on average 15-18k with an equal amount of gear and proper stat management.

Asside from, "fix your stats up" all I can say is try to do a bit more research on your class. Hope this helps.

~Hirøshi

[MisterSoup]

In addition to what was said about stat weights above me, it's also very beneficial to know how to maximize both your Burn and your Conserve phases of DPS. I know a lot of people think that Arcane is faceroll, and you just sit there spamming one button all day. These people are flat-out wrong.

Here's some pointers on how you should approach each phase:

Burn Phase

This is your all-out DPS phase. You'll do this at the beginning of a fight (EDIT: You won't always do this at the beginning of a fight, but usually you will want to. As always, make sure to watch your threat.), or whenever Evocation is off of cooldown.

-Start by casting Arcane Blast until you're at the point where consuming a mana gem would give you 100% mana again.
-Eat your Mana Gem.
-Blow EVERYTHING. Arcane Power, trinkets, Mirror Image... whatever. Use it all.
-Chain-cast Arcane blast repeatedly for as long as you can. If you need to move for any reason, using PoM to keep up your AB stacks is very wise.
-At 35% mana, stop casting, and use Evocation.
-Enter Conserve Phase

Conserve Phase

During this phase, the goal is to use as little mana as you possibly can while still dishing out as much damage as possible.

-There is no set-in-stone way to do this properly; your gearing, buffs, stats, etc. will all determine which spell order is the best to keep your mana as high as possible. I recommend spending a bit of time on a dummy figuring out what may be the right thing to do. Shoot for keeping 99%, but don't expect to.
-Using Arcane Missiles during this phase is lovely, as it has zero mana cost, and this makes it a very strong choice when trying to save mana.
-As soon as Evocation, Arcane Power and any on-use trinkets/etc. are off of cooldown, enter the Burn Phase again.

[crzydvd]

Mistersoup speaks the truth. Sorry I forgot to comment on those particular details, I focused on the physical traits of the character present. I probably should have remembered the harder parts of being a mage. I guess they're more second nature to me that I forget to mention that its just as essential to mold that to a fine point as well as the gear.

Thanks for covering my slack soup.

~Hirøshi

[MisterSoup]

@crzydvd:

S'all good, man. You can't pull off the cast sequence properly with bum gear, and all the gear in the world won't help if you're using a bum cast sequence. It's all important :P

[jmmathe1988]

I disagree with all of you http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...emage/advanced

I have very little haste and I do 22 - 25k single target in heroics at 365... Its INTEL > 17% HIT > MASTERY > CRIT > HASTE ... its all in knowing WTF your doing, when to use CDs and when not to...visit noxxic.com, idk where people keep getting this weird shit in there head about dicking with the stat priority...trust me you don't need haste both our core mages have under 9% haste and do 27 - 29k single target at item lvls 373 and 376

Let me explain it this way, if I run down a street and finish in 3min and then hit nitro and finish in 2min I didn't increase the run or shorten the run just got it done quicker..

SO by having high haste and sacrificing mastery and crit you are messing with the stat priorty, which is wrong...high mastery increase the dmg I do with unspent mana, and crit makes for double dmg numbers...where as haste just gets the dmg out quicker!

SO I could have a mage doing 30k dps but only doing 2million on the output, where'as a mage pulling 27k with a dmg output of 2.8million ... haste just gets things out quicker like I said above, only ups your dps and not your dmg output which is what you want...going with high mastery followed by crit will yeld better results, as AB hits much harder as a crit not to mention bring mana back

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...itrak/advanced <<< MEMEBER of Enigma, best guild on my server and world ranking of 31...9.88% haste

[Zornin]

Mistersoup's post is very good advice to boost dps.

One tip for AoE: don't forget that Arcane Explosion benefits from stacks of Arcane Blast. For AoE, I usually cast AE 3 times before casting another AB to refresh the stacks.

And you don't need 17% hit for heroics. Raids, yes; heroics, no.

[MisterSoup]

Your DPS on heroics means nothing, as you're almost always on "bust phase" for the entirety of the battle, and the fights are short-lived.

The reason we get these "crazy ideas" in our heads is because of math. Mathematically, these are the tactics used to obtain the highest damage done over the course of a raid boss encounter.

Also, flaming posters for providing proven, logical input is downright sad.

[crzydvd]

Reply to jmmathe1988:

You realize that armory doesn't show that he also has 3% haste from talents? or that hes a goblin and stats would show that he would gain a teensy bit more spell speed? my armory page says I have 10.40% haste, but in game, with talents and goblin racials, I have 14% almost 15%. All you need is 13% and hes already got it by the talents and the racial. all you need to stack gear wise is roughly 9% on your own. Yes your statements are correct, but so are ours.

Hes already reached his haste plateau and he doesn't need to worry about haste anymore, meaning crit is his next beneficial stat. Haste looses a lot of function passed 13% and the raid wide 5% buff (18% total)

[xStevooo]

I disagree with all of you http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...emage/advanced

I have very little haste and I do 22 - 25k single target in heroics at 365... Its INTEL > 17% HIT > MASTERY > CRIT > HASTE ... its all in knowing WTF your doing, when to use CDs and when not to...visit noxxic.com, idk where people keep getting this weird shit in there head about dicking with the stat priority...trust me you don't need haste both our core mages have under 9% haste and do 27 - 29k single target at item lvls 373 and 376

Let me explain it this way, if I run down a street and finish in 3min and then hit nitro and finish in 2min I didn't increase the run or shorten the run just got it done quicker..

SO by having high haste and sacrificing mastery and crit you are messing with the stat priorty, which is wrong...high mastery increase the dmg I do with unspent mana, and crit makes for double dmg numbers...where as haste just gets the dmg out quicker!

SO I could have a mage doing 30k dps but only doing 2million on the output, where'as a mage pulling 27k with a dmg output of 2.8million ... haste just gets things out quicker like I said above, only ups your dps and not your dmg output which is what you want...going with high mastery followed by crit will yeld better results, as AB hits much harder as a crit not to mention bring mana back

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...itrak/advanced <<< MEMEBER of Enigma, best guild on my server and world ranking of 31...9.88% haste

But you has bad gear and not even a 4 piece, noo cookies for you

[jmmathe1988]

I dont raid on this char bro, I have 10 85s...all 365 and higher...work 40hrs and manage a GF, not enough time to take multiple chars thru raids like I could in wotlk

[Pookstar]

I disagree with all of you http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...emage/advanced

I have very little haste and I do 22 - 25k single target in heroics at 365... Its INTEL > 17% HIT > MASTERY > CRIT > HASTE ... its all in knowing WTF your doing, when to use CDs and when not to...visit noxxic.com, idk where people keep getting this weird shit in there head about dicking with the stat priority...trust me you don't need haste both our core mages have under 9% haste and do 27 - 29k single target at item lvls 373 and 376

Let me explain it this way, if I run down a street and finish in 3min and then hit nitro and finish in 2min I didn't increase the run or shorten the run just got it done quicker..

SO by having high haste and sacrificing mastery and crit you are messing with the stat priorty, which is wrong...high mastery increase the dmg I do with unspent mana, and crit makes for double dmg numbers...where as haste just gets the dmg out quicker!

SO I could have a mage doing 30k dps but only doing 2million on the output, where'as a mage pulling 27k with a dmg output of 2.8million ... haste just gets things out quicker like I said above, only ups your dps and not your dmg output which is what you want...going with high mastery followed by crit will yeld better results, as AB hits much harder as a crit not to mention bring mana back

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...itrak/advanced <<< MEMEBER of Enigma, best guild on my server and world ranking of 31...9.88% haste

You realize your dps on encounters that last 2 minutes means nothing in comparison to the encounters that are lasting 5-10 mins. Your burn phase is lasting for a longer percentage of the overall encounter thus causing a dps inflation. I can do over 40k dps to bosses in heroics. Oh yay!

Truth of the matter is that haste allows you to get more casts in during your burn phase (with arcane power up) and overall more casts. Crit is completely RNG and although mastery is nice for arcane, hitting the soft cap is better for the shear number of extra arcane blasts you are connecting with over the course of the encounter.

The guys armory you linked has over 14% haste with talents and racial passive. That's not as far off as you BOLDED it to be.

Come to think of it, your logic makes no sense. If haste is getting the same amount of work done quicker, then given the same duration of the encounter, haste would do more overall damage.

Example: The encounter lasts 5 minutes. Mage A has the proper amount of haste and casts 200 arcane blasts in the 5 minute window. Mage B also has that 5 minute window but due to stacking mastery and crit and reforging away all his haste only connects with 175 arcane blasts. Now, per point of mastery you increase your damage done by up to 1.5%, starting at 12% but you only receive the full benefit at full mana. So let's say your arcane blast for simplicity does 10,000 base damage, you gain 1200 damage and an additional 150 damage per point. At full mana you will do 1350 more damage, that means you would need 58.8% mastery (unreachable) to do another 10,000 damage (ie casting another arcane blast).

Yes, it's about knowing what you're doing and experience with your class. That will outweigh any stat regardless. The fact is that secondary stats per point are all extremely close to one another that you may not even realize the results, but the Theoretical DPS a player can output is at it's highest when they use the proper stat priority which is Intellect >> Hit >> Haste (soft cap) > Mastery > Crit. It's not even up for debate so don't try to.

[jmmathe1988]

Intellect >> Hit >> Haste (soft cap) > Mastery > Crit. It's not even up for debate so don't try to....really,so why is this not posted anywhere then? last time I check EJ it was the way I linked it, same with noxxic...same with everywhere else, same as askmrrobot...everywhere, if it was that way then it would be prioritized that way...either way I was simply stating you dont need to worry about haste, it comes naturally with the gear unless your going around purposely choosing gear without it

[Pookstar]

Intellect >> Hit >> Haste (soft cap) > Mastery > Crit. It's not even up for debate so don't try to....really,so why is this not posted anywhere then? last time I check EJ it was the way I linked it, same with noxxic...same with everywhere else, same as askmrrobot...everywhere, if it was that way then it would be prioritized that way...either way I was simply stating you dont need to worry about haste, it comes naturally with the gear unless your going around purposely choosing gear without it

It's posted everywhere... not to mention Sim'ed out to be theoretical as well. This has been the truth since cata was released. The only difference now is that people are not using 4ptier11 which made haste soft cap a joke and people were "automatically" at it. Once gearing out of 4pt11 you lose 5% haste which causes you to pay a little more attention to your actual haste rating making sure you hit the cap.

Taken Directly from Elitist Jerks (a site you posted).

"Haste Cap
With the Patch 4.1 reduction in the AB cast time and given the levels of Haste present on current raid gear, it is now once again feasible to encounter the game mechanic of the Haste Cap; where under stacked spell haste conditions (such as Heroism/Bloodlust/Berserking) your AB cast time hits the 1 second GCD hard limit. Current analysis indicates that excess Haste be reforged to Hit or Mastery as required. Tools such as Rawr can calculate this for you if your appropriate raid buffs and spell haste effects are set correctly."

And noxxic is out dated.

[goulet goulet]

As an arcane mage haste is something you don't want to touch, intel>hit to cap>mastery>crit. Its pretty simple to figure out, as a arcane mage gets most of its damage from the mana, you want bigger hits further apart so your mana doesn't drain too quick. so more sp from mastery and more crits means more mana return.

as for rotation do your burn phase after you have stacked 4 ab's (so pop mana gem trinkets mirrors everything) and just ab till mana is about 30% then evoc and go into mana saving mode keeping yourself at around 80-90% mana until your c'ds are ready again then burn phase again. also if you find you have stuffed your mana by doing a few to many ab's in your mana saving mode chuck a flame orb at the boss and spam arcane missiles till your mana is back to the 90% range.

---------- Post added 2011-09-18 at 11:37 PM ----------

also milkabob, change your spec its pretty damn bad. 2 points in flame orb is bad move.

[Pookstar]

As an arcane mage haste is something you don't want to touch, intel>hit to cap>mastery>crit. Its pretty simple to figure out, as a arcane mage gets most of its damage from the mana, you want bigger hits further apart so your mana doesn't drain too quick. so more sp from mastery and more crits means more mana return.

as for rotation do your burn phase after you have stacked 4 ab's (so pop mana gem trinkets mirrors everything) and just ab till mana is about 30% then evoc and go into mana saving mode keeping yourself at around 80-90% mana until your c'ds are ready again then burn phase again. also if you find you have stuffed your mana by doing a few to many ab's in your mana saving mode chuck a flame orb at the boss and spam arcane missiles till your mana is back to the 90% range.

I hate you for not understanding anything about this game. Haste till soft cap, then mastery. Stop refusing to read or doing your own sim's and taking the wrong information from people that do the wrong things like you do, and then spreading it to the community thinking you are correct because this other bad mage said so.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Problem is, after beeing a die-hard frost for many years...

[...]

any tips or pointers ?

Link in sig. You don't have to go arcane, especially for 5 mans. Should you stay arc, there is a lot of advice in this thread that you should follow, but the option is there.

[Vibbard]

Drop fire power for 2/2 potency

stat priority is int>hit>>>mastery>crit>haste

Secondary stats are very similar so it doesn't really matter honestly... But you want to go for mastery usually

Besides your belt, just replace all your gems with +40 int

Going into fights, Arcane blast to 3 stacks, PoM into fourth, power/gem/trinkets/mirror image, AB to 30%, evo, AB4x, AM. The goal is to stay ~95% mana, but dropping to 85% doesn't kill you. Just stay below 95% because any mana regen that overflows is completely wasted. Anything you see about 1s casts during Bloodlust/Heroism is bullshit, that's a hardcap you don't want to pass, not something to strive for, so just get hitcapped and reforge to mastery.