[Moonkin] Guide :: 5.4 Edition

[Fountaiin]

Even tho I am sceptical towards canceling casts (with better gear your haste is also higher) I would not consider it outside of very heavy multidot situation. Also, I am not sure that those wasted miliseconds of hard cast that was canceled are worth the dmg difference between wrath/starfire and SS.

Keep in mind not only are your starsurges extending both dots, but the crit chance is higher as well.

[Lilija]

Just strafing man much easier for me atleast.

Interrupting spells by movement used to burdened with latency - that's why I was wondering about macro because /stopcasting reacts faster. However, /stopcasting tends to give unplanned results if not used with a proper macro.

[Blizzyb]

Completely disagree. I cancel wraths all the time, and if I've just started a starfire I'll cancel it. This is especially true if you have multiple dots up, since you're going to have an influx of ss procs at the 520+ gear levels.

Maybe my tune will change when I get more gear and depending on the fight, but that had been the general ranged rule for years prior. I withdrawal my previous statement until further testing.

[Stommped]

It should never really be an issue with Wrath since the amount of Starsurges you can use in Solar Eclipse is fixed at 2. You could potentially cancel a Wrath to cast instant SS post Solar, but I'm not really sure if that's +DPS given that you are likely costing yourself a Starsurge in Lunar Eclipse.

As far as Starfire cancelling, it seems to be a fairly straightforward math question. I used a high proc chance scenario to compare two rotations: Starfire, Instant SS, Starfire, Instant SS, Starfire vs. Starfire cast cancelled to cast Instant Starsurge x5. The "break even" point in terms of DPS in this scenario is .7 secs casted of your Starfire, meaning if you cancel any Starfire cast after a time less than .7 seconds for an Instant SS than it should be a DPS gain and if you cancel a Starfire after this point you are losing DPS.

This was done assuming NG was active (important for Starfire cast time and GCD for instant SS), so the values post Eclipse when NG is likely off might be different. I used 10k haste meaning your Starfire cast will be 1.76 secs with NG up.

[huth]

At that point you might simply not be fast enough to cancel the cast, period.

[Stommped]

I realized I made a rather large error in calculating, edited my post.

[Lilija]

At that point you might simply not be fast enough to cancel the cast, period.

That's my main issue here. I know how latency can occassionally make me queue a wrong spell. Cancelling spells might have a point in a 0 latency environment, however, I am not sure if I want to risk it in the real case.

[huth]

.7 seconds? Yeah, that's going to be hard to hit, unless the SS proc was before the SF started.

I stay with my "never worth it".

[Stommped]

And there's virtually no change post Eclipse with no NG, the bp is .81 seconds.

[Blizzyb]

It should never really be an issue with Wrath since the amount of Starsurges you can use in Solar Eclipse is fixed at 2. You could potentially cancel a Wrath to cast instant SS post Solar, but I'm not really sure if that's +DPS given that you are likely costing yourself a Starsurge in Lunar Eclipse.

How does this post make you feel?

[Stommped]

How does this post make you feel?

What's your point?

The highest expected DPS comes from using 2 SS in Solar (per his post in #4) meaning you should never cancel a Wrath cast in an attempt to get that third SS in Eclipse. It's a marginal increase per his post (#3) but we are additionally factoring in wasted time casting nothing for that 3rd SS.

Basically for Wrath cancelling it's all about energy. If you are at 20 Solar and casting Wrath when SS procs, I would never cancel this Wrath no matter what, just use the SS immediately after casting Wrath. If you have 50 energy casting Wrath when SS procs, it becomes dicey whether or not you should use this SS at all prior to 5 energy. If you get another proc post Solar then it is slightly beneficial to use it. If you don't then it is slightly worse. Meaning there is no reason to cancel your Wrath for this gamble of possibly better or worse DPS.

It is entirely different ballgame if you have numerous targets dotted. When you can begin to expect 5-6 SS procs per Solar cycle then go ahead cancel away, but I think it that is fairly obvious.

[Sunfyre]

Please realize a lot of this is gear dependent, as well. Strategies for someone in blues (which the guide was written for) versus strategies in high end raid gear are completely different.

[pallyballz]

I have a question about CD's and what to do when they come off cooldown. I know when you start a fight you are pre-Luner then Starfall > Wrath > CD's (Incarnation/Natures Vigil/Berserking). What do you do when CD's come up for a second time? It usually happens when Starfall is on CD so I can't start off with pre-Luner > Starfall > Wrath > CD's. Do I just not use Starfall the time before I know CD's will come up? Hopefully this makes sense. It does in my head lol.

[Stommped]

I have a question about CD's and what to do when they come off cooldown. I know when you start a fight you are pre-Luner then Starfall > Wrath > CD's (Incarnation/Natures Vigil/Berserking). What do you do when CD's come up for a second time? It usually happens when Starfall is on CD so I can't start off with pre-Luner > Starfall > Wrath > CD's. Do I just not use Starfall the time before I know CD's will come up? Hopefully this makes sense. It does in my head lol.

Yes. Save the last Starfall before your CDs come up and do the same thing as your opener.

[Deleted]

Hi guys, Im new to the moonkin spec. So, I had some questions about our last tier talent (L90).

I'm trying all of them out on a Raidddummy, which is not ideal but it gives some perspective. Ive only used MotW and alch flas 320 int.
Nature's Vigil comes out as the weakest, HotW being the 2nd and DoC tops them all over a 3 min fight (also in total damage done).

Although I don't see much difference in the skills used and damage done per skill (aside from MF and SF dealing a bit more damage per ofc with DoC), I think it will be better dps wise if I have 10293 haste, instead of the 5273 I have now.

What do you guys think about DoC atm? Is it viable to use it in raids? Or do you think that MF and SF will never be on top of our most damage done skills (Perhaps on heavy movement fight).

Armory link for perspective: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uffia/advanced

Holler if you see any wrong gems/enchants

thanks in advance

[Deleted]

DoC might be a bit better than HotW or Vigil on the dummy but that's about it. In an actual raiding environment on a purely single target fight (of which there are almost none) it's a pain in the ass at best. On any fight where you have multiple targets which is almost every boss fight DoC is totally useless. So, to answer your question, in its current state DoC is not viable for balance druids.

[huth]

What do you guys think about DoC atm? Is it viable to use it in raids? Or do you think that MF and SF will never be on top of our most damage done skills (Perhaps on heavy movement fight).

Any Multi-DoT fight they should be in the top 3. Doesn't make DoC viable for actually use, though. At best, it's an annoying PITA, at worst, it's a damage loss.

[Prisefighter]

Just recently dinged 90 on my balance alt. Quick question re the 5273 haste breakpoint: I can reach the breakpoint IF I gem and reforge for haste rather than crit, but is that worth it? Or should I just be gemming/reforging straight crit until better gear gets me close to 5273 haste?

[worcester]

I have the same problem as above.


I can reach the 5273 haste breakpoint using haste gems. but is it better for me to just maybe ignore this and gem crit instead until i can get more gear?

Another question i have is soul of the forest. I know the guide says use incarnation, but sotf feels more natural, as with my low haste and crit, i spend too much time outside eclipse. Many times nature's grace has already fallen off and im barely past 0 energy... and then it takes even longer for me to eclipse as i have to refresh dots w/o eclipse or natures grace.

I have another question about aoe. What is the deal with hurricane/astral storm and mushroom. So im guessing that i shouldnt use mushroom if adds are already out and about. But if the aoe lasts too long, and i recast hurricane frequently to move it with the adds. I seem to go oom... i think im doing something wrong.

And finally, this is my first dotting class. I'm not very used to multidotting. What can i do to more intelligently to move tab target across around a few clustered targets. Sometimes i click on their healthbar, is this wrong?
So if there is spread targets to multidot, which is correct: both dots and move to next target OR eclipsed dot first across all targets and then come around to dot with other.
These are not clear in the guide at all! But it was very helpful. I finally got the opening rotation correct. Although it is a bit ambiguous because i thought 0 energy meant the other eclipse. So i was doing: Starfall -> wrath -> incarnation, sunfire -> moonfire -> starfire (refresh starfall after 1st) until solar eclipse!! -> celestial alignment etc. instead of starfire until lunar eclipse runs out -> celestial alignment. So i ended up pointing the arrow toward lunar and it was a bit crazy with having to switch from starfire to wrath suddenly and didnt feel smooth at all. i got help from a local druid on server. but im here to get more questions answered.

edit: this is my druid
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Rorky/advanced

[land]

Just recently dinged 90 on my balance alt. Quick question re the 5273 haste breakpoint: I can reach the breakpoint IF I gem and reforge for haste rather than crit, but is that worth it? Or should I just be gemming/reforging straight crit until better gear gets me close to 5273 haste?

Not sure what would simm better for you, i'd just stick with the crit gems for now and let the 5.2k breakpoint be reached with better gear. That's what I did anyways.