Patch 5.4 - Flexible Raid Preview
Patch 5.4 will add a a new raid difficulty:

  • Bring anywhere from 10 to 25 people to your raid and the difficulty will automatically scale.
  • Works with battletags, so you can bring friends from other realms.
  • Item level of loot is between Raid Finder and Normal and loot is awarded with the Raid Finder style loot system.
  • Separate lockout from Raid Finder and Normal, allowing you to do all three difficulties.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Raids in World of Warcraft have a long history of not just challenging players, but changing and evolving as the years and expansions go by. As with everything in the game, we’re always thinking about what more we can bring to raiding to improve the experience for an even wider range of players. While Normal and Heroic Raids are a great fit for many, we feel there’s another gap worth filling—and to that end, we’re currently working on the development of a new type of Raid for the next major content update: Flexible Raiding.

One Size Does Not Fit All
While it’s impossible to fit every player into a neat, tidy archetype, we recognize that we could be providing a better experience to one broad category of raider: social groups comprised predominantly of friends and family, and smaller guilds that do their best to include as many members in their Raid outings possible.

During the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, the 10-player Normal difficulty served these groups of players pretty well, but the unification of 10-player and 25-player into a single difficulty effectively eliminated that niche. While Raid Finder mode is extremely accessible, it doesn’t provide smaller groups with a tight-knit social experience while progressing through the content. In Patch 5.4, we’re planning to introduce a new mode of raiding that allows us to deliver the sort of experience that we think these players are looking for.

/Flex
To fill this void, we’re in the process of developing a new Flexible Raid system, which includes a new difficulty that sits between Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, while still allowing friends, family, or pick-up groups to play together. This difficulty will be available for premade groups of 10–25 players, including any number in between. That means whether you have 11, 14, or 23 friends available for a Raid, they’ll all be able to participate.

The Flexible Raid system is designed so that the challenge level will scale depending on how many players you have in the Raid. So if you switch between 14 players one week and 22 the next, the difficulty will adjust automatically. Keep in mind that unlike Raid Finder, no matchmaking is available, so you’ll need to make sure you invite people to attend—but if some can’t make it, it’s not the end of the world (or the Raid). You’ll also still be able to invite Real ID or Battle.net friends cross-realm. Who you choose to bring and what Item Level gear they’ll need to join your merry band is up to you, too—there’s no Item Level requirement for this Raid difficulty.

Dressed to Kill
A new Raid difficulty also means a new Item Level. Flexible mode will award loot with an Item Level that falls between Raid Finder and Normal quality, and will use the Raid Finder’s “per person” loot system, specialization choices, and bonus rolls, so you won’t need to worry about bringing the “wrong” person and having them win that piece of gear you’ve long been waiting for.

You Have the Keys
We plan to unlock the Flexible Raid difficulty in wings, similar to Raid Finder, but on an accelerated timetable. This new difficulty also has a separate Raid lockout from Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, allowing you to take part in all three if you so desire. You’ll also be able to complete portions of your “Glory of the Orgrimmar Raider” raid meta- achievement in Flexible mode as well as in Normal or Heroic to earn cosmetic rewards such as an epic mount. This will allow Raid groups the opportunity to switch off nights between raids to complete achievements. Finally, taking part in Flexible, Normal, or Heroic difficulty will provide access to additional rewards that won’t be available in Raid Finder.

Getting Down to Brass Tacks
As with any in-development feature, we’re continuing to refine how the Flexible Raid system will work, and we look forward to hearing your constructive feedback from your experiences on the Public Test Realm when the new system goes live.
This article was originally published in forum thread: A Raid for All Seasons: Flexible Raid Preview started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 807 Comments
  1. vaccine's Avatar
    Great idea, even if it will just be a levelling alts tool for many and it allows them to continue pinning LFR below the previous tier's heroic ilvl which I found very healthy for the raid game this tier.
  1. Redblade's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bantokar View Post
    Here is hoping this really brings back PUG raiding, I might start doing PvE again.
    PUGs worked just fine in Wrath before they decided to screw with 10 being equal to 25 and sharing lockouts so "people don't feel obligated to run both"...
  1. nimryas's Avatar
    The 10 man raiding guild that I am in has a roster of around 13 players, this is a great feature for future alt runs, apart from the 10man alt runs we already do! I do agree that it might have been better if it would be between say 7 - 25 players. As people said before, the reason why alot of 10man guilds with potential good progress disband is because they fail to fill up the last 1 or 2 spots...

    I think LFR should stay as well, I can see it comming that people making these types of raids would have over exaggerated demands (like high ilvl), which would make it harder for a good amount of the playerbase to get in. In LFR all players have got a chance, unless you're being an AFK dickhead or have an IQ below 70.
  1. mmoc59b5827c7e's Avatar
    "That's it?"

    hahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahhaha ahahahahahhahaahdasfkjs-dagkjdägjdsaghdsa .. man, this is so useless (for me)
  1. tavalus's Avatar
    I have to say that I don't think this is a bad feature, however as others have mentioned it doesn't really affect players with a steady normal/heroic guild. What would have been nice, and possibly added in the future, is to allow this for normal/heroic. My heroic 10 man guild has a 14-15 person roster, so a lot of swapping and sitting is done, if we could run as a 10-15 man run and have difficulty scale that would be awesome or for a 25 man heroic guild who has maybe 3-5 people not show up for whatever reason (holidays, school, etc whatever) they could run as a 20 man for the week. Maybe in the future, who knows. While this feature really wont help me at all, I do think it's a nice thing.
  1. Ferrouswheel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    OK.

    Don't get this AT ALL.

    If your a Normal raider why would you do LFR and this every week?

    If your a Normal raider you will do Normals + LFR or Flex, I personally prefer the idea of doing Flex

    If your a Heroic raider why would you do LFR or Flex every week?

    If your a Heroic raider you will do Heroics or Normal bosses.
    Read the thread, plenty of people have answered that question over and over. If you don't have the time to read it you don't have the time to ask ignorant questions.
  1. Redblade's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by nimryas View Post
    As people said before, the reason why alot of 10man guilds with potential good progress disband is because they fail to fill up the last 1 or 2 spots...
    At least they now feel the pain 25 man guilds have felt since Blizzard in their infinite wisdom decided to make 10 and 25 "be the same", absolutely no sympathy for the 10 man guilds complaining because they can't fill their raids...
  1. kurnie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mange3 View Post
    You probably wont get achievements in there, so you still have to do normal.
    This is not for me, and I hope it's not the big 5.4 feature!
    You’ll also be able to complete portions of your “Glory of the Orgrimmar Raider” raid meta- achievement in Flexible mode as well as in Normal or Heroic to earn cosmetic rewards such as an epic mount.
    this is perfect for my guild. i will stop wiping on normals and just do lfr and flex for the cheevo's.
    win win well done blizzard
  1. Tyriss's Avatar
    I'm concerned that it will be the new "LFR" that raiders need to do to be competitive - ie collecting better-than-LFR Tier sets, weapons or trinkets etc.

    Its a hard one to judge because without the gear being better than LFR it has no point of interest or value. At the same time this will be an awesome tool for alt runs, pugs and casual groups etc.
  1. xebtria's Avatar
    Bantokar, this will most likely be the merged version of both LFR and Normal modes - problem being, they used the bad properties from both.
    this is normal mode raiding with worse people, worse loot than normal modes and higher difficulty than LFR.

    what I want is:
    - only 15 man raiding
    - no heroic modes - heroic difficulties are activated in some way during the normal encounter: ulduar style. basically you do somehting you weren't supposed to do in normal mode, because it makes the boss unnecessarily harder.
    - LFR can stay as it is. with 15 men, though. Methods to activate an "LFR heroic mode" can easily be blocked in LFR (aka XT-002: kill the heart with enough dps to activate heroic mode: well, in LFR the heart stays alive at 1 hp, problem solved).
    - Gating for LFR, no gating in normal modes.

    I'd rather have a raid with 25 bosses which requires the full four month of a major patch to clear (for me as a mediocre raider), than this shit.
  1. Herubrand's Avatar
    Flex raids is a good idea, but not like this. I dont think there is a reason to get another raid lvl. Here is what they should do according to me.

    Keep LFR. I know some people hate it but it fills its purpose. People get to see the content with minimal effort. And if you are a hc or even normal raider you can at some point choose not to run it anymore.

    Normal raids should be flexiable raids. They should also make it scale below 10 on a number that still works for every boss encounter. The problem I see today on my server, is guilds having enough people to keep a stable normal group. My guild broke down since we couldnt find the last 2-3 players to fill our group and we tried recruting for 3 months without finding decent players. So to make normal a flexiable raid would keep people playing and you could fill up your group as you progress without a problem. And it would make it easier to PUG people outside your guild as it wont affect your raid all that much. And if they cant hold their own you can just kick them and carry on.

    With heroics I dont know. Either keep it as it is as heroics should be hard. But it can be hard for guilds to cross over to heroics if they have a raid group of say 15 people and you have to bench people when you start doing them. So maybe making them flexiable could keep guilds together for heroics too. But Im not sure whats best.

    Just my 2 cents.
  1. mmocb1848b600a's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    ilvl are going to start getting so out of control
    Aren't they already?

    LFR = 502 (max. 510)
    Heroic Scenarios = 516 (max. 524)
    Normal = 522 (max. 530)
    Normal Thunderforged = 528 (max. 536)
    Heroic = 535 (max. 543)
    Heroic Thunderforged = 541 (max. 549)
  1. druvirus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vuhdoo View Post
    I hope this isnt the new feature they were going on and on about.
    By "they were going on and on about" do you mean "GC tried to dial back because he didn't want people to think it was anything amazing and be disappointed"?
  1. warlocx's Avatar
    This is exactly what i wanted! I play with a Casual guild and they are not the top of the crop. Normal ToT is proving to be to difficult, i feel this feature is aimed at us, we try to drag as many people into raiding, even if that results into more wiping.

    GGWP blizz
  1. mmoc6f961e454e's Avatar
    This is what LFR should have been. The new feature could have pulled me back in but nothing will change to the game. Guess I'l lurk around for another year.
  1. Emrick's Avatar
    I think this will be awesome. Our guild sometimes has a little more than 10 sign ups which means benching. This way we can all go. I'm all for it! As someone else has said, this is just one of a few features of 5.4.
  1. Keristrasza's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigeri View Post
    My vote goes for removing LFR and adding a interface for people to look for cross-realm flexible raids. Not like a LFR queue, but more of a "X-class here, this and this ilvl and/or experience, got necessary addons and using flasks/etc"-type of self-promotion.
    Yeah because that wouldn't be abused -at all- I would rather deal with people AFKing in LFR and not in normal raids. At least in the LFR they have something to keep them busy, if they did what you suggested new players would get NO where fast because of "NEED TO KNOW RAID LINK ACHIEVE!" Sound familiar? Yeah does to me too.
  1. Dessan's Avatar
    I think this is the wrong direction personally, whilst I like the idea I'd scale it smaller.

    Make it 5 people plus and then you can remove LFR from the game, which would give raiders the ability to raid again without burning out on LFR content because they feel forced to do it in order to progress fast.
    If this were the case, I wouldn't mind the ilvl dip, but the way it's being implemented now feels like it should use the same ilvl as normal modes, since if it scales to group size, you'd potentially hit those nasty dps requirement walls and such.
  1. nekobaka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dingolicious View Post
    What I also wonder is, this is going to make less people want to do LFR (Because they can raid something a little more challenging, in pugs, with as many people as they want and the gear is better).

    My point is, LFR queues are directly influenced by the amount of people queueing for them. Isn't this going to have a massive impact on queue times and potentially cause a snowball effect (LFR queues are too long --> I won't queue for LFR any more --> LFR queues increase further) and potentially even kill LFR eventually? What will Blizzard do if their baby gets sidelined?
    It is part of why dungeons was heavily deemphasized this expansion compared to WotLK and Cata. Even dailies ended up being a better use of time than dungeons in the long run. Besides the pull of development time to make new dungeons the developers said that new dungeons mean better gear and we know that means that players would farm the new dungeons and leave the t14 LFR barren and make LFR look like a failing system. Had Challenge modes offered gear with stats on them then they would have also been at the LFR level at launch which would be another potential pull away from LFR, especially with experienced players who know how to get out of the fire.
  1. Sarevokcz's Avatar
    On paper sounds awesome. In reality, its gonna be problematic, how do you scale mechanics, that arent just about numbers? Like abilties that target one person in 10man and 3 in 25man, where are the tresholds? Is it gonna be more benefical to bring (arbitrary) 16 people so you only have to deal with 2 of said mechanic instead of 3 at 17 people? Some mechanics already are made decently imbalanced in either of difficulties simply because you have to deal with them in different ways? Where are gonna be treshholds for # of healers? Is it gonna be more benefical to run with 4 healers and 12 people or 3 healers and 11 people? etc etc.

    I agree that its very cool design, but Im afraid its gonna be hell to tune it properly. We already saw, how well does "simply scalling down damage on abilities" work in t11, with half of 10mans horribly overtuned because mechanics were meant for 25 people.

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