WoW stabilizes over 10M subscribers, down 100k in Q4 2011

Originally Posted by blackmartinix

annual pass here too, havent played in over a month, game is trash and way too easy, bring back tbc

Can i see your armory link?
I wanna see your heroic progress..
Dont pve? Well, show me your 2200 3v3 rating?

yeah, let me guess you did LFR and think you've done it all? LOL, didn't think so.

Gtfo. -.-

I knew wow wasnt dying people act silly i swear,

I'm sure the people will come back for MoP like they did for cata and then leave again at the end.

People will continue to have no freaking clue about the rest of the population...there are a ton of subsets.

What I :think: is going on:

-Extreme casuals still play, but contribute zero to the "community"
-Casuals have quit to try something new
-Semi-Casuals are enjoying LFR
-Low end raiders are complaining but milking LFR and starting heroics
-Mid end raiders are quitting in droves
-High end raiders are quitting in droves, some still around but don't enjoy game
-Extreme high end still play, but are likely also raiding in another mmo, as the time commitment once all content is cleared is minimal. They don't like the state of the game, but those that are sponsored are REQUIRED BY CONTRACT to say they are enjoying it.

In my opinion, this game has changed from having a large number of mid and high end raiders to having a massive amount of casuals and low end raiders. The community is shit because there is nothing to be have a community for. Dailies are solo content, Crossrealm features kill server communities, casuals are idiots / trolls / children, and those "hardcore" that are still around are extremely impatient of having their 5th, 6th, 7th year of dealing with complete idiots.

Less people are completing heroic content not because of difficulty, but moreso because there is zero motivation to do it. While there are still those people that want to "work hard to down hard content", I think those people have left where the rewards / recognition is better. In wow, waiting 2-4 weeks is vastly more efficient than actually gearing/learning content, as nerfs are guaranteed to happen. Adding onto the already boring aspect of killing the same boss with 1 new mechanic added... it makes for a boring night.

Again, opinion. I quit at the end of Lich King and followed MMO champ here throughout cata with zero reason to return, as merely looking at the patch notes shows how fucked the game is.

In my opinion the sub drops between now and mop are going to be huge because unlike the long time we spent in ICC a lot of casual players really wanted to kill the lich king, With LFR casuals have killed death wing and are all ready bored with DS. Blizz has already stated that DS will be the last raid of cata but in wrath people know that another raid was on the way after ICC so players were interested in sticking around to check it out

no one is reading these posts so dont bother to write

Originally Posted by bigjohnburger

The only reason these numbers are so low is because they tricked the dumb player base of wow into buying that year round plan which includes diablo 111. I love watching how stupid most people are on the forums .

In other words, wow would probably be down another million subscribers.

Sorry id be playing anyway and the annual pass was a good deal either way.

Originally Posted by vihtahousu

no one is reading these posts so dont bother to write

yea i stopped with the 7th or 8th page. theres no sense in trying to reason with anyone

The people complaining remind me of the opposing party's response during a State of the Union speech. The president can say "The trend is heading for right, with reductions in loses that if we continue to work on will lead to growth very soon", and they will immediately respond with "Everything is ruined forever, we aren't growing now."

Sometimes, the trend is enough. Considering all the other stuff happening (the Holidays, several big competitors in SWTOR and Skyrim) Wow has for the most part stemmed the bleeding, and all depending on how fast they can ship Mists i think they can grow over the next 4 quarters. It will not be easy, but I have all faith and credit in Blizz' people.

I call bullshit to this. Fabrication at its finest.

Considering all the other stuff happening (the Holidays, several big competitors in SWTOR and Skyrim) Wow has for the most part stemmed the bleeding, and all depending on how fast they can ship Mists i think they can grow over the next 4 quarters.

You missed the part where the 4th quarter has historically been a growth period when subs are at their peak, yet despite a new content patch, a couple very hyped game systems and the annual pass deal, they still managed to lose at least 100k more subs. That's not good news any way you look at it.

Originally Posted by Drewbabyy18

Can i see your armory link?
I wanna see your heroic progress..
Dont pve? Well, show me your 2200 3v3 rating?

yeah, let me guess you did LFR and think you've done it all? LOL, didn't think so.

Gtfo. -.-

Personally, I'm currently 6/8 25H, have gotten gladiator twice in the past, etc, and am really really bored with the game. So I don't find it unbelievable more casual players are, too.

It's a little unreasonable to expect people who have cleared Normal Dragon Soul to view heroic Dragon Soul as an entire new raid. By the same token, letting people kill Deathwing on LFR just means more people getting bored quicker because they feel they've beaten the game.

Diablo III should launch in Q2

2016 ? I am getting so sick and tired of waiting :/ Bought Kingdoms of Amalur out of bordom (fantastic game btw!!!), and with all the cool games i currently have on my harddrive i somehow losing the desire to actually buy Diablo3. I got so many friggen Games to play currently i dont even know where to start ó.Ò

Originally Posted by Vesci

You missed the part where the 4th quarter has historically been a growth period when subs are at their peak, yet despite a new content patch, a couple very hyped game systems and the annual pass deal, they still managed to lose at least 100k more subs. That's not good news any way you look at it.

You're forgetting the SWTOR hype as well.

Q4 and 4.3 (LFR, transmog, new heroics) vs SWTOR (1.5 mill subs and a lot of those cancelled)

It comes out to be about even, so 100k loss or gain was a reasonable guess.


On an unrelated mini-rant, why do people think growth is so important? The important part is that there are not huge losses. If they lose 1 million every quarter, the game will become unprofitable within 1-2 years. If they lose 100k every quarter, the game won't become unprofitable for a long, long, long time.

Obviously neither of those scenarios is very likely - it's likely they'll lose about 1-1.5 million per year at this rate, which probably would cause the game to go into the red in around 7-8 years.

Originally Posted by Simca

You're forgetting the SWTOR hype as well.

Q4 and 4.3 (LFR, transmog, new heroics) vs SWTOR (1.5 mill subs and a lot of those cancelled)

It comes out to be about even, so 100k loss or gain was a reasonable guess.


On an unrelated mini-rant, why do people think growth is so important? The important part is that there are not huge losses. If they lose 1 million every quarter, the game will become unprofitable within 1-2 years. If they lose 100k every quarter, the game won't become unprofitable for a long, long, long time.

Obviously neither of those scenarios is very likely - it's likely they'll lose about 1-1.5 million per year at this rate, which probably would cause the game to go into the red in around 7-8 years.

You also forgot to add in Wow's launch for Brazil. TOR launched about 2 weeks before the end of the 4Q, which should not have a huge impact on WoW's subs (prepaid time could not have expired by the end of the 4Q). Even with a seasonal push (WoW + TBC for $5) and the other 2 factors added in (increase of subs for the "free 30 days"), its shocking that they lost any subs at all, let alone 100k. In a period with most companies seeing increases in sales and subscriptions, WoW declined.

I would not be shocked to see losses of subscriptions in the 400k-500k range for the 1Q of 2012. The copies of WoW that were gifted may not continue to sub. Current subscribers may continue to pay for WoW without actually playing due to the Annual Pass. If MoP has a poor launch (features cut, nothing really added to the game, just like Cata), I could definitely see it as being the last expansion... just in time for Titan?

Are some of you trolling or are you that clueless? If you're not trolling I fear for your generation and the ones after it. Q4 ended Dec. 31. SWTOR (never played it) official release was around Dec. 21. SWTOR's not really doing the impacting WOW is really just imploding.

WOW very well could lose 1 million subs next quarter. Q2 at least another million and this isn't even taking GW2 (Whenever that's released) into account. Here are a few reasons backing this theory of the future lost subs.

-WOW is too expensive to get into compared to other games (even with sales)
-Diablo 3
-The whole MMO genre's classic formula is old and stale. It is a great genre, but a massive overhaul is due
-No new content on the horizon prior to MOP (Isle of Quel'Danas for example and probably spelled wrong)
-Not only no new content but the DS raid has been consumed (with the help of LFR) by basically everyone as soon as it was released.
-A mild winter in North America

I'm sure someone can come up with a plethora more, these are just a few that instantly came to mind.

It would also be interesting to see how many have opted out of the annual pass thus far. 1 million gained from that alone and still taking a hit subwise this quarter.

Originally Posted by Hughes

I call bullshit to this. Fabrication at its finest.

Right, Blizzard's definitely defrauding their investors, because that's a great business decision to make.

Originally Posted by jayeffkay

Are some of you trolling or are you that clueless? If you're not trolling I fear for your generation and the ones after it. Q4 ended Dec. 31. SWTOR (never played it) official release was around Dec. 21. SWTOR's not really doing the impacting WOW is really just imploding.

WOW very well could lose 1 million subs next quarter. Q2 at least another million and this isn't even taking GW2 (Whenever that's released) into account. Here are a few reasons backing this theory of the future lost subs.

-WOW is too expensive to get into compared to other games (even with sales)
-Diablo 3
-The whole MMO genre's classic formula is old and stale. It is a great genre, but a massive overhaul is due
-No new content on the horizon prior to MOP (Isle of Quel'Danas for example and probably spelled wrong)
-Not only no new content but the DS raid has been consumed (with the help of LFR) by basically everyone as soon as it was released.
-A mild winter in North America

I'm sure someone can come up with a plethora more, these are just a few that instantly came to mind.

It would also be interesting to see how many have opted out of the annual pass thus far. 1 million gained from that alone and still taking a hit subwise this quarter.

This x100 especially the bolded portion. I mean they were able to lock in over 1 million players for a year, yet they STILL lost 100k subscribers. That screams bad. Not to mention as someone else already said the winter holiday's are the biggest sale dates of the year and usually its where subs peak. Yet this year they still managed to loose 100k. Just like the person i quoted Im wondering just how many people have already opted out of the annual pass as well as how many will opt out the moment they get their diablo 3 game. Because thats the only reason I see people actually getting the annual pass. 1) MoP beta access and 2) Diablo 3 <- mostly that one. I highly doubt those million bought it to get wow for a year.

Originally Posted by jayeffkay

-WOW is too expensive to get into compared to other games (even with sales)

Last sale Blizzard had, WoW + BC was $10, Wrath was $20, Cataclysm was $30. And a new player only needs to spend the $10 to get into it. They also indicated that they intend to wrap Wrath up with WoW and BC as part of the default starter pack.

-Diablo 3

Not an MMO, doesn't have a subscription fee, and you can get it for free if you're an active WoW subscriber. I doubt there are a huge number of WoW players who intend to cancel their subscriptions just because D3 is released.

-The whole MMO genre's classic formula is old and stale. It is a great genre, but a massive overhaul is due

If this is an issue, then it applies across the board to all MMOs, not just WoW. And even to this very day, WoW remain the most polished and frequently evolving game in the genre.

-No new content on the horizon prior to MOP (Isle of Quel'Danas for example and probably spelled wrong)

A valid concern, but not entirely accurate. The game will feature a world event buildup via patches, likely of even greater scope than the buildup for Cataclysm (which included the retaking of Gnomeregan and Echo Isles events as well as the Elemental Invasions, and related questlines).

The information "deluge" they intend to unleash for MOP in March is also likely to help boost and renew interest in the game.

Not to mention the eventual closed beta, which at the very least all annual pass subscribers will have access to.

-Not only no new content but the DS raid has been consumed (with the help of LFR) by basically everyone as soon as it was released.

Content consumption is always something they're going to have to battle, and likely the biggest challenge the game faces apart from low trial to full subscription upgrade numbers.

-A mild winter in North America

???

It would also be interesting to see how many have opted out of the annual pass thus far. 1 million gained from that alone and still taking a hit subwise this quarter.

They didn't "gain 1 million" from it. They simply guaranteed 1 million members would remain subscribed.

I doubt a ton of people have opted out of it, apart from perhaps idiots who didn't understand what they were signing up for.

Originally Posted by Vesci

You missed the part where the 4th quarter has historically been a growth period when subs are at their peak, yet despite a new content patch, a couple very hyped game systems and the annual pass deal, they still managed to lose at least 100k more subs. That's not good news any way you look at it.

Yes it is, how do you think an Annual pass and some patch can compete with a whole new MMORPG?
Seriously you don't know anything about this stuff so just shut up.