Fix for Repeat Instance Bug Exploit
Recently, Blizzard made a hotfix and blue post about a layering exploit in WoW Classic dungeons and raids.
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We’ve recently become aware of a bug that could be exploited to allow instanced encounters to be completed repeatedly. We have developed a fix for the issue, and we are in the process of deploying it worldwide.

Realm restarts are scheduled for 3:00 a.m. PDT (6:00 a.m. EDT) in order to apply this fix.

As soon as possible, we will identify those who knowingly abused this bug in exploitative manner. We will then take appropriate punitive measures.

As a reminder, Blizzard’s End User License Agreement defines cheats as “methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard, influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods.”

As always, thank you for your feedback on this matter.

Blizzard Clarification on Punishments Coming for Layering Exploit
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Soooooo since I’m seeing a lot of confusion (here and elsewhere), here’s some insight into how we draw the line between what makes something a punishable exploit versus a “happy little accident.”

The key factor here is intent. Did the player do something with the specific intention of causing a glitch to occur, and did they do it order to exploit said glitch for their own benefit?

This recent glitch makes a pretty clean example. The players who were abusing it had to do some Very Weird Stuff to cause it to occur, and then did so repeatedly. No reasonable person would expect that this behavior was intended, and the players involved had to go out of their way to cause it. It’s obviously unintended, it’s obviously a glitch, and the people who abused it were obviously exploiting said glitch for their own benefit. That’s pretty open and shut.

Someone mentioned Esfand’s random MC reset in this thread, which is a pretty clean example of the other end of the spectrum. In that case, they just turned up to raid and the instance had been reset. They didn’t do anything intentional to cause it or go looking for reproduction steps so they could abuse it - in fact, they reported it to us and didn’t continue until they got confirmation that it was out of their control (and that we wouldn’t consider it an exploit if they cleared).

Side note for the curious: that was a completely separate bug that has existed since 2004, and actually happened several times back then, it just wasn’t being broadcast to thousands of viewers at the time.

Obviously, neither situation is ideal - we try our best to provide a fair playing field for everyone - but there’s a pretty massive difference between “the instance is reset and we don’t know why” and “if we do this One Weird Trick we can infinitely farm this dungeon boss.” That’s the key factor that turns something from an accident into an exploit.

This ended up being longer than I expected so I’ll wrap it up with one last caveat: there is a lot of context and nuance that goes into these situations, and they’re not usually as cut and dry as these two examples. We end up making a lot of judgement calls based on the specifics of each exploit as well as their overall impact on the game (the phrase “clever use of game mechanics” originally came from one such convoluted situation). These two cases just happen to be pretty obvious.
This article was originally published in forum thread: WoW Classic Layering Dungeon Exploit and Punishment Clarification started by Stoy View original post
Comments 56 Comments
  1. Gratlim's Avatar
    Well streamers getting a free pass was expected. They are Classic, Actiblizz and shareholders best friends anyway (best sort of marketing for a video game in 2019).

    Esfand did get a nice PR stunt as well and get more famous by that move (asking GM while exploiting) and avoid backlash. Note that I have nothing against him. I saw a couple of his videos and he seems like a genuine nice guy.
  1. lichbane's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    ...and the internet's never-sated justice boner throbs again.

    I swear to fucking God, some people in this community wouldn't be happy if Blizzard publicly executed, by way of guillotine, anybody who ever exploited. It's fucking weird, and I never understood people's fascination with punishments for these kinds of things.
    That's an awful lot of salt you've got there. Did you get hit with a ban for exploiting or did you exploit and are worried about what the punishment will be?
  1. Relapses's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lichbane View Post
    That's an awful lot of salt you've got there. Did you get hit with a ban for exploiting or did you exploit and are worried about what the punishment will be?
    No, I just hate cancel/outrage culture and the internet's hivemind tendency to admonish and exaggerate the negative effects of exploits. Blizzard provided a perfectly reasonable explanation of their stance yet you still see people in this thread smugly proclaiming anything less than a permaban isn't justice served. Why? Why care so fucking much about other people's punishment? It's perverse. I do not think other people should revel in the punishment of others.
  1. Redroniksre's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Railander View Post
    you do realize layering isn't even supposed to work in instances, right?
    Don't you dare disturb the narrative. I demands heads i say, HEADS!
  1. Mendzia's Avatar
    Good response from Blizz side imho.
    There is already a post on reddit with email screenshot about 1 month ban. Hopefully it is not fake one.
    Would love to see these greedy ass people being banned and crying on their shady discords.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMZohar1 View Post
    Everyone but streamers will get punished
    As always in these type of threads people focus on streamers being banned instead true exploiters that ruined some servers enconomy...
    Blue poster provided info about Esfand so he is clean.
    What about Asmon? Anyone can provide any vid of him doing it?
    Oh, wait... there is none since it is easier to blame streamers for everything without any proof.
  1. Clozer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gratlim View Post
    Well streamers getting a free pass was expected. They are Classic, Actiblizz and shareholders best friends anyway (best sort of marketing for a video game in 2019).

    Esfand did get a nice PR stunt as well and get more famous by that move (asking GM while exploiting) and avoid backlash. Note that I have nothing against him. I saw a couple of his videos and he seems like a genuine nice guy.
    Instance resets randomly = exploiting bugs???

    Have you even read the blue post?
  1. Polybius's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    No, I just hate cancel/outrage culture and the internet's hivemind tendency to admonish and exaggerate the negative effects of exploits. Blizzard provided a perfectly reasonable explanation of their stance yet you still see people in this thread smugly proclaiming anything less than a permaban isn't justice served. Why? Why care so fucking much about other people's punishment? It's perverse. I do not think other people should revel in the punishment of others.
    Your guillotine example is nice. People lied just to sate their bloodlust during the Reign of Terror. Ironically, the man who created the contraption was executed with it. What goes around comes around.
  1. Akka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbolt View Post
    I just still think a month timeout and items removed is extremely soft.
    You have a weird definition of "soft" here. The guy lose all the things he exploited to gain, and then is froze from the game one entier month ? I mean, that's more than the time Classic has been release. Seems pretty good as far as punishment go.
  1. Nizah's Avatar
    So Esfand report it and clear it anyway ? a two times clear ina week and the devs said its ok they can clear ? wtf
  1. crusadernero's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    So Esfand report it and clear it anyway ? a two times clear ina week and the devs said its ok they can clear ? wtf
    hah yeah its weird. When Blizzard knew this is not intended, shouldnt they just have recommended esfand and his raid not to reclear MC?

    its a seperate bug, so that might have something to do with it. I still find it weird. It probably got something to do with esfands status in the wow community. Well liked guy allround with a big network, among fans and people inside Blizzard. So that probably has alot to do with it.
  1. Carolus Rex's Avatar
    And how do you know if someone intended to do something? Can you read minds?
  1. Sinte's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolus Rex View Post
    And how do you know if someone intended to do something? Can you read minds?
    When you have to jump 10 specific hoops that you would never do randomly, one involving layer hopping in a dungeon, they're not doing it on accident.
  1. Alaenore's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolus Rex View Post
    And how do you know if someone intended to do something? Can you read minds?
    "Sorry Blizzard, i know I cleared Rivendare 23 rimes but i thought it was fine, we just had to invite my friend repeatedly because he had to shiw all his friend he was in stratholme ! Yeah we didn't think about reporting it, too."
  1. Frolk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by dipzz View Post
    Wasn't wrong, esfand and asmongold did it on stream and got a pass, others got 30days
    Got clips of Asmon doing it?
  1. Carolus Rex's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaenore View Post
    "Sorry Blizzard, i know I cleared Rivendare 23 rimes but i thought it was fine, we just had to invite my friend repeatedly because he had to shiw all his friend he was in stratholme ! Yeah we didn't think about reporting it, too."
    I'm not saying there can't be cases where you know someone intended to do certain things. But you can't be sure all the time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinte View Post
    When you have to jump 10 specific hoops that you would never do randomly, one involving layer hopping in a dungeon, they're not doing it on accident.
    Changing layers happens all the time.
  1. Muajin76's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by dipzz View Post
    Wasn't wrong, esfand and asmongold did it on stream and got a pass, others got 30days
    Didn't ninjakitten get a temp ban when she did it?
  1. Cavox's Avatar
    While you're "fixing" stuff how about you nerf spellcleave meta, Acti-Blizz? This is getting out of hands. Instances with 2+ mages don't need a tank or healer at all. It's super effective and absolutely ruins party play. Try to do a quest with 2-3 mages aoe grinding a quest spot. Good luck with that.
  1. klaps_05's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavox View Post
    While you're "fixing" stuff how about you nerf spellcleave meta, Acti-Blizz? This is getting out of hands. Instances with 2+ mages don't need a tank or healer at all. It's super effective and absolutely ruins party play. Try to do a quest with 2-3 mages aoe grinding a quest spot. Good luck with that.
    Welcome to Classic 2019 - nobody wants to waste their time when they can be a lot more efficient and spend more time enjoying the game than killing 40 mobs for 10 quest items 1 at a time.
  1. Nixiuz's Avatar
    This is hilarious! Remember when this didn't happen in Vanilla? Because layering wasn't in vanilla, that's why! I'm beginning to wonder if Activision Blizzard put layering in Classic DELIBERATELY TO PUNISH PLAYERS and not to handle realm population because THEY KNEW exploits would happen and it would give them the chance to punish players by tempting players to exploit layering. Well played, Blizz, well played.
  1. erifwodahs's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbolt View Post
    A picture posted on reddit shows someone got 1 month and the items removed. Talk about a soft penalty for exploiting.

    Now truth be told the story said nothing about how often he did so it could be once, twice or a billion times. I just still think a month timeout and items removed is extremely soft.
    how is that soft? they are loosing a month of their char progression and loosing all gains they had. As long as they are not keeping anything, it is a pretty good punishment. If they had released items into the market, tried hiding items, mats acquired in other accounts, that should then be perma ban. Bus as long as you can roll back any gains and give them a time out of 4 resets, it's not a bad punishment.

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