Dungeon Finder Call to Arms - Clarification

This won`t make me queue on either two of my tanks any more than I did before, which is once a day. So I get a shot at a mount that I`ll probably never get because I`ve farmed mounts in dungeons, hell I`ve been farming the Karazhan one SINCE it came out and NEVER saw it before, my only interest was the raven mount. Probably a meaningless extra gold since it`s so easy to come by, and flasks which don`t matter since I raid.

If you dps think your queues will be much shorter you are surely mistaken because this will be lucky to reduce it by maybe, 5 minutes.

I have a well geared rogue and hunter and I occasionally run a pug when I'm bored. The long wait isn't a big deal since I putter about doing dailies or alt-tabbed while waiting. I know what my role is, am happy to CC when called for (which pug tanks rarely do), almost always top the damage chart and never cause a wipe.

I don't like being excluded from goodies just because I run classes I enjoy playing, so I'll probably just stop running pugs with those toons. I wonder if losing well geared, skilled dps was part of the plan?

I do find the arguements that dps QQing about this change being selfish rather..... inverted.

Healers can forget about that bag. Blizzard is making system that reward lest popular role, but if it happens that tanks don't have call to arms then all tanks and alt tank who were planning to queue just for the bag will stop queueing and after awhile its back to call to arms for tanks.

Originally Posted by leipuri

Healers can forget about that bag. Blizzard is making system that reward lest popular role, but if it happens that tanks don't have call to arms then all tanks and alt tank who were planning to queue just for the bag will stop queueing and after awhile its back to call to arms for tanks.

funny hearing tanks saying 'this reward is not worth the pain' and having people like you say 'omg the reward is so great tanks are going to stop tanking just so they can be least active and go for it'.

This doesn't fix the root problem. If blizzard continues to listen to people who want to literally face-roll through heroics to get shiny new gear over the people who actually want the game to be challenging and fun, then nothing will ever change. They will always nerf the shit out of heroics to suit the bad players who complain non stop. The people who are actually decent at the game are going to get bored and stop running them becase they already have all the gear they need from them, and they don't want to run any more of them due to people who are half brain dead. Their solution of bribing players who would otherwise not give a shit about heroics anymore won't last very long. Eventually people will get fed up with the bad players and stop running them again. Then the lfd will be full of even more idiotic people who only que up for randoms for a shot at some quick rewards. I can already imagine people complaing about an influx of bad players due to the new reward system. Then blizzard will nerf heroics even more to try and compensate for it.

Originally Posted by ProphetNoata

This still screws people over who only have pure dps classes.

Then those infants will have to stfu and create a tank, won't they?

Originally Posted by Tamerlane2

I take your point about 25 man raidgroups, but from what I can see on my server atleast they are becoming a minority as guilds lose members and move to 10 man raiding only, which happens to have exactly the same tank:dps ratio as 5 mans.

Not every realm has the majority running 10 man. Many times actual encounters ar easier in 25 that in 10, so many guild tend to continue running 25 man. More, if guilds lose members, then other guild will form with other tank, probabily ex-dps equipped tank in offspec through raid...and they don't need to farm heroics.
And finally, if the intent of Blizzard were to remove 25 man raid they simply...remove them. So we'll still have the 25man raid with the current ratio that is far not equal to 5man and 10 man content.

Originally Posted by Holo

Bullshit. Under normal tank and spank conditions yeah, but thats not the case 80% of the time. We have other things to do apart from just hitting a boss.

(Coming from someone playing melee dps for 4 years, tank for 2 and healer for 1,5.)

LOL. Really? Other than RAID encounters I can't think of much that is asked of DPS.

So what is asked of DPS?

1. Don't stand in the goo
2. Hit the designated target
3. Don't pull aggro off tank unless assigned to kite.

Why do so many DPS only players think their job in the game involves so much work? I really don't get it. I played all three roles and I would drag my DPS specs out when I wanted a break. It really is a different level of involvement.

Ok, now time for some reality for all of you...

1) The long que times are not because of a lack of tank and healer classes being represented in game, they are long because of pure laziness by those that play those classes. They got what they needed out of running heroic dungeons so now they are to lazy to take the time to do them for others. Since when in life is it ever a good idea to reward laziness? I think the idea of rewarding people for running heroic dungeons is a great idea, but i also think that only giving that reward to one particular class is yes, unfair to the rest out there. My main is a dps class and I run my daily random heroic every day. Not because it rewards me, but because it rewards others that still need things from there.

2) To all those tanks and healers posting on this thread that keep telling all the people that role dps classes that they are worthless and not important to the success of the dungeon, lets see you solo those heroics by yourself from now on. Better yet, now instead of getting quality dps to run with so YOU get something special, now you get to run with fail dps and now get to spend 3+ hours in a random and possibly not finish. As a dps that knows what the hell im doing, i feel no need to help make the dungeon easier on you anymore.

3) In response to the posts about how tanking is soooo hard, LEARN TO PLAY YOU GD CLASS. Things will get much easier then. Yes, i have several tanking alts that i play, and its not difficult in the least to hold aggro from agressive dps, or to do your job properly so that the group doesnt wipe. Stop blaming others for your inability to play your class properly.

4) If you think for one second that tanks and healers take all the blame for fail in dungeons now, which they dont, what excactly do you think a system that rewards only you will cause to happen? The slightest little mistake on your part and all of the "worthess" dps (as you so nicely put it) will have no compasion or forgivness and will quicker than you can spit, kick you from group, because, well, your only there to farm a mount, so why should we tolerate it?

Personaly i think a system that rewards QUALITY OVER QUANTITY is a much better idea, the satchels of loot should go out to everyone in group not just a select class. That way the good players, that know what they are doing, will ALL be more inclined to run heroics. As it stands, all this current idea will do is cause good tanks and healers to start running them again, and all the good dps will stop. Which will then be trading 40 min que times for 3+ hour dungeon runs due to lack of quality players actually queing.

This is going to reulst in a huge amount of whining....hi2u Boomkin tank !

Originally Posted by iceberg265

By FAR. What game do you play?

WHAT. Lol. What game do YOU play? Everyone has a separate job to do that without the other the group would fail. Who do you think CCs? Not just the tank or healer. Who do you think has to dispel you because you can't spare a CD to take it off yourself/are too busy trying to do your job (if you can even take it off yourself, in the first place). Not just the healer. Out of all the ignorant comments in this thread, yours has to be the stupidest (yes that even includes the people qq'ing in this thread).

Also on topic, I like this change much better. I was a little disappointed that if I was to roll out my tank, and dust her off that the rewards could only be on that toon. Now I can have my pets on my main! :]

well as a healer i must say it sucks, because how are the pure dps gonna get a reduced time on their queue if probably the most asked for are tanks and healers? and if they are in balance no call to arms is available? i doubt i will ever see a call to arms asking for a dps.. its not like they have a 30 to 45 minute queue because there is a lack of dps, i would suggest to have another look at call to arms because the way it is intended now is not helping any dps at all and if they can have a fair shot at the satchel make sure they do, and right now they dont since WoW lacks healers and tanks not dps. hopefully im seeing this wrong

simple solution? if you're a dps don't queue until call to arms asks for dps, either if you're a tank or a healer! No call to arms? Ok, let's run my bike in the wilderness :P

It was a joke, obviously :P

im a pally tank/healer and I think this is overdoing it
Its really unfair for DPSers and its the easy way out imo
Im already happy with my instant queues
There must be another way the main reason why we lack healers and tank is because of all the elitist assholes that have too much time on their hand and play all day/night long.
People are not allowed to learn or wipe anymore
The problem is the people playing the game... only WE can fix this shit and more tanks / heals will play again

You dpsers get much lower queue time after this change... Even though you don't get the same rewards as a healer/tank it's atleast something, right? The problem nowadays is that many healers/tanks queues up as dps to have a "chill" dungeon. With this change you will probably see those guys queing up as healer/tank instead. I don't say a dps does nothing but damage one target, but the dps job is muuuch easier than a healer's/tank's job in a heroic dungeon. Btw, love this change! <3

Tanking is a joke. Healing is a complete joke in heroics. Plain and simple heroics are a joke and people don't deserve nice things for playing the spec they chose. If they choose that spec just to acquire nice things then they are just loser tool bags.

Originally Posted by Bucky Mclachlan

I'm making plenty sense, outside of the most extreme circumstances, no one is going to fail at their given role in this game simply because of gear, that's just pure and utter ignorance. Heroics are not hard. If you're wiping to them constantly it's probably got very little to do with gear.

BTW, you do know that tanks don't need much of any hit or expertise right now, and the caps for those stats are lower for heroics, right?

All of my toons are very well geared, but lets just say I had an alt i was leveling and I went for pvp gear first since it's easy to obtain. And I wanted to tank on that toon. I can guarantee you the lack of dodge and parry on some of that gear isn't going to make or break it my ability to tank and anyways, the more cc you have going out and the faster things are dying the more all those avoidance stats aren't being put to work.

There is a reason for everything Blizzard does, a reason for every gear to be used on every situation. PvP gear basicly is for PvP and PvE gear basicly is for PvE. You are speaking of individual ability here saying "my ability" you might be talented, but you can not expect for every player to be talented, well also unfortunately knowledgeable enough. Out of 3 tanks on LFG at least 1 of them i face doesn't even know what Interrupt is, combined with half green, half pvp gear as a tank it ends up badly..

And what i mean is these people will increase. Before this system lots of Dps that has no idea of tanking were entering as tanks not to wait for queue's and most of them seen it is not worth getting kicked and getting lots of wipes (since it takes more time than waiting queue as dps that way) - so their numbers on LFG decreased lately, but with this system they will have more motive than just to decrease queue times.
As a result their numbers will increase again > Number of tanks will go up = Average Quality of tanks will go down.
So it is still a good idea to sort the Item Average system at least about tanking (making dps gear, and probably Pvp gear not counting towards Tanking gear average to enter heroics - while you are on tank spec / in queue for LFG as tank)

Originally Posted by TowerTom

No it doesn't you fucking idiot, it encourages people to play other characters. You now have the choice to either play your pure DPS class and get considerably quicker que times than now, or you can choose to play another character but still get the benefits of using a tank/healer sent to your pure DPS class.

The qq never stops does it?

No it doesn't. Maybe some people don't want to play OTHER characters? You should consider that others have put more time in a character than the rest, if not, maybe do not wish to play another character. Know that everyone has different play styles before posting intelligible comments like those.

Originally Posted by ProphetNoata

So because I didnt see random prizes coming to people who can tank and heal and because i picked and leveled classes i liked to play over classes that can tank/heal i dont get some prizes? So i would now have to level a tank/healer to get some of the coveted prizes. That to me doesnt seem like a message blizz would want to send. I'm fine with my 20 min ques. There are dailies to do auctions to undercut people to talk to. That was a fine downside for me. But now telling me i dont get extra prizes because i picked classes i like to play over classes that can tank/heal is messed up.

What about the new people to the game. Who bought the game and said" i want a warlock". And it is their only lvl 85 toon atm. That person would now have to level another toon to get these perks. Now i know there are altoholics out there but i cant stand leveling. I have 2 85s and 3 other toons stuck at random levels cause leveling gets so boring. Im still spending money on the game just like everyone else whether i level another toon or not. So why should I be made to level another class to 85 if i want these perks?

If you are fine with the heroic queues then you are the minority. You really think blizzard got together one day and said: "right, lets go piss on all the dps that don't mind the 20-30 minute heroic queues and give free loot to the healers and/or tanks!" no.

They are catering to the majority, the people who have QQ'd constantly about the length of time they have to wait for heroic runs, the people who don't play endlessly, who only have time for say one heroic a day. people like that. This is their answer, and it's a good one, since the majority of people will want these new rewards and thus will increase the amount of classes that can fulfill th needed roles in the LFD tool, thus giving everyone faster queues which was the whole reason for this addition in the first place.

Life's not always fair for everyone. Deal with it.

What about us folks that have three tanks but refuse to use the random dungeon finder because we just don't fucking want to?

The only incentive that will ever get me into the random dungeon finder on one of my tanks again is a free month of game time for every dungeon I do with the RDF.


The incentive that would get me to do non-guild runs again, since I don't see them giving me a free month for every dungeon I do, is if they fixed the game so that slamming my balls in a door isn't preferable over tanking with even a single unknown player in the group.