Guild UI, Reforging, Raid Buffs/Debuffs

I think Bliz has been making a positive move away from the hybrid tax. Also if "buffing classes" like shammies are concearned that now they won't get to come to the raids they either raid with a bunch of tools or aren't very good and truely are only brought for the buff. I have never seen a good player not be invited to a 25 man raid because they already had the "token shammy." I think this will finally make it to where the raids are composed with skilled players that can perform boss mechanics regardless of class. Now if they would only bring Attunment's back.

"5% Stats -- Paladin, Druid"

Kings is getting nerfed?

The rank changing panel looks SO much better now.

So what do you do to earn guild rank? Is it just progression, or can we gain more by doing this like achievements?

just wanted to say I have enjoyed all of the videos you have posted from TotalBiscuit...I enjoy his sense of humor and the fact that his commentary is not all rabid fanboydom but contains some valid criticisms.

Originally Posted by slimj091

sure... but they are also nerfing hybrids dps with a big stick this expansion. so pure's getting all of the hybrid buffs, plus an across the board nerf to hybrid class dps, equals why bring anyone other than pure's to dps? btw most real guilds do not bring someone because they are an awesome person. they bring them because they can put out 10k+ dps. if they happen to be an awesome person as well.. then that is just a bonus.

that is the reality that we are in.. in game. you don't bring people for their personality, or for their "i think i can i think i can i think i can" attitude. you bring them to get shit done. you bring tanks because they have 80k-90k health, you bring healers because... well they are stupid, and you need to bring them anyways, and you bring dps because they can put out 13k dps.

Um, now I think you're trolling. Blizzard has never stated that they're nerfing hybrid dps "across the board." You know, the first heroic LK25 kill used no mages? And they're a PURE dps class. I feel sorry for you if you feel forced to raid with assholes and bads because they have an awesome buff. Thankfully, Blizzard is getting rid of this attitude in cataclysm.

---------- Post added 2010-07-28 at 09:39 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Sharaki

No. Becouse you don't need the buffs and those guys are awesome players, you tell them to reroll into USEFUL class that can actually do DPS

..and what Kenai said..

I'm not going to, and no one should, force a player to reroll a class for progression. I will tell a mage to go arcane or fire over frost, but not a completely different class.

If you need more of a class, recruit new ones.

---------- Post added 2010-07-28 at 09:40 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Unferth

"5% Stats -- Paladin, Druid"

Kings is getting nerfed?

Since rogues, shaman, druids, and hunters are getting 2 AP per agil, and casters are getting SP for int, it would have been too powerful of a buff.

some classes will suffer because of this like some ppl are saying and the reason is simple

until now, blizzard hasn't said 1 thing that really motivates guilds to do 25 mans

so... some classes will get in trouble to fit on 10 mans, shamans probably but without a doubt i really don't see bringing priest to 10 mans

holy is inferior to any other raid healing (in wolk)

discipline will not be for raids in cata, shields costing alot of mana (said by a blue) and the promise that mana will be a problem in Cataclysm, this spec is clearly (with the new talents) a leveling spec only

so in 10 man will not be any reason to bring a priest instead of a druid or a pala

the same goes for some dps

Originally Posted by Slocke

I like the consolidation of buffs as stated above. I know things are not set in stone but I just went through to see how many buffs each class had.

Shaman 10
Warrior 10
Paladin 9
Mage 9
Warlock 9
Druid 8
Death Knight 7
Rogue 7
Hunter 4
Priest 4

I am aware that some are not listed yet, but it makes me wonder if they are going to try and level everything a little bit closer together.

take into account that not every spec of each class has all buffs of the class first. wont fix everything, still needs work, but you have to take that into account before saying anything.

Originally Posted by Spike`

discipline will not be for raids in cata, shields costing alot of mana (said by a blue) and the promise that mana will be a problem in Cataclysm, this spec is clearly (with the new talents) a leveling spec only

Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Resto druids won't be for raids since they can't spam rejuv/WG on everyone since mana will matter more and they have talents that have them casting wrath.

We're not even close to being done with beta. If cata was being released on Friday, I'd be worried.

Remember:
Today pure dps is balance to dps without buffs so they will do more dps when in raid with buffers/hybrids
Tomorow pure dps will bring buffs to raid so his dps have to be balance around with 100% up time buff so so hybrids will not be nerf but pure will be more balance with hybrida.

Example:
Elemental shaman probably have been balance to count with hero every fight he enter.
Mage some fights dont have hero so they are balance to not count with that buff and when they have they do much more dmg then others.
On cata mages have hero so their damage have to be balance with hero in mind because they will have hero for all fights like shaman have now.

So i think hybrids will continue the same and pure dps will fell someking a nerf. I dont think is a nerf but they will fell like it because no more extra buffs to win more dps.

Sry about english.

Originally Posted by Tryinmilkme

Also if "buffing classes" like shammies are concearned that now they won't get to come to the raids they either raid with a bunch of tools or aren't very good and truely are only brought for the buff. I have never seen a good player not be invited to a 25 man raid because they already had the "token shammy."

Funny you should mention that. Reminds me of one time that I signed up for an ICC 25 guild run, and we had too many people. After dropping people according to rank and/or hadn't sat out the previous week, we were left with one extra person. Now this remaining extra needed gear and dkp more than I did and, since I wasn't particularly feeling up to raiding that night, I volunteered to sit. The RL (who is also my GM) wouldn't have with it because "we need bloodlust", as I was the only shaman in the raid. *sigh*

In the end, the player I had volunteered to leave for got sat. I was unhappy with the outcome and looking back on it... I regret that I did not press the issue. (I can't recall if the above incident was the first time or not, but I feel it won't be the last.)

Originally Posted by rochedo

Remember:
Today pure dps is balance to dps without buffs so they will do more dps when in raid with buffers/hybrids
Tomorow pure dps will bring buffs to raid so his dps have to be balance around with 100% up time buff so so hybrids will not be nerf but pure will be more balance with hybrida.

Example:
Elemental shaman probably have been balance to count with hero every fight he enter.
Mage some fights dont have hero so they are balance to not count with that buff and when they have they do much more dmg then others.
On cata mages have hero so their damage have to be balance with hero in mind because they will have hero for all fights like shaman have now.

So i think hybrids will continue the same and pure dps will fell someking a nerf. I dont think is a nerf but they will fell like it because no more extra buffs to win more dps.

Sry about english.

Where does it say that Blizzard balances classes based on what they can do by themselves? Are you saying that Blizzard balances dummy dps as apposed to what someone can do in a raid with full buffs? They've even said that they don't balance pvp for 1v1.

Always wanted to see some organized recording of the buff and debuff system. TY Ghostcrawler.

Just goes to show how complex wow is that there's so many buffs/debuffs...I honestly was hoping they'd trim some of this down in cata, but I guess they're just trying to spread them around a bit more.

Originally Posted by Hoosiermama

I'm not even sure the hybrid tax is still around today. Every class is capable of competitive damage (competitive, not chart-topping).

And that second hybrid tax you're talking about is a requirement for being able to switch roles. That's like a mage complaining about having to keep his main set in top enchants and gems. You don't have to have separate sets, that's a bonus for the class.

Dps is not "competitive" unless it can actually compete. If you have no chance of being number one, then that's not competing. This "requirement" is entirely artificial due to so-called pure's excessive QQ at not being number one on the dps charts in every encounter. You made a hypocrite of yourself when you referred to the hybrid tax as a requirement for the ability to respec to a different role...and then following it up to say hybrids do not have to have separate sets. Which is it? The two are not mutually exclusive for "hybrids". That's not a bonus at all when it comes with a penalty of making you a second-rate raider at your given role. Raid leaders don't excuse lower dps because you are a hybrid. If your raid is on the cusp of killing a dps check boss or beating a raid encounter....guess who is getting criticized or sat? (hint..it's the lowest dpsers..which almost by default will be hybrids due to this rediculous hybrid tax). Having an artificial limiter placed on your ability to compete at your given role is not fun...especially for a raider who will never get any chance at using anything other than a second dps offspec anyway due to lack of need for extra tanks. Dps is 100% about competing..and as such..the hybrid tax is the opposite of fairness...especially considering the hybrid tax only really applies to non-rogue melee dps vs all other dpsers.

Id love to hear Blizz explain just "why" people will actively want to bring Enhancement Shamans to raids wice our dps is "oh so competetive" *raises eyebrows* when it comes to other hybrids.

How do warrs bring 10% melee haste? or agi and str?

Originally Posted by Hoosiermama

I'm not going to, and no one should, force a player to reroll a class for progression. I will tell a mage to go arcane or fire over frost, but not a completely different class.

If you need more of a class, recruit new ones

You can tell player that he wont get raidspot and recruit a new.. or tell him to reroll. I'd rather tell him to reroll. Most guilds use your method and just kick that guy out and recruit new.

Just noticed that shaman are very well represented in the buff section- and completely absent in the debuff section. Does anyone think that may be a problem for the class in Cataclysm?

Originally Posted by wilsha2

Dps is not "competitive" unless it can actually compete. If you have no chance of being number one, then that's not competing. This "requirement" is entirely artificial due to so-called pure's excessive QQ at not being number one on the dps charts in every encounter. You made a hypocrite of yourself when you referred to the hybrid tax as a requirement for the ability to respec to a different role...and then following it up to say hybrids do not have to have separate sets. Which is it? The two are not mutually exclusive for "hybrids". That's not a bonus at all when it comes with a penalty of making you a second-rate raider at your given role. Raid leaders don't excuse lower dps because you are a hybrid. If your raid is on the cusp of killing a dps check boss or beating a raid encounter....guess who is getting criticized or sat? (hint..it's the lowest dpsers..which almost by default will be hybrids due to this rediculous hybrid tax). Having an artificial limiter placed on your ability to compete at your given role is not fun...especially for a raider who will never get any chance at using anything other than a second dps offspec anyway due to lack of need for extra tanks. Dps is 100% about competing..and as such..the hybrid tax is the opposite of fairness...especially considering the hybrid tax only really applies to non-rogue melee dps vs all other dpsers.

If your raid leader is benching "hybrids" based solely on DPS charts (which I SERIOUSLY DOUBT- Most of the people that come up with these ludicrous hypothetical situations do so only because of insecurities about their own dps with no class parses to back up their claims), then maybe you should consider joining a different guild? Also, if your only concern as a hybrid is out dps'ing everyone else then maybe you should consider playing a pure class. The fun of playing a hybrid is the flexibility it provides. A healer goes down and you can heal. A tank DC's and you can switch to your tank spec. A healer gets aggro, and you can off tank for a bit to help out. The benefits are immeasurable in certain circumstances and a good raid leader knows this. Also, a good player, that plays a hybrid class, should know that recount isn't the only thing you should be thinking about.