Patch 6.2 PTR Notes - April 17, New Monument, Blizzcon Tickets Saturday, Blue Posts

Trials will be removed in a future patch!

Blackrock Spire Heroic Boss Guides - Omokk, Drakkisath, Rend Blackhand

This Week's Hero Rotation, Heroes of the Dorm: Super 16 Wrap-Up

Patch 6.2 PTR Notes - April 17
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Timewalking
  • Timewalking will be available during select weekend holiday events and allows characters to queue up for a randomly selected old-school dungeon with a twist: your character’s power and gear scales down to the dungeon's level on Heroic difficulty. However, your character retains all of your skills and talents. Emerge victorious, and you will walk away with old loot that is scaled up to your character's level!
  • Additional rewards for Timewalking are still in-testing, such as a level 100 quest that rewards a Seal of Tempered Fate per weekend.
  • Over the coming weeks, Timewalking for the following dungeons will be available for testing on the PTR.
    • The following Burning Crusade dungeons are available for characters level 71 and up.
      • The Arcatraz
      • Black Morass
      • Mana-Tombs
      • The Shattered Halls
      • The Slave Pens
    • The following Wrath of the Lich King dungeons are available for characters level 81 and up.
      • Ahn’kahet: The Old Kingdom
      • Gundrak
      • Halls of Lightning
      • The Nexus
      • Utgarde Pinnacle

Raids and Dungeons
Challenge Mode
  • Challenger’s Strongbox obtained before Patch 6.2 will all become rusted. Rusted strongboxes can no longer be opened and may be sold to a vendor for 50 gold.

PvP
Ashran
  • New Area: Ashran Excavation and New Event: Apexis Marks
    • At certain times, spirits of fallen Arakkoa haunt the Ashran Excavation. Defeat them and bring proof of their demise to Rukmaz, the ghostly caretaker of the Apexis vault. First team to show Rulmaz 50 marks wins.
  • Reward Changes
    • Winning an event now awards Honor instead of Conquest.
    • Defeating Grand Marshal Tremblade or High Warlord Volrath no longer awards a Gleaming Ashmaul Strongbox.
    • New Weekly Quest: Slay them All!
      • Defeat 300 enemy players. Awards Conquest.
    • New Weekly Quest: Ashran Dominance
      • Win each event in Ashran and defeat the enemy faction leader. Awards Conquest and a Gleaming Ashmaul Strongbox.
    • New Repeatable Quest: Continue the Dominance
      • Win each event in Ashran and defeat the enemy faction leader. Awards Conquest.
  • General Ashran Changes
    • Players are now automatically placed in a raid when entering Ashran.

Professions
  • New Ranks for Warlords Crafted Items
    • Two new ranks of upgrades have been added to Warlords Crafted items, "Mighty" for rank 5 at item level 700, and "Savage" for rank 6 at item level 715.
    • Crafting the new upgrade items requires Felblood, a new reagent that can be obtained through the Barn.
    • The new recipes can be purchased from visiting Garrison traders.
  • Upgrade Item Consolidation
    • “Greater” rank 3 and “Powerful” rank 4 upgrade items have been consolidated together. A rank 2 upgrade item can now be used to upgrade a Warlords Crafted item to rank 4.
      • For example, Burnished Essence can now upgrade a rank 1 leatherworking item to rank 2, a rank 2 item to rank 3, or a rank 3 item to rank 4.
    • Rank 3 and 4 upgrade items can no longer be crafted and existing items have become unstable. These unstable items can be used to create the appropriate rank 2 upgrade item and refund the materials used to craft it.
  • Warlords Crafting Material Changes
    • Greatly increased the output of the following crafting materials created through a daily cooldown.
      • Alchemical Catalyst
      • Burnished Leather
      • Gearspring Parts
      • Hexweave Cloth
      • Taladite Crystal
      • Temporal Crystal
      • Truesteel Ingot
      • War Paints
      • Sorcerous Air
      • Sorcerous Earth
      • Sorcerous Fire
      • Sorcerous Water
      • Savage Blood
    • A number of recipes that use crafting materials created through a daily cooldown now requires less materials.

Jewelcrafting
  • Added a new Immaculate tier of gems of epic quality that provides +75 bonus to a given stat.
  • Players can unlock the ability to craft the new gems by completing a short questline that starts at an Arakkoa encampment as soon as they enter Tanaan Jungle.
  • After completing the questline, Jewelcrafters can craft Versatility gems. To unlock additional gem recipes, players must find or purchase Gemcutter Modules from various sources.
  • Jewelcrafters also have a chance to learn one of the new recipes each time the Gemcutting Construct crafts a gem.

Mage (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
General
  • Frostfire Bolt now deals 30% more damage.
Frost
  • Frostbolt now deals 30% more damage.

Paladin (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Holy
  • Holy Shock's mana cost has increased by 50%.

Shaman (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Armor Sets
  • PvP 2-piece set bonus for Elemental Shaman is now the PvP 4-piece set bonus and has been replaced. New PvP 2-piece set bonus: Reduces the cooldown of Hex by 15 seconds.
  • PvP 4-piece set bonus for Elemental Shaman has been replaced by the old PvP 2-piece set bonus. While Ascendance is active, the Shaman is immune to silence and interrupt effects.

Warlock (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Armor Sets
  • PvP 2-piece set bonus for Destruction Warlocks has been redesigned. Getting stunned, silenced, interrupted, or feared now generates 1 Burning Ember. Can only occur once every 15 seconds.

Patch 6.2 - Legendary Ring Monument
Patch 6.2 adds another monument to your garrison for completing the legendary ring quest.



Patch 6.2 - New Alliance Garrison Exit
Patch 6.2 adds a new exit to the Alliance garrison that heads down to the new ship yard.



Blizzcon 2015 Tickets On Sale Saturday - 10 AM PDT / 1 PM EDT
Blizzcon 2015 Tickets go on sale again Sturday at 10 AM PDT / 1 PM EDT on Eventbrite. This year they will cost $199 plus taxes and fees for the November 6th - 7th event in Anaheim. If you aren't sure who is going, you have until August 14 to change the name and email addresses of attendees.



BlizzCon Ticket Sales Update
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
Hey everyone,

We’ve heard feedback from some people trying to get BlizzCon tickets Wednesday that the Eventbrite waiting room system wasn’t working as expected for everyone. We’ve been discussing the issue with Eventbrite, and they provided the following update:

The waiting room was not working as intended for some people during Wednesday’s BlizzCon ticket sale. We’ve been actively working to address the issue, and we have implemented some updates that we believe will resolve things for Saturday’s sale. We’ll be keeping a close eye on how the waiting room is functioning during the next sale, and we apologize to anyone who was inconvenienced on Wednesday.

Patch 6.2 Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Timewalking
Isn't timewalking just continued rehashing of old content and calling it new? Call me crazy, but I feel like Blizzard could have made new dungeons to release in 6.2.
We're not all that concerned about how you want to label content after seeing it laid out on paper. There are people out there who are quick to claim that we're pretending "old content" is once again "new content." It's not about old and new. It's about giving players more options and new ways to experience content in World of Warcraft, even if that means creating new systems to experience existing content in different ways.

The common argument, it seems, is that we try to cut corners by "rehashing old content" in order to avoid creating new content. This is a misnomer. Configuring a game system that allows players to experience the dungeons from Wrath of the Lich King and The Burning Crusade at max level, and be appropriately rewarded for it, isn't comparable to designing a new dungeon, especially in terms of art resources -- of which plenty were used to develop Patch 6.2 content.

Timewalking is a new feature. It allows you to access existing content in new and relevant ways. We've not claimed otherwise. If you want to throw a negative label on it, that's up to you. But don't claim that we're pretending this sufficiently absolves us from having to create "new content."

Timewalking also shouldn't give players license to dismiss the actual new content in Tanaan and Hellfire. It's an added feature that we're confident many players will enjoy, as it has the simple goal of providing max-level players with more things to do.

TLDR: It's not very useful to put so much effort into bickering cynically about what content is old or new, and how we're framing that in our patch features list. It'd be a lot more constructive to talk about whether or not new features -- even those that involve existing content -- are fun.

Hey Zar, if you have the time to answer another timewalker question, I'd like to know if the heroics will actually pose a challenge. I just don't want to feel like I'm running say Utgrade Keep and flying past it like I'm in full t10.
We don't want them to be intensely challenging, but we don't want them to be faceroll either. We're in the process of testing the item level to which level-100 players should be scaled down. We're erring on the side of scaling item levels a little lower than they probably would be if one was running these dungeons at their actual level, but that's mostly to try and compensate for the fact that level-100 characters will have extra abilities and talents that they wouldn't at the lower levels, which will be advantageous in some situations.

It does make me curious though, since we would be going back to these dungeons with our current level 100 skill set, is there potential for one or two new mechanics for certain bosses in these dungeons?
As it stands now, no. We're not planning to add new mechanics or creatures. These are literally the existing Heroic versions of the 10 selected dungeons with players' item levels scaled down as I described above.

Will you guys Timewarp these dungeons for every expansion that will be release from now until the end of the World (of Warcraft), or is this a feature for WoD only?
We don't have specific plans to share as of yet. I think it's safe to say that we'd like for this feature to receive updates and be carried onward into the future of WoW, but we'll see how things play out in 6.2.

Why not scale back the talents and abilities? So if you are playing at level 70, you have only the talents and abilities you would have at level 70?
That's not something we want to do. It can be weird and jarring for us to essentially de-level your character's abilities and talents for a specific type of content. We want entering these dungeons at level 100 to feel relatively seamless, aside from a little math under the hood changing your power relative to the content you're running. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

PvP Live Developer Q&A Questions Thread
Q4: Why can't abilities just be split into PvE and PvP versions? 11:52
This is probably the single most important question, and he only gave it about 1.5 minutes of response. "We're not into that solution" "We don't want to see that level of complexity" ... Seems like making a PvP and PvE version of an ability will decrease the complexity of trying to balance them against one another. Will it take a lot of work up front? Yeah, probably. But the end result seems totally worth it. Players won't have to watch as their class gets gutted due to changes made for the purposes of an aspect of the game they care nothing about.
We definitely agree with the underlying sentiment that PvE and PvP should be something that can be tuned separately. We just don't agree that splitting every spell into a PvE and PvP version is the right way to accomplish that goal. There are less cumbersome ways to accomplish that. We're kicking a few ideas around, but it's a bit too early still to share much else.

But yeah, just to be clear: we agree that PvE and PvP are inherently different game types and will often require separate tuning.

I'm not disputing that separating PvE and PvP spells could work. We just have some ideas we think could work better. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Patch 6.2 Change Explanations
How does Blizzard justify making such huge class changes in 6.2 with no communication with the players, and think that that's just okay? The changes to Windwalkers and Brewmasters aren't just number tweaks. They greatly impact how the class will function after the next patch. Why wouldn't you take the time to explain why you're gutting Brewmasters the way that you are?

We're just supposed to go on the ptrs to find that maybe with the new raid trinket, legendary ring and set bonuses, our DPS will remain acceptable? This is just bad game design and I'm not pleased at all with the way that Blizzard is handling class balance.
There's a reason we have a healthy testing phase for large content patches. Our goal is to share more on our design philosophy after further feedback gathering, testing, and tweaking, prior to these changes actually going live.

It's not realistic for us to explain our intent behind every design decision or new feature that's to come in a future patch, as so many details are ironed out over the course of testing. It's understandable that people love to scrutinize patch notes, but there's not much to gain from getting too upset over the first iteration of PTR patch notes.

Do you guys realize how many people your going to lose if you go through with these changes? I really don't think you do.
I realize I've heard that sorta thing every patch for 10 years now.

It also baffles me that Blizz, with all the resources they have at their disposal, can't hire someone to post on the forums for 2-3 hours a day addressing these things when they get released.
Sometimes I wish it were that simple! Providing official responses in somewhat knee-jerk fashion to knee-jerk feedback is oftentimes not beneficial, and can easily make matters worse. Effective communication is about much more than transparency and acknowledgement.

You get knee-jerk feedback because you make boneheaded knee-jerk buffs and nerfs which often comes with no explanation. Effective communication has to come from both sides. If you guys want effective communication from the player base, start making the effort yourselves.
I was referring to us when talking about effective communication in that context. Of course we're far from perfect in that regard. And we never will be when nearly all of our communications are subject to the court of public opinion. But I understand your point. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Tanaan Story
I'm more concerned about it being a storyless pit where there's nothing to do but camp for a mount.

Because that's what TI was. It had no value to max level players with even LFR gear because the RNG nature of the 496's made them pretty bad even for people with the 483's out of MSV.
That's feedback we certainly heard and took to heart following Timeless Isle. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
PvP Gearing and Progression
The PvP gearing process and general idea of character progression are things we talk about and iterate on a lot. Even just looking at how things changed from Cataclysm to Mists, and then from Mists to Warlords, you can see a lot of tinkering and experimentation. We think we've improved with each expansion (particularly with things like the catch-up cap), but don't think we've quite nailed it yet, so we're still looking into ways to improve.

Now, I wouldn't expect any major changes to gearing in 6.2, but it's something we're definitely talking about for the future.

Any chance you can explain holinka's thoughts on the 27k conquest vendor being convoluted? Not a single person I've spoken to thought it was a complex system. It's a very easy 1 sentence answer if someone doesn't understand it; "Once you acqure 27000 conquest points over the course of the season, you are then able to buy conquest items for honor instead".
It's actually a pretty good example of the sort of weird challenge a game like WoW faces sometimes.

There are a TON of people who play WoW. If even a small percentage of those players have a problem with something, that can still be a very large number. In Mists, our CS department was getting a pretty regular stream of tickets from players who were confused about why the vendors weren't willing to sell them gear.

It's the sort of thing that is generally not a problem for the type of person who reads forums and patch notes, but causes a lot of confusion for the people who might not even be aware that the 27k achievement exists in the first place. So, our thinking with Warlords was that, due to gear swapping primary stats and the fact that players who are fully geared generally have extra Conquest anyway, that particular implementation was no longer necessary.

That said, we're hearing the feedback loud and clear that you guys want to have more control over your secondary stats and the ability to gear up alternate specs. We'd rather not go back to the 27k vendor as a solution, but are discussing other options. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Cross-Realm Zones
Competing for quest mobs and nodes while leveling is not my idea of fun. I should not have to login at 2am-5am just to get anything done.
If quests are unable to be completed beyond reasonable respawn timers due to other players that is what we would consider to be a bug, and we'd appreciate you reporting any specific cases.

Resource nodes are however first come first serve, and there will be times when someone else reaches one before you.

I'm curious what purpose CRZ even serves now that there are almost no outdoor elite areas/group quests that would require more than one person to handle. Just to see people?
The intent with CRZ has always been to ensure outdoor zones--in this Massively Multiplayer game--actually have some other people in them, yes. The natural effect of everyone always leveling higher and into higher content is that, or course, most everyone is at max level doing max level things. Being new to the game or even just leveling an alt and not seeing another player for the days or weeks until you're closer to max level isn't a great experience.

It's to reduce server costs. Instead of having to run 20 instances of a zone, they only have to run one.
That's not how it works. Each realm still runs its own zone, and it coalesces players together based on a number of factors like if they're in a group, or their home realm zone population, etc. If a bunch of realms are 'grouped' for CRZ, not everyone in each zone on each of those realms is automatically always in the same 'instance' with each other. It's not simple, and definitely not cost effective--but that isn't the goal. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

An Inside Job Quest Cinematic Missing
If I remember correctly we didn't have it there because it was a big secret until someone unlocked it by completing the quest, and then it was unlocked in everyone's client. If we had anything datamineable about it our fun secret would not be as secret or fun. I haven't checked in 6.2 yet but it should probably be added to the Chronicler list then. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Higher Difficulties in LFR
but it's on a more manageable level, stress wise.
You're putting yourself out here on a public forum, that takes some guts, I have to imagine you'd be capable of running your own group where negativity and tempers are met with whatever response you deem appropriate. Maybe instead of "Don't suck" the group could be called "Be nice or get kicked". What i think needs to happen is for people to take charge of group creation and create the experiences they'd like to have. There's only so much we can do to help lessen social pressures, in a game that is very centrally based on group coordination and player interactions, before those interactions are effectively just taken away. (Which is maybe an option, you could probably close your chat window and not be any worse for the wear a lot of times.)

A higher difficulty LFR will only raise stress levels in those raids, and make them less successful. They'll cause total breakdowns and disbands and ... it's just not going to be the best of both worlds. Difficult content requires coordination and communication, and that's possible with positive and productive attitudes, and every player is capable of making that a reality for them and everyone else in the group.

Does that not raise the question of why don't they? I constantly see players who clear lfr and just seem to give up. Even something as simple as trying to find 4 other people to do a challenge mode is far beyond anything they seem capable of.

If everyone is able to why do you believe so few choose to do so?
Good question... Well some people are fine only seeing LFR. They don't see any point in doing harder content; that's not why they play. For the other people that would like to but don't, the easy/cynical answer is probably because it takes time and effort, but probably more accurately it's likely for some of the same reasons students don't raise their hand, or why class signup rates are higher when they are kept private--people are generally afraid of other people judging them. Lots of people want an easy, smooth, and successful run, but aren't willing to put up with wipes, learning fights, and challenges. Especially with a bunch of strangers. That's where guilds and friends are the biggest difference versus random players, and progressing with other people--even if you've only ever talked to them on mumble--is worlds apart from running with a random group. And it doesn't even have to be a guild now!

But if someone legitimately wants a better experience, and is willing to put in the effort to achieve it... I'm not sure I could answer why they don't. That's a good question.

What do you think? (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

WoW Tokens
We don't allow you to have both Tokens (Shop and AH) at the same time to avoid any kind of purchasing or redemption confusion. If you have the cash to buy a Token from the Shop but also need subscription time, a month of subscription is less expensive and so it's probably recommended you go that route instead. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
PvP
Like PvP? Perhaps consider grabbing Arena Grand Master and Master Pit Fighter (Muffinus)
Perhaps they could be made relevant at 100? AGM & MPF have no reason to be grabbed aside from the gold value now days.
Perhaps that is a good idea (Muffinus)

Once I finished all the quests in Ashran, I vowed never to go back. So I will defer to more seasoned Ashran players to answer this
Your input might be just as interesting. Obviously something turned you off right away. What was it? (Muffinus)

I never even understood how it worked. I preferred Wintergrasp a lot more too.
Do you understand it better now? If yes, what was the catalyst? If no, what questions remain? (Muffinus)
Winterspring is a good example. I used to make sure I never missed the weekly Winterspring. I avoid Ashran like the plague.
Wintergrasp Ok, this is good, discussion is good. Why do you prefer A over B? How did you feel about Tol Barad? (Muffinus)
TB was okay. You could queue up as a group of 3 friends and actually make a difference. Doesn't feel that way in Ashran.
.If you could change 1-3 major things in Ashran, what would you change? (Muffinus)
Have the High Warlord/Grand Marshal drop something of value. It feels so pointless to do Ashran now. One side dominates
What would be an item of value to you, at this point in the expac cycle? (Muffinus)

Professions
Do you enjoy fishing in WoW? What do you like about it? Where do you fish at? (Muffinus)
The Lurker Below in Serpentshrine Cavern is probably the best use of fishing in the game.
or old ZG and the rare feral druid tank staff (Muffinus)

Misc
Doing Garr in oh man such memories, we used to have one hunter (mark each target for each warlock, took 30min (Muffinus)
seeing who could ice block the highest in the air after an explosion was the best as a mage
I was fire spec because I didn't have a DPS meter so I didn't care. What a weird world that was. (Muffinus)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 6.2 PTR Notes - April 17, New Monument, Blizzcon Tickets Saturday, Blue Posts started by chaud View original post
Published on 2015-04-18 01:58 AM
79 Comments
Comments 79 Comments
  1. rcshaggy's Avatar
    So the Horde Garrison Shipyard is in the spot where we first started into Draenor and then the Ally one is in the same spot at their own starting area.
    Well got to say the Garrison Shipyard thing is kinda great, but will a Shipyard Garrison ever be a thing?
    Like sending tiny ships, and other stuff etc?
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Hey Blizz. I know you guys are incapable of coming up with your own ideas. You like to steal things from other games. But if you could stop stealing cool features from other games and making them shitty, well that'd be great. Let us scale up and down like other games do, where we can level with our friends. More than one weekend a month would be nice too.
  1. Raldazzar's Avatar
    shipyards feel like garrison missions.. part 2.
  1. Fenzha's Avatar
    Unless the rewards from the timewalker dungeons are like 670+ they are just going to suffer the same fate as dungeons do now. Nobody will run them on mains and the current trend of all content for alts and nothing for mains will carry on.
  1. RangerOfDiscord's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    I mean, I'm just sort of blown away by that response to Timewalking. He all but says, "Yeah, it's rehashed content," and goes off on a ridiculous rant where he skirts around just saying that outright because, "That's a negative mindset."


    Here, Zarhym. I'll give you a REAL TL;DR:

    "Yes, it's rehashed content. We want to know if you think that's fun."

    And here's our tl;dr response:

    "Not really. We farmed those places for years (sometimes multiple years, for mounts). We want new dungeons and content."



    Who the heck is running things at Blizzard right now? This expansion's leadership (or lack thereof) is just...sorely out of character for what I'd become accustomed to with Blizzard, which was way better than this, historically. WoD is a farce, even if it has aspects I like.
    Okay, but like, the whole Timewalking dungeon thing is something that a LOT of people have actually wanted for several years. It's not some new random idea Blizzard used as an excuse to be lazy. It's them finally giving players something they've wanted and asked for for a long time. A lot of people want to run through those old dungeons but not just be able to one-shot the adds and bosses, but to actually have to use strategy and go through them. Plus it helps for newer players who want to experience those but leveled up too fast to go through them.

    Plus, did you ignore the part where we're getting a new raid and tons of new content in Tanaan Jungle? Plus there's probably at least 1-2 more patches coming.

    tl;dr stop looking for things to complain about
  1. cptaylor38's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    I mean, I'm just sort of blown away by that response to Timewalking. He all but says, "Yeah, it's rehashed content," and goes off on a ridiculous rant where he skirts around just saying that outright because, "That's a negative mindset."


    Here, Zarhym. I'll give you a REAL TL;DR:

    "Yes, it's rehashed content. We want to know if you think that's fun."

    And here's our tl;dr response:

    "Not really. We farmed those places for years (sometimes multiple years, for mounts). We want new dungeons and content."



    Who the heck is running things at Blizzard right now? This expansion's leadership (or lack thereof) is just...sorely out of character for what I'd become accustomed to with Blizzard, which was way better than this, historically. WoD is a farce, even if it has aspects I like.


    Such a snide attitude. I can't believe the condescending tone these blues use on a regular basis and continuously get away with it. But they know they can so why not? And not to mention the fact that he uses the argument that he wants people to focus on recent content instead of older dungeons... here's an idea, make the existing content more entertaining/rewarding/add new recent content? And either way, you'd rather sacrifice potential loss subs because you're too stubborn to create new content claiming you want people to focus on the content you've already made, than to just allow Timewalking as a more expansive permanent addition.

    As somebody else mentions below, these will be shortlived experiences if continuously added but it's their own fault. It's just like scenarios... it involved extra work and they didn't know how to keep creating them or make them rewarding or it was just too much effort so they left hem behind in Pandaria.

    It just seems to me there is no direction or passion with these devs anymore. I can't say I blame them after working on the same game for 10 plus years, but surely that must strengthen some of their interest in it? And frankly, the attitude of seemingly everyone of these snarky trolls is appalling.

    "We're not all that concerned about how you want to label content after seeing it laid out on paper. There are people out there who are quick to claim that we're pretending "old content" is once again "new content." It's not about old and new. It's about giving players more options and new ways to experience content in World of Warcraft, even if that means creating new systems to experience existing content in different ways."


    So there are no new mechanics? Oh, okay. So we're not really experiencing the content in a different way, and nothing's changed about it so it's sort of like it's the exact same dungeon all over again... right? I wouldn't complain about them and wanted a feature like this for awhile, but I wanted something that would allow us to scale up or down with friends in dungeons and zones similar to GW2. Not some gimmicky weekend event system that forces people to make sure they're subbed or they'll miss out on this limited time offer!
  1. Spotnick's Avatar
    Many players ask for ages to make old content relevant, rest of the people complain it's rehashed content. Classic.

    The day they will finally do Vanilla servers, will there be an army saying it's rehashed content?
  1. dirtside's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    Many players ask for ages to make old content relevant, rest of the people complain it's rehashed content. Classic.

    The day they will finally do Vanilla servers, will there be an army saying it's rehashed content?
    This is the fallacy known as the "false-consensus effect." Most people tend to think that everyone else has the same experiences and opinions they do. "I didn't ask for old content to be revamped, so why would anyone else find such a thing valuable?"
  1. Banquetto's Avatar
    They should have put The Oculus on that list of timewalking instances, just for the epic troll value.
  1. dirtside's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    I mean, I'm just sort of blown away by that response to Timewalking. He all but says, "Yeah, it's rehashed content," and goes off on a ridiculous rant where he skirts around just saying that outright because, "That's a negative mindset."


    Here, Zarhym. I'll give you a REAL TL;DR:

    "Yes, it's rehashed content. We want to know if you think that's fun."

    And here's our tl;dr response:

    "Not really. We farmed those places for years (sometimes multiple years, for mounts). We want new dungeons and content."



    Who the heck is running things at Blizzard right now? This expansion's leadership (or lack thereof) is just...sorely out of character for what I'd become accustomed to with Blizzard, which was way better than this, historically. WoD is a farce, even if it has aspects I like.
    The same people who've been running things for the last several years.

    It's undeniable that his response is trying to put a positive spin on the idea of reusing old content. (After all, why would he try to put a negative spin on it?) There's no doubt that part of their goal is to maximize return on investment: If they can do a relatively small amount of work and add something that a fair number of people find interesting, that's a good investment.

    However, the fact that you think that Timewalking significantly detracts from other content demonstrates that you haven't the faintest idea how development on a game like WoW works. Blizzard is already adding a ton of new content in 6.2 (an entire new outdoor zone, an entire raid tier, and probably some other stuff they haven't announced yet). The zone and raid take tons of artist time, as well as encounter designers, modelers, programmers, etc. Timewalking, by contrast, pretty much takes some programmer time (not very much, in all likelihood) and some UI designer time. And that's it. If they hadn't done Timewalking at all, that would not in any way mean that we get a new set of dungeons (or even one tenth of one dungeon) instead.

    There's also the fact that you think everyone's experience in WoW matches yours. There's tons of us who were around back in the BC/Wrath days, and did all those dungeons a million times, it's true; Timewalking doesn't particularly appeal to me (I'll probably do it once or twice for the lulz). But guess what? There's also tons of players who started WoW AFTER those expansions. Those players may have done a couple of those dungeons on their rapid pass through Outland and Northrend, or possibly not at all. To give hundreds of thousands of players a way to meaningfully engage with existing content, for a relatively small amount of work? As someone who's done his fair share of game design (and programming), I guarantee you that's a big win from Blizzard's perspective.

    There are many ways to play and enjoy WoW, and not all of them have to appeal to you personally.
  1. Blur4stuff's Avatar
    rehashing old content
    blizzard is giving us something that players have been asking for. here on mmoc and elsewhere for years we've seen people wanting to revisit old content in an updated setting.

    it's amazing how often blizzard can do something that players asked for only to see another group of players whine about it
  1. Noblia's Avatar
    Holy FUCK! these cunts are fucking around with Ashran again?!

    Blizzards internal motto is... We design mistakes and our customers pay for them.
  1. thottstation's Avatar
    When did Blizzard change their position from "We don't want to scale up Wintergrasp because that feels like going backwards, and we want to focus on going forwards." to "Don't focus on asking if the content we're working on is old or new; tell us if it's FUN."
  1. prwraith's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    I mean, I'm just sort of blown away by that response to Timewalking. He all but says, "Yeah, it's rehashed content," and goes off on a ridiculous rant where he skirts around just saying that outright because, "That's a negative mindset."


    Here, Zarhym. I'll give you a REAL TL;DR:

    "Yes, it's rehashed content. We want to know if you think that's fun."

    And here's our tl;dr response:

    "Not really. We farmed those places for years (sometimes multiple years, for mounts). We want new dungeons and content."



    Who the heck is running things at Blizzard right now? This expansion's leadership (or lack thereof) is just...sorely out of character for what I'd become accustomed to with Blizzard, which was way better than this, historically. WoD is a farce, even if it has aspects I like.
    Pretty much.

    Blizzard should be ashamed. Not only is the timewalker thing half assed, it most certainly will take almost zero development time. It will be touted as this amazing thing that gives the players MORE options. But ultimately is little more than another "queue for random heroic dungeon" button.

    The fact that they respond to their customers in such a fashion after being called out on how lazy they're being and have been illustrates just how pathetically far they've fallen.
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    blizzard is giving us something that players have been asking for. here on mmoc and elsewhere for years we've seen people wanting to revisit old content in an updated setting.

    it's amazing how often blizzard can do something that players asked for only to see another group of players whine about it
    Yeah is certainly amazing what some people think now days, and well not surprised on these forums of some of the post by people.. Each day I read pretty much page after page of people whining about something, and each day is gets easier to get away from this site, since to me at least about 95% of posts on here are just negative, whining, non constructive posts..
  1. Gadzooks's Avatar
    Seems to me, that as time goes on, the feedback loop between Blizzard and the players is just degrading worse and worse - the knee jerk comment was spot on, and the blue falling back on the "court of public opinion" excuse is pathetic. The problem isn't so much what they're saying, even though 75% it's worthless, it's how they say it, and it's what they don't say. They're spending more time now defending how they respond, than actually responding to an issue, when they're not commenting in silly threads and ignoring 25 page threads over serious issues. Their CM program is a mess, and the players don't trust the devs anymore. It's not healthy.

    Take the Pve and Pvp talents comments. Holinka arrogantly blew it off, and just said "We're not into that solution." So the Blue has to expound on that, and say - "we don't agree with that fix, but we have something else in mind, we fundamentally agree with you that it's a problem." They need to keep microphones away from Holinka, he's incapable of communicating properly. Half the outrage would never appear if he bothered to flesh out answers like that. "We hear you, and agree - but we want to try something else" is far better a response than 'We dislike that solution". Is that so fucking hard, Holinka? Is it so hard to maybe appease your customers, instead of just saying no constantly, and maybe admitting the players have better ideas than you do?

    Edited to add: And, I see it's LORE saying that - dude, you were IN THE FUCKING Q&A! Why on earth did't you say all that THEN? Are you so afraid/in awe of that dick, that you sat there and let him blow off that issue like he did, and then you go to the forums with a reasonable response, to do clean up after his pointless Q&A answers? What the fuckity fuck? If you have a better grasp of the issue and the vision of the staff on how to fix it, why are you asking that fucking dullard, and not doing the Q&A yourself?

    They need another Ghostcrawler. Period. The CMs are too deep into the troll war aspects of the forums, taking things way too personally, and are sounding a bit Tsericcy for my taste - their boss needs to reign them in. They're getting too combative over even simple questions. The devs are too neckbeardy to communicate well. A trustworthy CM or Dev with good social skills and some charm and personality would go a long way right now. Someone more like Muffinus, less like Bashiok.

    PS - I also think it's obvious they're collecting comments for Holinka. He's incapable of communicating with the audience, so they're asking for him, why does Ashran suck, and why didn't Wintergrasp. It's good they're doing it, it's pathetic they need to, but I don't think Holinka will learn anything from it. It's gratifying that others are seeing what I did, early on, that he's just a dick, but it's sad that pvp is in his ham hands moving forward, so it's one less thing that might bring me back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Yeah is certainly amazing what some people think now days, and well not surprised on these forums of some of the post by people.. Each day I read pretty much page after page of people whining about something, and each day is gets easier to get away from this site, since to me at least about 95% of posts on here are just negative, whining, non constructive posts..
    If that's true (and you're not exaggerating, god knows that NEVER happens here), why are you here? Why would you frequent a site you find that distasteful?
  1. Eon Drache's Avatar
    I think another overlooked thing was the auto put into raids in ashran. One of the things a lot of people bitched about not having. Now that it will be a thing, no one cares.
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadzooks View Post
    If that's true (and you're not exaggerating, god knows that NEVER happens here), why are you here? Why would you frequent a site you find that distasteful?
    I often wondered myself I must be a glutton for punishment or something, the forums here used to be good but since for whatever reason Blizz are doing what they are doing well you know the rest, anyways I am outta here..
  1. Kazuchika's Avatar
    So in an expansion with less content than ever before they want to introduce a highly requested feature.. 2 days a week.

    I love that Blizzard is the one that dug this bottomless pit of underwhelming boredom in Warlords yet the paying customers are the assholes when we bring it up.
  1. Zyranthian's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Pretty much.

    Blizzard should be ashamed. Not only is the timewalker thing half assed, it most certainly will take almost zero development time. It will be touted as this amazing thing that gives the players MORE options. But ultimately is little more than another "queue for random heroic dungeon" button.

    The fact that they respond to their customers in such a fashion after being called out on how lazy they're being and have been illustrates just how pathetically far they've fallen.
    Why should they be ashamed? It's a very cool feature people have been asking for for years, if I was them I'd be pretty excited and proud of it! If their customers want serious replies then they should stop acting like spoilt entitled brats when they ask questions. Personally I love the way the CMs answer people, if you want to be taken seriously then act like it and if you want respect then show respect. If you're going to stomp your feet and throw a tantrum like a brat, expect to be treated in kind. That doesn't mean you're not allowed to criticise them, or bring things you don't like to their attention, but theres a way to do that without resorting to name calling and strawman arguments and hyperbole.

    I can also guarantee you theres a lot more to the Time walking feature than a new queue for heroic button. Sure the changes needed are small on the art side, but theres a lot of engineering work going on behind the scenes to make it work. Works out well though, because then it frees artists and designers up to make the content that is much more art heavy and needs the level designers and game designers (ie Tanaan and hellfire citadel). Its actually a very efficient use of their resources, would you prefer the engineers sit around doing nothing instead of making new features?
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