Ion Response - Mythic N'Zoth Rumor, Patch 8.3 HandyNotes Addon, Fan Art, DLC 714

Originally Posted by Gorsameth

Nothing to do with money, as Blizzard themselves said it was an issue of creativity, trying to come up with 12 sets every tier for now going on 25 tiers is a LOT. Its natural that you run out of idea's and struggle more and more to come up with that new and interesting sets.

Making 4 sets instead of 12 based on the identity of the raid rather then the class simply leaves more room creativity.
Tho I will say there have been some unimpressive ones. They can do better.

It's 100% about money. I mean, this post literally highlights a single artist making unique class sets for each race in less than 1 year...

Originally Posted by qwerty123456

I didn't have a problem with the Thrall or the dragon soul. People were bitching because they thought he kill stole. Blizzard then made the player the focus and people still cry. And if you think the problem is that it reminds you of dragon ball then I guess you were one of the little kids crying about having "Kung Fu Panda" in the game.

For fucks sake they have been setting up re-origination for years as the titans last resort plan for dealing with the old gods without harming the world soul. What the fuck did you think would happen when we spent all this time and energy with the heart of Azeroth? That we would just stab him to death??? Would that have been any better?

Check my post history and you can clearly see I complain about a bunch of shit from Blizzard. Just because I'm sick and tired of old god fanatics crying anytime something old god doesn't go their way doesn't mean I'm white knighting Blizzard. Hell every fucking day there's an old god fanboy claiming the old gods aren't truly dead.

Thanks for clarifying that all of this dismissal comes from a place of just disliking the Old Gods and people who like them, not really anything fair or measured.

Originally Posted by Yarathir

Thanks for clarifying that all of this dismissal comes from a place of just disliking the Old Gods and people who like them, not really anything fair or measured.

Thats not what I said. But good job trying to ignore everything because you see the cinematic as DBZ.

Originally Posted by qwerty123456

Thats not what I said. But good job trying to ignore everything because you see the cinematic as DBZ.

Your blind disdain for Old Gods and Old God fans oozes from your every post here, though. You're not exactly subtle about it, so I'm not exactly going to bother reasoning with you either.

Originally Posted by Yarathir

Your blind disdain for Old Gods and Old God fans oozes from your every post here, though. You're not exactly subtle about it, so I'm not exactly going to bother reasoning with you either.

I like the old gods. i dont like the fanatics who keep claiming they are alive when blizzard repeatedly says they are dead. But yeah keep insulting me instead of actually pointing out whats wrong with what I said. Thats a good way to win an argument on the internet.

Originally Posted by qwerty123456

I like the old gods. i dont like the fanatics who keep claiming they are alive when blizzard repeatedly says they are dead. But yeah keep insulting me instead of actually pointing out whats wrong with what I said. Thats a good way to win an argument on the internet.

Well, in every post, you're making some dismissive remark about Old God fanboys, so it's clear it comes from an area of spite. That, plus your reasons for said disdain are comical considering they are flagrantly untrue, anyway. They said that Old Gods aren't just typical beings and that like many things, they can return and aren't anchored down by their presumed death. But since they also have no plans to bring them back into the story anytime soon, they should be looked upon as being dead in a practical sense-- out of the scope of the story at hand unless Blizzard ever plans to use them again.

I am not pointing out what's wrong with what you said because there's no real substance to your posts, at least not with regards to justifying the treatment of N'Zoth. You just handwave it, and you expect me to engage with that as if it's not ridiculous?

As an addendum, it's funny you're so upset about me mentioning the Azerite/Dragon Soul kamehameha in a negative light and insist that it means I must dislike anime and hated MoP. I actually liked MoP until 5.3 and I enjoy Dragon Ball. That doesn't mean I want WoW to be Dragon Ball.

Originally Posted by Yarathir

Well, in every post, you're making some dismissive remark about Old God fanboys, so it's clear it comes from an area of spite. That, plus your reasons for said disdain are comical considering they are flagrantly untrue, anyway. They said that Old Gods aren't just typical beings and that like many things, they can return and aren't anchored down by their presumed death. But since they also have no plans to bring them back into the story anytime soon, they should be looked upon as being dead in a practical sense-- out of the scope of the story at hand unless Blizzard ever plans to use them again.

I am not pointing out what's wrong with what you said because there's no real substance to your posts, at least not with regards to justifying the treatment of N'Zoth. You just handwave it, and you expect me to engage with that as if it's not ridiculous?

As an addendum, it's funny you're so upset about me mentioning the Azerite/Dragon Soul kamehameha in a negative light and insist that it means I must dislike anime and hated MoP. I actually liked MoP until 5.3 and I enjoy Dragon Ball. That doesn't mean I want WoW to be Dragon Ball.

Not all energy beams are dragon ball. And just because you refused to play the game and read the lore and notice it was heading towards using reorgination against N'Zoth doesn't mean it was bad. Was it short? yes. Does that make it bad? No. And yes Blizzard has stated multiple times that the old gods are dead. Just because someone is a Cthulhu lover doesn't mean they are correct when they spout nonsense about the Old Gods. They aren't Lovecraft Old Gods they are World of Warcraft interdimensional space parasites. Also N'Zoth is the weakest of the old gods on Azeroth. Why are you crying that he deserves even more than C'thun or the others? Literally every piece of lore points to N'Zoth not being anything special and yet you are crying that it deserves better than Sargeras. We dealt with 2 Titans (and a planet) in a single patch which are thousands of times more powerful than an Old God. Why do you think N'Zoth deserves special treatment?

Here's a link to the actual official lore of old gods. Maybe you should read up on it instead of fanfiction:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Old_God

Originally Posted by qwerty123456

Not all energy beams are dragon ball. And just because you refused to play the game and read the lore and notice it was heading towards using reorgination against N'Zoth doesn't mean it was bad. Was it short? yes. Does that make it bad? No. And yes Blizzard has stated multiple times that the old gods are dead. Just because someone is a Cthulhu lover doesn't mean they are correct when they spout nonsense about the Old Gods. They aren't Lovecraft Old Gods they are World of Warcraft interdimensional space parasites. Also N'Zoth is the weakest of the old gods on Azeroth. Why are you crying that he deserves even more than C'thun or the others? Literally every piece of lore points to N'Zoth not being anything special and yet you are crying that it deserves better than Sargeras. We dealt with 2 Titans (and a planet) in a single patch which are thousands of times more powerful than an Old God. Why do you think N'Zoth deserves special treatment?

Here's a link to the actual official lore of old gods. Maybe you should read up on it instead of fanfiction:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Old_God

Energy beams to finish off a raid boss are silly. Keep trying to dismiss that. It was silly and anticlimactic with Deathwing and it is with N'Zoth. Energy beams exist, yes, but them being used to deal with major problems is an anime trope, and WoW isn't an anime.

And wow, the fact that you tell me to read up on Old God lore, while simultaneously being entirely ignorant on Blizzard's own words. Hilarious.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=296046/...user-and-r-wow

Confirms that we've killed their forms, in the cases of Yogg'Saron and C'thun despite echoes of them still seeming to permeate the world.

"If you think about our cosmology and the way that creatures of magic work as opposed to mortals, mortals die they go to the Shadowlands. If you fought the Legion, you fought demons. If you kill them on Azeroth, where do they go? Back to the Twisting Nether, which is the place where they come from."

"So if you think about other magical creatures and think what happens when you kill them on Azeroth, where do they go? There's the potential for things like that to kind of happen. We try to have this cosmology of the way things work, and that's something that you can apply to other things. And I think the old gods are an interesting case where, you know, we've defeated one version of them and who knows if another manifestation will eventually take place."

I would say we should consider them dead. However as with all things in World of Warcraft and the Warcraft's universe dead isn't always dead. If there was a coming of forth of the Old Gods or herald of the Old Gods come down from the great dark-- I can see that easily happening. Not saying that happening, I'm just saying death isn't the end of the line in World of Warcraft, and it really never has been. I think that's kind of been from your character to the world around you. There is a cycle.

And of course, somebody who's telling other people to get their lore in order doesn't recognize that N'Zoth is an unleashed Old God, the first we fought, whereas C'Thun and Yogg-Saron were severely weakened.

Originally Posted by qwerty123456

We dealt with 2 Titans

Correction: with the power of the Titans, we managed to deal with a nascent, broken Titan and then the Pantheon dealt with Sargeras, after which we had an entire expansion of trouble dealing with the sword that Sargeras left behind. Wow, we sure "dealt" with Sargeras.

Looks like somebody should read up on their lore rather than their anti-fanboyism.

Originally Posted by Yarathir

Good list, but I'd say a factor in BfA is that heritage armor and to a point Warfront armor doesn't need to be adjusted for all races.

That's true, but I'm honestly not sure how much those adjustments actually factor into development time. It's mainly just the helms that need adjusting, and at this point it's probably a borderline automated process, given how often they do it. Most of the sculpted armor pieces are really just scaled for size and snapped onto the model.

I do agree that BFA raid sets were pretty lackluster, though. Uldir was mostly lacking in flair and Nazjatar was generally weak. I do think that the BoD and Ny'alotha gear is generally really solid, though, and most of the Warfront gear (especially the Forsaken sets) was also good. And the only big miss for heritage armor for me was the worgen.

Originally Posted by Kathranis

That's true, but I'm honestly not sure how much those adjustments actually factor into development time. It's mainly just the helms that need adjusting, and at this point it's probably a borderline automated process, given how often they do it. Most of the sculpted armor pieces are really just scaled for size and snapped onto the model.

I do agree that BFA raid sets were pretty lackluster, though. Uldir was mostly lacking in flair and Nazjatar was generally weak. I do think that the BoD and Ny'alotha gear is generally really solid, though, and most of the Warfront gear (especially the Forsaken sets) was also good. And the only big miss for heritage armor for me was the worgen.

I'm not so sure. Post-Legion raid-level armor sets do have stuff that needs to be adjusted around the body, especially on races with unique leg structure or downright hooves.

Nazjatar was really a case of them needing to pick a theme and hit it out of the park, but in the end, the gear specially made for naga to wear looks better than the raid gear.

Warfront gear was more or less good, with human armor being high up there alongside forsaken armor. My least favorite would have to be night elf armor- not a single set feels complete. Mail has pretty much a flat waist area and pants, plate has a flat chest. Leather is just kind of generic and cloth has barely any 3D pieces. Compared to forsaken mail, where the set looks pretty much like a hero npc would wear it. The color schemes for the night elf warfront armor were also bad. Piss gold and nearly pink purples, whereas they had Kasparian's armor and the Teldrassil Hippogryph to work from for a color scheme.

BoD gear is good, I can't really give it shit, but personally, I wish it wasn't all entirely death-based. Ny'alotha I generally like, but that's because I like the theme.

Misses for heritage armor? Uhh, probably mechagnomes and vulpera for me. Mechagnomes are just a set of npc armor, vulpera don't have gloves and boots, presumably to make up for mechagnomes not having them. I'd like the mechagnome set more, probably, if the helm was properly closed off.

Worgen heritage is meh, goblin is ok to cool, I love the gnome one, dwarf is great, but blood elf leaves something to be desired. Very strong conceptually, but the execution is a bit lacklustre. The lower half should've had more shape, more to it. It just currently looks pretty clunky and top heavy to me.

I hope the night elf heritage armor gives me something to be impressed by, but it'll probably be the bikini armor from the classic trailer that they made ingame for BfA, but just a little spruced up. I mean, I don't hate it, but I'd rather that set be like a rep or random drop set. For heritage armor, I'd like something fitting for a night elf hero, so something more Warden based.

Originally Posted by Yarathir

Energy beams to finish off a raid boss are silly. Keep trying to dismiss that. It was silly and anticlimactic with Deathwing and it is with N'Zoth. Energy beams exist, yes, but them being used to deal with major problems is an anime trope, and WoW isn't an anime.

And wow, the fact that you tell me to read up on Old God lore, while simultaneously being entirely ignorant on Blizzard's own words. Hilarious.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=296046/...user-and-r-wow







And of course, somebody who's telling other people to get their lore in order doesn't recognize that N'Zoth is an unleashed Old God, the first we fought, whereas C'Thun and Yogg-Saron were severely weakened.


Correction: with the power of the Titans, we managed to deal with a nascent, broken Titan and then the Pantheon dealt with Sargeras, after which we had an entire expansion of trouble dealing with the sword that Sargeras left behind. Wow, we sure "dealt" with Sargeras.

Looks like somebody should read up on their lore rather than their anti-fanboyism.

Lazer beams destroying shit are anime memes now? Call the cops to all the Science fiction and fantasy films that have used it before anime was even a thing.

Did you not read how they said that death technically isn't the end for anything even the players?? Surprisingly afterlife/ves and souls exist in a world with magic....

N'Zoth is a recently unleashed old god who was the weakest of them.

And correction with the power of a titan and titan tech we defeated N'Zoth.

Originally Posted by qwerty123456

Lazer beams destroying shit are anime memes now? Call the cops to all the Science fiction and fantasy films that have used it before anime was even a thing.

Did you not read how they said that death technically isn't the end for anything even the players?? Surprisingly afterlife/ves and souls exist in a world with magic....

N'Zoth is a recently unleashed old god who was the weakest of them.

And correction with the power of a titan and titan tech we defeated N'Zoth.

You're just being obtuse.

And yes, and where they very much implied Old Gods aren't dead-dead, but they may as well be considered practically dead for the time being so long as Blizzard doesn't plan to involve them directly.

N'Zoth is an unleashed Old God at full power. He should be more powerful than C'Thun and Yogg-Saron by far. You can't argue against that, because you'd just be plain wrong.

With deus ex machina titan beam, we defeated N'zoth, yes.

Can you add something?

Originally Posted by Yarathir

You're just being obtuse.

And yes, and where they very much implied Old Gods aren't dead-dead, but they may as well be considered practically dead for the time being so long as Blizzard doesn't plan to involve them directly.

N'Zoth is an unleashed Old God at full power. He should be more powerful than C'Thun and Yogg-Saron by far. You can't argue against that, because you'd just be plain wrong.

With deus ex machina titan beam, we defeated N'zoth, yes.

Can you add something?

Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt nzoth the weakest of the old gods on lore?

Originally Posted by Ghostile

Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt nzoth the weakest of the old gods on lore?

Yes, but C'Thun and Yogg-Saron were severely weakened and not unleashed when we dealt with them. (which is why they weren't the size of a continent like they should've been)

N'Zoth is the first full power Old God we've faced, and he was "advertised" as such.

Originally Posted by Ghostile

Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt nzoth the weakest of the old gods on lore?

Yeah. At full power. Yogg and C'thun were still imprisoned. N'zoth is fully unleashed, meaning that any of his 200km-long tentacle could have (and should have) crushed us in a matter of seconds. Something that couldn't ever do Yogg with the titan facility limiting his moves.
In fact, we have no idea what a fully-powered Yogg Saron looks like, power-wise.

That's the same as if we fought Ra-den when he was still chained, fighting against his nose. We would have destroyed him easily, but that wouldn't mean much.

Originally Posted by Yarathir

Yes, but C'Thun and Yogg-Saron were severely weakened and not unleashed when we dealt with them. (which is why they weren't the size of a continent like they should've been)

N'Zoth is the first full power Old God we've faced, and he was "advertised" as such.

And we used a old god baby dagger and the titan's plan for fully dealing with them (that has been the lore for practically forever) to kill him. What more do you want? We didn't have neither one of those things for the others.

Originally Posted by Kayze

It's 100% about money. I mean, this post literally highlights a single artist making unique class sets for each race in less than 1 year...

Granted I'm not saying it's about the money or not, but you are forgetting some key factors. 1 artist made this in less than a year and while true there is more than that behind the scenes. Getting gear to work with various models takes a bit as well as making sure abilities don't break them, etc.

The main truth is we don't know how much time or people are actually devoted to 1 set of armor. All we can do is guess. We just know how quickly someone makes a 2D image, etc. Since the images only show the front with no movement, sides or backs.

Originally Posted by qwerty123456

And we used a old god baby dagger and the titan's plan for fully dealing with them (that has been the lore for practically forever) to kill him. What more do you want? We didn't have neither one of those things for the others.

Something that wasn't an anticlimactic deus ex machina. And plenty of people agree with me.

Originally Posted by Yarathir

Something that wasn't an anticlimactic deus ex machina. And plenty of people agree with me.

What was dues ex machina about us using the neck that we have been puamping power into this whole time while Magni and M.O.T.H.E.R. are powering up Titan research facilities dealing with power transfers and empowerment?
Just because people agree with you doesn’t make you correct. Just look at all the flat Earthers, or antivaxxers.
As to your other arguments, we have no idea what full power N’Zoth is like. They stated he is weaker than the others, but have given no exact power level. Factor in the 2nd to last fight, literally titled Carapace of N’zoth that has 30+ foot long tentacles come out, that we have to break into to get to N’zoth’s core, then you can see he actually has been presented to be a huge Old God. The final fight literally takes place inside N’zoth.
There’s also the factor we don’t win. N’zoth corrupts us. That’s not something Yogg or C’thun can claim. N’zoth is the first of anything Old God that has beaten us, including Ghuun and a powered up Garrosh who absorbed Yshaarj. Going back to the neck, it’s not Deus Ex Machina that Magni was able to channel the essence of Azeroth into the thing that channels and holds her life blood/essence and then unleash it, much like how we channeled our weapons into the sword at the end of Legion as a beam. That was more d.e.m. than the neck as the weapons were only shown to grow in strength while the neck was shown to be able to absorb the Azerite from the world and then be used to repair it as well. You know, one of the first, if not the first, quest while getting the neck where you use it to repair the heart chamber.

Originally Posted by Eapoe

What was dues ex machina about us using the neck that we have been puamping power into this whole time while Magni and M.O.T.H.E.R. are powering up Titan research facilities dealing with power transfers and empowerment?
Just because people agree with you doesn’t make you correct. Just look at all the flat Earthers, or antivaxxers.
As to your other arguments, we have no idea what full power N’Zoth is like. They stated he is weaker than the others, but have given no exact power level. Factor in the 2nd to last fight, literally titled Carapace of N’zoth that has 30+ foot long tentacles come out, that we have to break into to get to N’zoth’s core, then you can see he actually has been presented to be a huge Old God. The final fight literally takes place inside N’zoth.
There’s also the factor we don’t win. N’zoth corrupts us. That’s not something Yogg or C’thun can claim. N’zoth is the first of anything Old God that has beaten us, including Ghuun and a powered up Garrosh who absorbed Yshaarj. Going back to the neck, it’s not Deus Ex Machina that Magni was able to channel the essence of Azeroth into the thing that channels and holds her life blood/essence and then unleash it, much like how we channeled our weapons into the sword at the end of Legion as a beam. That was more d.e.m. than the neck as the weapons were only shown to grow in strength while the neck was shown to be able to absorb the Azerite from the world and then be used to repair it as well. You know, one of the first, if not the first, quest while getting the neck where you use it to repair the heart chamber.

And he dies last moment in an anime beam followed by a 20 second cutscene that "pays homage" to Lord of the Rings, and then the big bad threat that totally wasn't supposed to be fully freed or it would be utter catastrophy is wiped, everything is solved and in the end, N'Zoth only really managed to spook us a bit and throw some purple goo in two old zones. After being overtly build up since Cataclysm.

And his insanity doesn't amount to much other than that since Wrathion has the bright idea to give us a corrupted black dragon scale, historically the scale of a member of a dragonflight most likely to succumb to old god corruption, which is the perfect material to fight corruption because a little of something will help with dealing with a lot of that very something, because Blizzard says so and it's super profound! It's like medicine.

Gee, I can't imagine why anyone would be disappointed. Blizzard obviously did a stellar job.

"b-but ackchually the anime beam is a reorigination beam u would know that if u folloed the story" Yeah, and that doesn't make it any less of a boring way to finish off a big villain. Sargeras was pulled backwards by a beam and brought to the Seat of the Pantheon, not exploded by it.