Pantheon Trinket Drop Hotfix, MDI Time Trials, Voice Acted Quests Shut Down, DLC #624

Originally Posted by Crookids

I think you're missing the point and arguing with yourself.

Reading the text out-loud or creating software/addon that other people can use that dictates how the creator sees or narrates copyright literature are two different things.

What are you talking about when you say "people need to wake up and see things the way they are"? How are they? Blizzard openly allows community driven additions to their game and is very supportive of the community. For whatever legal reason, their legal department thinks this particular community driven project is a liability for them. Truthfully, I think it is people that act like you are in response that need to "wake up". Or perhaps "grow up" would be the more appropriate connotation.

It's redistribution of copyright material, period.

You are still completely missing the point, as if I am arguing about whether they have the "right" or not. The entire problematic regarding this issue is founded in the believe that a recording of a text that has no original performance (no voice actor ever did lines for the text) could possibly be a copyright infringement. If the experience of WoW was fully voiced and the project was recording an alternate version of it then you might have a point.

First, it's optional, it's nowhere available in the game client nor the official site, hence no customer can claim that it's deluding any experience since you specifically would have to install it yourself. Blizzard allows changes to sound files and even re-interpretation of entire sound cues and voice acting all over the place, go ahead and download any addon I would bet 90% are replacing, re-performing or re-designing all kinds of sounds/texts and icons. There is no logical reason why this is going too far. Changing the sound clues and voice lines of in-game bosses are as much of a redistribution of copyright material as any recorded word by word quest text. (Btw, the answer is none, more on this later)

I don't believe you think this is logical reasonable with the facts presented as it's literally less of a change than most addons that we have out there. Reading out quest text is not a copyright infringement, I could read out the quest text myself and nothing would happen. The creators are not performing any acts publicly, are not charging money for it and I bet a court would not disallow this modification simply because the game is already allowing these kinds of modification and this would be a simple case of double standards. My educated guess would be that Blizzard knows a project like this would be 100% successful and don't want to look bad why they don't record voice lines themselves. So instead of admitting they don't think it's worth it to voice old/all quests they just play the "copyright" card although it's obviously a hypocritically double standard thrown at us giving that (sound) mods like these has been legal for over a decade just in a less ambitious vision.

Regarding: "Reading the text out-loud or creating software/addon that other people can use that dictates how the creator sees or narrates copyright literature are two different things."

What a whole lot of rubbish, you are telling me no human can simply read out text without dictating his view on the literature? I have no words for this, if that is what you truly believe then we will never have a common ground because that is fundamentally flawed and wrong because it makes any literature worthless by principle if that is what you believe.

Regarding: "It's redistribution of copyright material, period."

It is not, why? Because that would mean you can listen/read the material WITHOUT the official channel, which is the game/server of WoW. You can't, hence it's not redistributed in any form. Blizzard will still get 100% of revenue whether someone listens to the sound mod or if he doesn't, it would not hold up on court. It is a modification like adding "burp" whenever you click on accept on a quest. It's really as simple as that. What they make it seem like is not what it really is, that's why I am telling you to not just swallow what they feed you.

Elon Musk is right when he proposes laws to be only time limited and then re evaluated over time since governments and corporations alike simply abuse them to do whatever they want. Backwater laws and traditions from 100 years ago surely are fitting, right? (Not saying this in particular is the case)

Whatever you may answer, have a nice day and hopefully you take something with you and question decisions more often. That's all I can do.

Originally Posted by Qnubi

You are still completely missing the point, as if I am arguing about whether they have the "right" or not. The entire problematic regarding this issue is founded in the believe that a recording of a text that has no original performance (no voice actor ever did lines for the text) could possibly be a copyright infringement. If the experience of WoW was fully voiced and the project was recording an alternate version of it then you might have a point.

First, it's optional, it's nowhere available in the game client nor the official site, hence no customer can claim that it's deluding any experience since you specifically would have to install it yourself. Blizzard allows changes to sound files and even re-interpretation of entire sound cues and voice acting all over the place, go ahead and download any addon I would bet 90% are replacing, re-performing or re-designing all kinds of sounds/texts and icons. There is no logical reason why this is going too far. Changing the sound clues and voice lines of in-game bosses are as much of a redistribution of copyright material as any recorded word by word quest text. (Btw, the answer is none, more on this later)

I don't believe you think this is logical reasonable with the facts presented as it's literally less of a change than most addons that we have out there. Reading out quest text is not a copyright infringement, I could read out the quest text myself and nothing would happen. The creators are not performing any acts publicly, are not charging money for it and I bet a court would not disallow this modification simply because the game is already allowing these kinds of modification and this would be a simple case of double standards. My educated guess would be that Blizzard knows a project like this would be 100% successful and don't want to look bad why they don't record voice lines themselves. So instead of admitting they don't think it's worth it to voice old/all quests they just play the "copyright" card although it's obviously a hypocritically double standard thrown at us giving that (sound) mods like these has been legal for over a decade just in a less ambitious vision.

Regarding: "Reading the text out-loud or creating software/addon that other people can use that dictates how the creator sees or narrates copyright literature are two different things."

What a whole lot of rubbish, you are telling me no human can simply read out text without dictating his view on the literature? I have no words for this, if that is what you truly believe then we will never have a common ground because that is fundamentally flawed and wrong because it makes any literature worthless by principle if that is what you believe.

Regarding: "It's redistribution of copyright material, period."

It is not, why? Because that would mean you can listen/read the material WITHOUT the official channel, which is the game/server of WoW. You can't, hence it's not redistributed in any form. Blizzard will still get 100% of revenue whether someone listens to the sound mod or if he doesn't, it would not hold up on court. It is a modification like adding "burp" whenever you click on accept on a quest. It's really as simple as that. What they make it seem like is not what it really is, that's why I am telling you to not just swallow what they feed you.

Elon Musk is right when he proposes laws to be only time limited and then re evaluated over time since governments and corporations alike simply abuse them to do whatever they want. Backwater laws and traditions from 100 years ago surely are fitting, right? (Not saying this in particular is the case)

Whatever you may answer, have a nice day and hopefully you take something with you and question decisions more often. That's all I can do.

Your argument begs the question among other fallacious retort. I’m not arguing against the addon. In fact, my first post I mention how I wish it wasn’t being dismantled. I don’t necessarily agree with Blizzard’s decisions either. My point is I don’t have to. My argument is that it’s apparent there are legal ramifications Blizzard is not prepared to face by allowing the addon to proceed. Given their history and support for community driven additions to their game — I think their decision should be taken with at least an iota of respect as opposed to the backlash community members such as yourself perpetuate on the forums.

Speaking of questioning decisions and alternatively, as opposed to using the freedoms Blizzard has given the community as a way to claim they’re being preposterous — perhaps it is better to appreciate their decision while reflecting on the enhanced experience the aforementioned has allowed.

I’m sorry, I just can’t agree with “you were loose with your guidelines in the past and because you’re not doing it now you’re a terrible company!”.

Totally makes sense why they can't allow this, kinda seems like common sense to me. You can't have non-employees make and release art that may or may not be intended the way of the author; or be considered a representation of Blizzard's product design.

No brainer, they did the right thing to shut this down...even though it would pain the staff given the support and effort gone in to it.

Originally Posted by Dhru

Ohh because it would be so hard to add that addon as a Blizzard parented project. Yeah.... Get the f*ck out of here!
Expect if those peeps wanted money because in that case I can understand the Blizzard.

- - - Updated - - -


Around here we call your people: "stupid". Faith in a profit oriented company.... WTF? I feel NA or Western European education.

I can disarm your condescending, ill mannered, flat out rude response with a single counter argument.

Classic Servers

People have longed for a way to play pre-cataclysm, Vanilla, wow for YEARS and there have been so many Private servers for this. People asked, and asked, and asked and made the desire known. Through community demand, though it had taken years, its finally happening and that's just a singular instance. Allow me to gladly list a few more.

How about Dark Iron Shaman which were not in the original class line up for that race but was recently added? How about Zandalari having their height re-adjusted after being called out on being way too small? The fact that in the Q&A Blizzard brought up Zandalari Paladins and how that lore is not being ignored, to keep watching what happens? How about the years people, not everyone though, had asked for subraces such as brown Orcs? Hell, lets go back to Pre-Pandaria when every Blizzcon someone asked for Pandaren only to be mocked with "Blizzard would never do that, its just a joke race" only to have Pandaren finally become playable after years of players asking, again I know not "everyone" asked for it but its hard to deny it was not highly requested.

How about dungeons? Post launch dungeons which went away and Blizzard had made clear their disinterest in doing them because they didn't want to overshadow old dungeon content and raids? People asked and asked for more dungeons and we got it in spades with Legion. People asked for end game dungeon content, the people who wanted alternative to raids, we got the amazing M+ system.

Yes, at the end of the day you are right that they are a profit driven company and that growth and money is important. Though, as cynical and cold as you want to be, the fact is that they are a company of passionate people who love what they do and who love their game(s). As someone who has had the pleasure of meeting members of the Blizzard team, including Mike Morhaime, back in Blizzcon 2008, someone who has been playing Blizzard games since SC:BW, D2:LoD, and WC2:ToD I can attest to their passion and love for their products. Even to this day, Blizzard makes fine products though I know that fact burns half of the forums up with rage and that people will disagree.

At the very least, Legion is a good example that even Blizzard want this. Legion is by far one of the most heavily voice acted expansions we have ever had with TONS of flavor dialog while out and about doing our quests, scenarios, dungeons, ect and it was one of the big pushing points for Legion when showed off. With the fact that it was Legion's improvement to voice acted content that actually drove Bellular to start his addon in the first place, the fact that this newer VO addon was attempted even after the shutdown of Bellular's, AND the fact we actually have a text to speech quest addon already on curse, its obvious the interest is out there. There is no way that Blizzard does not see it, I guarantee that the discussion on VO like this is heard by Blizzard.

I am sorry that you, as well as many others on these forums, have grown so cold and cynical that you have to throw direct and personal insults at people over a game. Fact is, however, that you have no clue what you are talking about and it shows in the quality of your presented argument. Blizzard listens to their community and has proven it time and time again over the years, even though people quickly forget when its convenient and its easy to say that all they care about is money simply because they do something that is not what "you" personally want or feel entitled to. It may not be the expansion after BfA, it may not be in ten expansions after BfA, hell it may never be but the fact is that Blizzard does listen to their fans in more ways than I have time, or text limit, to list all of and even then the words would most likely be wasted. Chances are, with out voices heard, it will some day be a thing. Its not guaranteed, I can't speak for Blizzard nor doe I try to, but given their record its not fully off the table and that much is at the very least fact.

You are welcome to your opinion, which is what makes public forums so wonderful and at times can create some truly amazing discussions, but I disagree with that close minded view given Blizzards record.

Originally Posted by Crookids

Your argument begs the question among other fallacious retort. I’m not arguing against the addon. In fact, my first post I mention how I wish it wasn’t being dismantled. I don’t necessarily agree with Blizzard’s decisions either. My point is I don’t have to. My argument is that it’s apparent there are legal ramifications Blizzard is not prepared to face by allowing the addon to proceed. Given their history and support for community driven additions to their game — I think their decision should be taken with at least an iota of respect as opposed to the backlash community members such as yourself perpetuate on the forums.

Speaking of questioning decisions and alternatively, as opposed to using the freedoms Blizzard has given the community as a way to claim they’re being preposterous — perhaps it is better to appreciate their decision while reflecting on the enhanced experience the aforementioned has allowed.

I’m sorry, I just can’t agree with “you were loose with your guidelines in the past and because you’re not doing it now you’re a terrible company!”.

I knew I wouldn't agree with you anyway. At least you acknowledge that you were wrong regarding the redistribution and reading out loud text since you didn't address my points there.

Never mentioned Blizzard is terrible, just saying that Blizzard is having double standards. Read my posts again and you will spot that a couple of times. The addon in question is merely a convenience since it saves you the time to read the text yourself, I could ask my friend or brother to read it out loud for me which is the same. Or like someone else mentioned in this thread, use a text to speech tool which is as neutral as it gets, a robotic emotionless voice. Blizzard would not tell anyone to not do that because it is obviously not a copyright infringement at all. (show me where it says you are not allowed to read out quest text of the game)

But I suppose you will continue rambling about legal rights and not see the double standard Blizzard is pursuing in this case.

Again, have a good day, sir.

Awesome!