Raid and Dungeon Q&A, New Cindermane Charger Recruit-A-Friend Mount

Raid and Dungeon Live Q&A
A recap can be found below:

Dungeons
  • Heroic dungeons could use some improvement, but the current problems with them aren't all new in Warlords. In previous expansions there would be catch-up content that rewarded better gear than the heroic dungeons. Even in Mists of Pandaria, Timeless Isle removed any need to step inside Heroic dungeons.
  • Heroic dungeons aren't very useful right now in terms of gearing up.
  • Valor or badges were a reason to run dungeons in the past, but that wasn't a satisfying use of the dungeons. You would run a dungeon that you were far too strong for, which doesn't always feel great.
  • Challenge modes are now a timed run, but can also be used as challenging content for gear progression. Patch 6.1 updated the rewards to item level 660 to keep them relevant. You can't queue for them randomly and can only do one a day, but it is something.
  • A Mythic version of dungeons is something that has been talked about internally, but nothing to announce right now. It would be nice for dungeons to remain relevant later in the expansion. Would increased numbers and item levels be enough, or would the dungeon need new mechanics to really be Mythic?

Loot
  • Getting one random item from a garrison mission every two weeks from a difficulty higher than the one you are doing now is fine.
  • Older Raid Finder content had another color variation of the gear to add some differentiation between difficulties. It wasn't reasonable to expect players to know which color variation was from which difficulty when looking at people around town. In Warlords the Raid Finder set has different art and this is likely to continue going forward.
  • Raid Finder being easier than heroic dungeons and giving better loot is partially due to it having a weekly lockout. You can run heroic dungeons repeatedly to quickly gear up. Raid Finder is a way for players to experience the content and story, as well as a way to earn some meaningful upgrades. If Raid Finder gave worse loot than Heroic dungeons, participation would be lower, players would only run it a few times, and queue times would go up.
  • There is no reason to not use personal loot right now, but players may not want to trust a seemingly random system, even if it is mathematically the same.
  • The way personal loot feels will be improved in future patches, avoiding situations where everyone wins loot or no one wins loot.
  • The raid leader chooses the loot system and they have an incentive to choose Master Loot to be the master looter. If you don't like Master Loot, find another group or make your own that uses personal loot.
  • Personal loot has worked out very well. The short period of time when personal loot was disabled at the start of Warlords showed the benefits of personal loot. Competing with players in the group for loot wasn't fun, it was nicer to work together to kill bosses.
  • Warforged gear was initially used to make the larger raid size more attractive. It is now used as another bonus property to give players a little bit of excitement when killing a boss repeatedly. It also gives groups a power increase over time, even when clearing content on farm.
  • Raid Finder will be better itemized in the future.
  • Spirit could be changed in the future to also do something like increase your spellpower. Items that are Best in Slot for half the raid due to itemization aren't ideal.

Classes
  • Normal and Heroic difficulty tank representation is currently fairly balanced across the different classes. The goal was to make sure all tanks are in the same ballpark in terms of their overall ability to perform in a raid zone as a whole, which was achieved.
  • Some of the perceived tank representation imbalance at the highest end is due to how tank mechanics interact with specific fights and the availability of alts to switch to. Brewmaster being popular in Mythic BRF is partially due to how their mechanics interact with the fights. They can Stagger a lot of the physical damage spikes, giving them an advantage on some of the fights.
  • Raid cooldowns aren't too strong right now, especially those available to non healers. Guilds aren't stacking classes for things like more Smoke Bombs. Some of the healer cooldowns could use a little balancing. Using a big healer cooldown to stabilize the raid after something happens is important for teamwork and cooperation, giving an organized group an advantage over a random PuG where there is no coordination.

Raids
  • Watcher enjoyed Operator Thogar, but in general most fights were well received. Trains make everything cooler, raid bosses included!
  • Itemization in terms of which stats are available don't really affect a group's performance as a whole. It can affect the relative power of specs, as some specs got stronger when Blackrock Foundry came out and gear starved specs got better gear. That situation is something the team will try to minimize going forward, but that affects the individual. In terms of the entire raid group it will average out.
  • Normal and Heroic Blackrock Foundry are no longer too hard for smaller raid sizes. The team has made some changes and is keeping an eye on it though.
  • Raids shouldn't get harder as you add more players, such as they did with the breakpoints in Siege of Orgrimmar. You shouldn't ever have to tell someone they can't come to the raid because it would make the encounter too hard.
  • The Patch 6.0 raids had a smooth progression curve. There weren't any huge brick walls that guilds ran in to. Almost everyone who finished or got through most of Normal Highmaul started on Heroic and people were able to continue progressing there.
  • Having multiple difficulties also has worked out pretty well, as most players and guilds aren't feeling obligated to go back and keep doing easier difficulties.
  • Mythic Kromog originally had pillars spawn far from the boss, but a hotfix moved them closer to Kromog so that melee DPS could damage them too. The encounter is back in a good place now, with a healthy number of melee DPS being in many kills now.
  • The team is keeping an eye on success rates in BRF, with tweaks to the earlier bosses to make them a better entry point. BRF is a continuation of Highmaul so it is tuned around you having normal Highmaul gear or BRF Raid Finder gear. BRF should be accessible if your group is going in in the 650s.

Raid Design
  • Two tanks will be the baseline for raids, with maybe occasional slots for a third. Going over two would make it necessary for guilds to find another tank to continue raiding. Tanks can generally find groups fairly easily or make their own groups.
  • Sometimes needing a third tank is by design, especially in Mythic, but it is sometimes emergent.
  • When designing raid bosses, the team starts with designing a Heroic fight and then changes it to make it harder and different for Mythic and easier for Normal.
  • Sometimes the team designs a fight and was aiming for Heroic, but after testing they realize it is really a Mythic fight. Some abilities are then removed to create the Heroic fight.
  • Over 90% of guilds that raid have a roster of people that normally raid with them. They don't have a ton of players on the bench or lots of alts to swap out.
  • Mythic progression guilds that are pushing hard will likely take advantage of situations where a certain spec or class is better, but the vast majority of guilds aren't doing that and don't need to. The goal is for everyone to have a situation where they can feel awesome.
  • Elevators are a convenient way of going up and down, but the team can explore other means of conveyance. Throne of the Tides was a dungeon where movement force would have been more fun than an elevator.
  • The goal isn't for everyone to have exactly the same capabilities and performance on every fight. The goal is to have different fights where different classes or specs will shine. Some classes or specs will do better on some fights than others and it will average out for the overall majority of players.
  • If a fight can't be completed with a reasonably balanced group and stacking of a class or spec is almost necessary, that is a problem and it will be fixed by tweaking mechanics or narrowing the gap with class and spec niches.

Titles
  • Realm first titles like Obsidian Slayer aren't likely to return.
  • Some of these titles just were awarded to whichever guild leveled to the cap fastest or what players in the guild got to participate in the kill. Realm first guild achievements work better, as they reflect that the entire guild worked towards the achievement.
  • Titles like Death's Demise weren't earned by any guild with just 25 people involved. There were players that were involved in many wipes who may have been swapped out on that particular attempt or day who didn't get the title, which wasn't ideal.
  • Personal titles for defeating bosses on the hardest difficulty become more attainable over time, but they retain prestige in the moment.

Misc
  • There is no Troll dungeon in the next patch because there are no Trolls in Draenor.
  • The shortcuts in challenge modes were a bug that got fixed in Patch 6.1. Normally it would be a bug that should have been fixed, but in this case it will affect challenge mode leaderboards and could have gone without being fixed. The team could bring back the old terrain with a client patch or wipe the leaderboards, which is the direction they are leaning.
  • The internal bug tracking system has 400,000+ bugs that have been fixed over time.
  • The Group Finder tool has worked out really well. Filtering options and the UI will continue to be improved. Initially the filtering was limited as the usage of the group finder grew, but now that it is very popular more filtering might be helpful.
  • The rules for kicking people could use another pass and it is something the team is looking at very closely. Most of the rules are from Patch 3.3 and the game is very different today. Now that loot is personal and guaranteed to be sent to you even if you are kicked from the group, there isn't any reason for players to kick other players to abuse loot rolls. Some of the restrictions could be removed.
  • The team's focus is on reducing the gap between the final content patch and the next expansion. Siege of Orgrimmar was way way too long. This expansion will have whatever number of raid tiers is necessary to avoid that long gap. Six or seven months is long enough for most big raid tiers. Thirteen months is way too long.
  • Timewalker is still something being worked on and maybe there will be something to talk about in the near future.
  • The current way the World First race works (community driven) is fine. There are too many variables to ensure perfect fairness for an official World First.
  • Community created raids aren't likely to happen, but the team takes into account feedback when designing raids.


New Cindermane Charger Rides into Recruit-A-Friend
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We’ve just added a new reward to the Recruit-A-Friend (RAF) reward stables—the incendiary Cindermane Charger. Found on the remote fragmented islands of the Firelands, these smoldering steeds run with the fury of Ragnaros—perfect for blazing a trail across Azeroth and Draenor.

The Cindermane Charger is only available through the RAF program, so get to recruiting now to earn your new mount!


Learn more about the Recruit-A-Friend program here.

Blue Tweets
A nice tweet from the official World of Warcraft account today:

This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid and Dungeon Q&A, New Cindermane Charger Recruit-A-Friend Mount started by chaud View original post
Published on 2015-02-27 06:59 PM
60 Comments
Comments 60 Comments
  1. Silverhope444's Avatar
    recolor of the astral steed... no thanks
  1. Eliazer681's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaneesh View Post
    I swear to god, these recaps are starting to sound more and more like social engineering. They are trying to suggest to us the popular opinion, instead of debating the better-established ones.

    The reason Personal Loot isn't being used is that no one wants their gearing experience to "even out" over the course of a month. They want the thrill of seeing their prized item drop, the equal opportunity of rolling for it, etc... they want it now, after putting all those efforts into downing a boss. Not after downing the boss 3 or 4 times (when the math decides to not be kind).

    Master Looter (when not dealing with ninjas) remains the overwhelmingly popular choice for a reason. The only time Personal Loot is used, is for when the Raid Leaders don't want to deal with the micromanagement/drama. Those groups typically take much longer to fill.

    It boggles my mind that this is even an issue of contention at the dev table. They must think Personal Loot is better for sub retention. Maybe on paper it is, but everybody knows MMOs are about chasing carrots and Personal Loot kills the carrot.
    I disagree. You know what's awesome? Killing a boss, right clicking him and maybe picking up my item with no strings attached, just for me. Maybe throwing a bonus roll at it if I really want it.

    You know what really sucks? Seeing an item I finally want drop (in the same amount of runs as the above scenario, pretty much) and /rolling a 12, while another player in my class that died 20% into the fight or barely did damage wins the roll and walks off with something he doesn't deserve. Or a PuG raid leader deciding his guildmate gets the loot, just 'cause.

    Some people don't prefer that kind of scenario. There are arguments for both sides.
  1. TheTaurenOrc's Avatar
    The leaders choose the loot system and they have an incentive to choose Master Loot to be the master looter. If you don't like that loot style, find another group or make your own that uses personal loot.
    Woooooowwwww. Really?

    Just as toxic as the community then, very disappointed and evidence of how out of touch these guys are.

    Prevent changing loot type during the encounter? Nope.
    Use an anonymous voting system when trying to change to master loot? Nope.
    Tell your customers it's their problem? Yep.

    I am just throwing this out there, it was Ion right? Totally something he would say.
  1. ZeroWashu's Avatar
    the problem with their fixed bug count is that it likely covers text errors
  1. AngryLakitu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaneesh View Post
    I swear to god, these recaps are starting to sound more and more like social engineering. They are trying to suggest to us the popular opinion, instead of debating the better-established ones.

    The reason Personal Loot isn't being used is that no one wants their gearing experience to "even out" over the course of a month. They want the thrill of seeing their prized item drop, the equal opportunity of rolling for it, etc... they want it now, after putting all those efforts into downing a boss. Not after downing the boss 3 or 4 times (when the math decides to not be kind).

    Master Looter (when not dealing with ninjas) remains the overwhelmingly popular choice for a reason. The only time Personal Loot is used, is for when the Raid Leaders don't want to deal with the micromanagement/drama. Those groups typically take much longer to fill.

    It boggles my mind that this is even an issue of contention at the dev table. They must think Personal Loot is better for sub retention. Maybe on paper it is, but everybody knows MMOs are about chasing carrots and Personal Loot kills the carrot.
    I don't think they have actually released the algorithms (if they have I'd love to see them), so if they say the math is identical I don't see how Master Looter provides anything other than a false sense of control; everything being equal.

    I'm going to make numbers up here, but it is more the idea I am trying to impart based on the statement that the "math is identical". If you don't believe that, that's fine I'm not here to decide whether or not one favors conspiracies or improve trust issues one might -- justifiably -- have. This also ignores the skewing that abusing the Master Looter system can have.

    Constants:
    One drop per five loot-eligible raid members.
    Loot may only be assigned to class/spec appropriate users.

    Assume a group of 15 loot eligible.
    And for the sake of this example we'll target healers and use spirit gear.
    Assume a group of 3 loot eligible healers.

    At the highest level, there are two systems that need to be built here. What is dropped? and Who is it assigned to?

    What is dropped
    If the math is the same, the high level, simplistic algorithm or base business rule applied is: 15 / 5 = 3 drops.

    You then may have a sub algorithm that calculates what type of pieces drop based on the group composition, but regardless this principle doesn't need to be fleshed out and the algorithm for the AMOUNT of pieces that drop applies to both Personal and ML.

    A spirit trinket drops.
    Who is it assigned to
    The difference between Personal and ML here is where I think the false sense of control comes in.

    If the math is the same, the high level, simplistic algorithm or base business rule applied is: Eligible members generate values and the highest value wins.

    In Personal Loot, the computer rolls the dice and in Master Looter you roll the dice.

    Now, does the algorithm account for people that already have the trinket and wouldn't roll in Master Looter? Maybe not, but at the highest level and taking as truth "the math is the same", any loot-eligible members will have the exact same chances in Personal Loot or ML and your tangible benefits of each are:

    PL -> No loot abuse.
    ML -> Chances improve when loot-eligible members generate loot, but don't roll on it.

    Edit:
    I think the statement they make about how it feels is very telling. I would guess that if they find a way to mimic the rolling process or feeling of control one has in ML (maybe even an Opt-Out option like Need/Greed/Pass to help account for those not wanting a drop but contributing to it dropping) they will do away with ML in everything except Mythic or 90% Guild runs -- where gear allocation needs finer control -- because they like Personal Loot better as a system.

    Yes, the one drop vs many drop dichotomy exists and is assumed to be balanced over time by the Personal Loot algorithm so you certainly have a point about chasing carrots, but I think the bigger stigma is that the math behind the systems isn't equal and I'd say that is the larger deterrence to Personal Loot adoption. It is true getting fully geared in one go is a great feeling, but a bunch of people don't expect that to happen and would be okay with gearing up over the course of a month. Especially those not necessarily looking to progress outside of their current difficulty.

    I'd suggest that any groups that are not 90-95% Guild Groups or Mythic Groups should be mandated to use Personal Loot because the only reason that justifies using Master Looter in any form of PUG group is selfish in nature -- stealing drops for friends or fully gearing yourself in one go -- and that leads to loot abuse.
  1. ejpaints's Avatar
    The only thing ML does is allow for control over who gets the loot. For a guild group that's generally how people prefer it to work. But, for pug situations that's only good if you're one of the people benefitting. I've seen plenty of people get passed over simply because the master looted gave the item to their buddy.

    If I'm running with my guild it's master loot all the way. But, if I join a pug group that's a different story. I don't don't trust someone I don't know to be honest with it bc let's get real, people in this very thread have done the same kinda crap.
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    Yeah, heard about Leonard Nimoy's passing on the radio this morning. =(

    Good tribute pic.
  1. CheeseSandwich's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliazer681 View Post
    Of course, you mean 6-7 months from launch, which is pretty much normal. Unless you were just trying to stir the pot by being ignorant...who would do something like that?
    No ignorance, just going on Blizz's 'a raid tier can last 6-7 months'. They just released BRF, have you killed myhic yet?
  1. Majesco's Avatar
    "Normal / Heroic BRF are no longer too hard for smaller raid sizes"

    What exactly does this mean? What did they change that I missed?

    We run with a raid of 12 people and BRF seems very unforgiving. When we add a few pugs and get up to 17+ it seems the fights are cake.

    I spoke to an old friend and his guild is feeling the same way.

    Is this just us? Am I missing something?
  1. Gilian's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolgrim View Post
    I wish they would stop using this stupid argument, "what's fun" is totally subjective.
    Yes but you are in a group with four other people. Did you do MoP heroics during SoO? I was in groups with elemental shamans who queued as healers because they could zerg everything down so fast and had such strong offheals that there was no dedicated healer needed and they would also be tanking everything. On top of that such a group would make massive pulls, as in pull all trash mobs up to the boss and do it ala challenge mode world record style.

    Yes I thought that was fun on one side because it was pretty ridiculous and you were extremely powerful just by yourself. On the other hand it ruined those dungeons completely.
    I can also understand that anyone who was new and wanted to enjoy the content wouldn't find this fun at all. They would not be able to keep up and would basically not be doing anything at all really.

    At the moment I am already making huge pulls with my ilvl 638 blood DK and tanks or hybrid tank/dps with raid gear, ilvl 670ish, are already soloing heroics. So next tier these dungeons will be a big joke once again if these players that overgear it with 50-70 ilvls use LFG to obtain currency for gear or upgrades.
  1. valkye's Avatar
    veeeery interesting... but just want 10m Mythic back!
  1. Nelle's Avatar
    LLAP guys, never forget!
  1. Eace's Avatar
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The team's focus is on reducing the gap between the final content patch and the next expansion. Siege of Orgrimmar was way way too long. This expansion will have whatever number of raid tiers is necessary to avoid that situation. Six or seven months is long enough for most big raid tiers.
    Did anyone else feel relieved and happy to hear this? I mean, they straight up admit that they fucked up bad with the end of MoP, and they're not trying to make any excuses about it. Plus that's almost a promise that it's not going to happen in WoD.

    I think this is why 6.1 is so content-light, if you will. I think they're holding on to some content in case they need to churn out something really quick to avoid the now typical end of the xpac situation.
  1. thorvath's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eace View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The team's focus is on reducing the gap between the final content patch and the next expansion. Siege of Orgrimmar was way way too long. This expansion will have whatever number of raid tiers is necessary to avoid that situation. Six or seven months is long enough for most big raid tiers.
    Did anyone else feel relieved and happy to hear this? I mean, they straight up admit that they fucked up bad with the end of MoP, and they're not trying to make any excuses about it. Plus that's almost a promise that it's not going to happen in WoD.

    I think this is why 6.1 is so content-light, if you will. I think they're holding on to some content in case they need to churn out something really quick to avoid the now typical end of the xpac situation.
    They said the same thing after Dragon Soul. And Icecrown.

    The only time they did more than apologize after the fact that a patch took too long was in BC when they added Sunwell so there wasn't 10 months of Black Temple (even then for most people it was probably 2 years of Kara).
  1. Fayenoor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryLakitu View Post

    I'd suggest that any groups that are not 90-95% Guild Groups or Mythic Groups should be mandated to use Personal Loot because the only reason that justifies using Master Looter in any form of PUG group is selfish in nature -- stealing drops for friends or fully gearing yourself in one go -- and that leads to loot abuse.
    If you don't assume blatant "loot abuse" as a necessary part of the Master Loot system, in every way, Master Loot > Personal Loot and more so as the Tier progresses further in and gear slots start filling up with loot.

    E.g. Person A only needs say a shoulder and a leg from a raid run. Person B only needs a ring and a neck. With Master Looter, odds of both A and B completing their set is higher than with personal loot -- the reason like you pointed out is loot eligibility vs loot need. With personal Loot, A can keep getting the same ring (which B needs) over and over again every run and B can keep getting the shoulder than A needs. Both are dissatisfied. With Master Looter, the ML can assign the ring to the right person and the shoulder to the right person. So, ML always win in a purely fair system.


    Master Looter corruption (like any form of corruption) taints the system. This is why OpenRaid is so much better than WoW Group finder for Pugging content. Systems like OpenRaid run raids with Master Looter using Raid Leaders who have a very strong history of fairness (else they will be taken apart in their feedback).


    On the other hand, one possible way of making Personal Loot more lucrative is to allow an "opt out of loot" option. I.e. boss X drops nothing of interest for me. I can choose to "opt out of loot" on Boss X but still help with the kill. This way th Personal Loot system won't roll the dice and give an item which I don't need.
  1. papajohn4's Avatar
    Raid Finder being easier than heroic dungeons and giving better loot is partially due to it having a weekly lockout. You can run heroic dungeons repeatedly to quickly gear up. Raid Finder is a way for players to experience the content and story, as well as earning some meaningful upgrades. If Raid Finder gave worse loot than Heroic dungeons, participation would be lower, players would only run it a few times, and queue times would go up.
    So dungeons will never be a progression path again, like TBC and WotLK because of LFR...Is this how your next expansions will roll as well? This is your casual content? Run LFR once a week and pay us the sub? pf... and I was confident about WoD..Back to FFXIV I guess
  1. Eace's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    So dungeons will never be a progression path again, like TBC and WotLK because of LFR...Is this how your next expansions will roll as well? This is your casual content? Run LFR once a week and pay us the sub? pf... and I was confident about WoD..Back to FFXIV I guess
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    • Heroic dungeons are another area that could use some improvement. They aren't very useful right now in terms of gearing up. Valor or badges were a reason to run dungeons in the past, but they weren't a great way to do it. You would run a dungeon that you were far too strong for, which isn't fun. Challenge modes have a niche as challenging content for gear progression. You can't queue for them randomly and can only do one a day, but it is something.
    • A Mythic version of dungeons is something that has been talked about internally, but nothing to announce right now. It would be nice for dungeons to remain relevant later in the expansion. Would increased numbers and item levels be enough, or would the dungeon need new mechanics to really be Mythic?
    This is the first thing on the front page. I do agree with you that LFR shouldn't render HC dungeons completely useless for casual players and alts, and although that's pretty much the situation now, I'm hoping they can fix it going forward.
  1. bryroo's Avatar
    Happy to hear they're still working on the Time Walker system. That would be a big plus in my book.
  1. AngryLakitu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Fayenoor View Post
    If you don't assume blatant "loot abuse" as a necessary part of the Master Loot system, in every way, Master Loot > Personal Loot and more so as the Tier progresses further in and gear slots start filling up with loot.

    E.g. Person A only needs say a shoulder and a leg from a raid run. Person B only needs a ring and a neck. With Master Looter, odds of both A and B completing their set is higher than with personal loot -- the reason like you pointed out is loot eligibility vs loot need. With personal Loot, A can keep getting the same ring (which B needs) over and over again every run and B can keep getting the shoulder than A needs. Both are dissatisfied. With Master Looter, the ML can assign the ring to the right person and the shoulder to the right person. So, ML always win in a purely fair system.


    Master Looter corruption (like any form of corruption) taints the system. This is why OpenRaid is so much better than WoW Group finder for Pugging content. Systems like OpenRaid run raids with Master Looter using Raid Leaders who have a very strong history of fairness (else they will be taken apart in their feedback).


    On the other hand, one possible way of making Personal Loot more lucrative is to allow an "opt out of loot" option. I.e. boss X drops nothing of interest for me. I can choose to "opt out of loot" on Boss X but still help with the kill. This way th Personal Loot system won't roll the dice and give an item which I don't need.
    I completely agree with you about the idea of loot eligibility vs loot need, but I think what I was kind of driving at was the idea to dissuade stalwart belief that Personal Loot is empirically a bad system. By taking "math is the same" as the basis for comparison, it would stand that they could have some kind of algorithm to help with this and that maybe we shouldn't just hate Personal Loot because it /feels/ unjust or different. Doubt in the 'infallible' Master Looter system is all I am trying to cast, because I think just as it is healthy to be skeptical of Personal Loot's secretive algorithms, I think it is fair to be optimistic they could have good methods in place as well.

    I'd love to see a pre-raid, battleground exclusion type system in place to augment the Personal Loot system. Maybe that is too complex, but ultimately a way that loot-eligibility still counts, but loot distribution calculations are adjusted. They could even include a visible representation of the computer rolls as well. Click a button and it mimics a /roll command even though the actual processing has already happened in the background. To me, the bonus roll experience greatly exceeds that of the Master Looter and I'd love to see them blend it into the core Personal Loot experience as well.
  1. arcaneshot's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    So dungeons will never be a progression path again, like TBC and WotLK because of LFR...Is this how your next expansions will roll as well? This is your casual content? Run LFR once a week and pay us the sub? pf... and I was confident about WoD.
    They weren't a progression path, it was purely used as catch-up. So was the dungeons in Cata and the Timeless Isle in MoP.

    Anyone who was raiding at the time couldn't find a use for any of the loot in those late-stage dungeons.
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