Prot T13 set bonus discussion.

[Gallahadd]

Taken from the front page:
Protection, 2P -- Your Judgement ability now also grants a physical absorb shield equal to 30% of the damage it dealt.
Protection, 4P -- Reduces the cooldown of Divine Guardian by 60 sec and increases the radius of its effect by 70 yards.

personally I'll be grabbing that 2p ASAP... as for the 4pc though....myeh, maybe I'll be proved wrong... but that doesn't scream 'AMG MUST HAVE' in the same way that 4pc T12 does. I'll probably grab the two best itemized tier pieces and then get the rest from the offset stuff

[Wolfshowl]

4p bonus was the original cataclysm DG, which was good for...Nefarian p2, is the only one I can think of the huge radius benefitting. The cooldown wouldn't be bad, but it's still just reverting an old nerf without a hotfix. If not for visuals I'd look for non-set epics instead. In my personal opinion

[chris1554]

Just seems like they want all tanks to have a raid cd for the deathwing encounter or something along those lines.

[Seolla]

Unless there is some major mechanics that requires a raid cool down every 2mins instead of 3mins, the 4pc is totally crap, especially compared to other classes.

Not only that, but in terms of gameplay, it is also totally uninteresting. All the other tanks actually get something new to play around with, and all we get is a pre-nerf ability that existed since the beginning of the time.

[Eurytos]

2pc is bad. 30% of a weak hitting ability? and 4pc will be good if there is alot of aoe in Deathwing raid, which if you look at all tanking 4pc bonuses, it looks like there will be.

2pc makes me cry. and 4pc is situationally reliant and lackluster

[Nillo]

Looking at the ret 2pc you really have to hope they buff the crappy Judgement damage in the process because else both 2pc may be disappointing /:

[Soloz]

they need to change the 2pc to shield of the righteous ateast and the 4pc is meh

[morphling8]

Every other tank bonus is far better, this is pretty much crap.

[Nyghtfall]

Good i guess. Nothing too exciting.

[Gallahadd]

good to see everyone agreeing on the myehness :P

thinking a little more on it, I'd prefer to change 2pc to AS instead of Judge (it would same as the warriors with Revenge in terms of stacking) and for the 4pc I'd have the range set to 70yrd baseline for the skills (seriously, the current radius is a JOKE) and change the bonus from 60sec of CD to 'Allows your DG to affect the paladin as well as his raid. At the moment everyone else gets a way of turning a personal CD into a raid CD, as Paladins already HAVE a raid CD, why not let them turn a RAID CD into a PERSONAL CD?

or they could just let AD share it's effect with the raid

[Higg]

personally I'll be grabbing that 2p ASAP... as for the 4pc though....myeh, maybe I'll be proved wrong... but that doesn't scream 'AMG MUST HAVE' in the same way that 4pc T12 does.

I was thinking the exact opposite.

And T12 4pc isn't a must-have.

[danpaladin]

I was thinking the exact opposite.

And T12 4pc isn't a must-have.

This. But I am not sure the 4piece is as good as I thought it would be when I first read it. Both bonuses are surely the weakest of all the tanks, including that 2piece DK bonus. Because these bonuses are so week, I am thinking that maybe the nerfs to mastery won't be as big as anticipated, which is why these crappy bonuses are here.

I can't imagine the 2piece bonus staying as is, though. A 3-5k bubble every 8-10 seconds? Really, really weak.

[Ammeg]

Unless there is some major mechanics that requires a raid cool down every 2mins instead of 3mins, the 4pc is totally crap, especially compared to other classes.

Not only that, but in terms of gameplay, it is also totally uninteresting. All the other tanks actually get something new to play around with, and all we get is a pre-nerf ability that existed since the beginning of the time.

something new to play with? Yeah, now we're not even allowed to use shield wall when we feel is needed cus the raid leaders will be asking it to be saved for the benefit of the raid >.<

I'd much prefer shield wall with a 2 min cd instead of 3 and to hell with the raid ^_^

[ProfessorTjc]

Even though these set bonuses arn't that great, Paladins compensate for being amazing at a tank class.

[Brosterr]

DG on a 2 min cd + 100 yards was nerfed because it was OP, so yeah..... its a great 4 pc, for the first time this expansion. 2 pc will be changed once the devos come down off whatever drug they were on when they made it so no big deal about that atm.

[Asur]

I agree the 2pc needs to be AS or something else, max veng im only hitting 13-15k reg judgements so that be pitiful unless there is so much damage in the Demon Soul raid that every bit counts. I think with all the raid cooldowns and haste buffs for healers that there is going to be tons of damage going out a lot of the time.

[Deleted]

both bonuses are crap. judgement does no damage to actually gain a decent shield from (with only 30% of the dmg its nearly nothing) compared to the damage a tank takes during a fight.
anch wtf...i want to have a good personal CD as set-bonus.....
the raidwall "buff" is nice to have, if you would need it (lets see what encounter will come), but siriously...this is just unsatisfiyng! after all it is a 4 set bonus.

[MorphexEU]

Comparing our set bonuses to the 3 other tank set bonuses, we ended up with the worst.

A pretty weak ability giving us a absorb shield? Redicilus.

Reducing the CD on our raid wall? Thats ok, but when you look at the other tank 4sets ...... we fall behind.

Yes i am whining, but based on facts :P

[MerinPally]

Lengthy Mathsy Post incoming

Seeing as my account is currently banned and I have nothing to do except watch the Rugby World Cup, I've decided to do the maths behind this, seeing as I'm going to do some maths homework anyway.

__________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________

2pc Protection T13 = Your Judgement ability now also grants a physical absorb shield equal to 30% of the damage it dealt.

Ok - now, fortunately, I have a log of our pre nerf Ragnaros kill from Monday 19th, so I have a nice 12, almost 13 minute kill to take my data from. However, I will use the entire nights data (all 5 attempts) to get my numbers from so I have a much larger volume of data to take numbers from.

The glyphs I was using for the kill were Crusader Strike, Shield of Righteousness and Seal of Truth, along with the prot spec you can see in my armory link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced therefore only having those +damage talents. I will not factor in other raid buffs I did not have at the time of kill and will just take the raw numbers, and assume that the raid buffs we have will just be the standard that anyone will have.


Two different judgements here, depending on what Seal we get up to - Truth and Insight. The breakdown for these different judgements is as follows:

Judgement of Truth - 150 hits averaging 12889.6, 7 crits averaging 25156.9.
Judgement of Insight - 117 hits averaging 10227.2, 6 crits averaging 18832.3

That's 280 judgement hits with a 4.64% crit chance, which I'm going to assume is fairly average. That's with the 5% crit buff, so I was not too far off. I miraculously managed to avoid any misses whatsoever, which is surprising seeing as I think I have around 3% hit maybe if I'm lucky. Factoring in crits, this makes the average Judgement hits as follows for a 373 geared tank like myself, without the 4p bonus:

Truth = 13436.55
Insight = 10646.96

Seeing as we will get 30% of this judgement hit as a bubble absorbing anything, the following numbers are what will happen:

Truth = 4030.965
Insight = 3194.088

Now if you ask me, that's pretty lackluster as general AOE ticks hit more than that, and an 8 second cooldown bubble absorbing 4k damage is pathetic. Even if you Glyphed for Judgement, you would be absorbing about 4500 and 3600 respectively, which is again, pretty pathetic. That's not going to have much of an impact on your survival whatsoever. If this was 300% of the damage and was a typo, it would be more understandable, but in pvp it would be a nightmare so couldn't be implemented.

__________________________________________________________________________________________ ______________

Now, I read in this thread that many people wanted Avengers Shield instead - lets take a look.

On that Ragnaros night, using it pretty much whenever it was available, I had 207 hits, 7 crits, and 10 misses.

Average hit = 15071.9
Average crit = 25036.7

Anyway, this makes the average hit from every Avengers Shield over the night, 14710.45. This was without the Avengers Shield glyph. Seeing as we will use Avengers Shield on cooldown if such a thing is implemented (assuming there are no sitting around phase transitions) then we can say that Avengers Shield will be used at least once every 12 seconds, to factor in Grand Crusader procs. This would mean we get a 4413.14 absorb shield every 12 seconds. If you work out the amount absorbed per second relating to uptime, this is LESS than you get from Judgement of Truth, simply due to the cooldown.

__________________________________________________________________________________________ __________

Although I want to get away from yet another Crusader Strike orientated set bonus (and partially because in pvp it would be overpowered) I can't help but feel this would be a viable solution too.

Over the entirety of 5 Ragnaros attempts, I used 470 Crusader Strike hits, 134 Crusader Strike crits, 28 blocks, 17 dodge, 66 parry and 36 miss.

Average hit = 12234.7
Average crit = 24291.6
Average block = 8577.6

This makes an average hit for Glyphed Crusader Strike, 12310.99

Now, make that a 30% shield and you get a 3693.3 absorb every 3 seconds theoretically, but the average usage of my Crusader Strike actually hitting was 6.2 seconds due to misses/dodges/parrys and phase transitions, so lets assume it's closer to 5 seconds. 5 seconds to play it safe whereas it could very easily be 4.5 seconds. This would equate to a 9848.8 absorb on average in the same time period as a judgement.


Average Judgement Absorb every 8 seconds = 4500 or 3600
Average Avengers Shield Absorb every 8 seconds = 2942
Average Crusader Strike Absorb every 8 seconds = 9849

So, that shows me that Judgement is too weak (and pretty much forces us to use Seal of Truth or risk losing survivability), Avengers Shield is too weak due to cooldown, and Crusader Strike is too strong.

My suggestion? Up the Judgement one to 50% or make it 15% from Crusader Strike. This would make the average Judgement absorb about 6k and the Average Crusader strike one just about 5k. Other suggestion I have would be to swap the current 2pc and 4pc around, having the Divine Guardian as a 2pc, then remodel the Absorb into Holy Shield, under the idea maybe of:

4pc - All the extra damage (or a percentage of) absorbed by Holy Shield as a result of the +20% extra, will be converted into a shield absorb that will begin after Holy Shield expires.

Seems a bit too samey to T12 4pc, this following one is my favourite of me actually wanting to get back to Judgement of Light and a TBC Spriest but here goes:

4pc - Every time your Censure deals damage, each member of your raid is healed for a fixed percentage of how much damage Censure deals

That second one is my favourite despite forcing us into Seal of Truth. My average Censure tick on the 5 Ragnaros attempts was about 4k and the crit about 8k, so maybe if 10-20% of each tick was converted into a passive AOE heal to everyone in the raid. It would be very little but it would be very cool.


My maths may have gone wrong somewhere in there but the numbers won't be too horrendously off. Least I managed to waste 30minutes of my morning! Thanks to anyone who could be bothered to read, but yeah, that percentage and/or spell needs to be changed for the 2pc to do anything noticeable.

I can't comment on the 4pc as I can't see how to explain that using maths, it all depends on how far out and how much they expect to spread the raid I guess.

[imortals]

about 4 sets

+: Divine guardian was already a raid cooldown anyway, so unlike warriors (for example) we dont need to "sacrifice" one of our personal cooldowns in order to save the raid.
+: with this range we are sure to give everyone the benefit from it now.
+: from 3 to 2 minute cooldown. depends on fight how much of a use this is gonna be.

-: "this is how DG was before nerf, so we only get it back when we wear 4 sets" not a valid point imo. If bliz would make arcane blast do the dubble dmg for 1 day, then nerf it back because it was to powerful, would u complain if this tier would let your arcane blast do dubble the damage? I don't think so (extreme example tho)

-: "in comparison with other tanks its bad." We still don't have to blow our ancient king, holy shield or divine protection to activate our 4sets bonus

overall i'm happy with this.