Ten Reasons PvE players will love GW2

[rhandric]

Lies? No, just marketing. Remember all the SWTOR marketing that was done? Most of it was true, but not in the way a lot of people thought it would be.

The devs say one thing, the information we have and beta says another. Although this is all perspective.

Except there hasn't been any dev doublespeak from ANet. There has been iteration, but the only system that isn't identical to what we've been told (and been able to experience thus far) is dyes not being unlocked at the account level, and the blog on that is 2 years old (lots of time for iteration, just compare the blogs on stats from then vs now)

[Deleted]

Really need to keep progressing beyond the level cap limitations to have a comparable endgame. There really isn't a PVE endgame in GW2. There are things you do at max level.

lol.

Things you do at max level...that is endgame!
Also in GW2 you do progress, just not in absolute power. you still level and get skill points, you still get gear. It just avoids all the bad things of vertical "progression" models.

Its jsut as much endgame as Raids are in WoW, it just focuses on different aspects.

[Fencers]

No, actual reasons/evidence to believe that they are lying to us about the events taking place in Orr.

Who said anything about the devs lying about Orr events? Those are things one is able to do at max level- such as the Deep, Urgoz or Underworld. Events in Orr are pretty irrelevant here. As sellers of a product, it is in Anet's interest to present actives in a context & language easily processed by the mass market.

There is no comparable endgame in the popular sense in any of the Guild Wars games.

The franchise is not bimodal.

[myhoodyourhood]

This game looks VERY fun can't wait!

[Karizee]

Who said anything about the devs lying about Orr events? Those are things one is able to do at max level- such as the Deep, Urgoz or Underworld. Events in Orr are pretty irrelevant here. As sellers of a product, it is in Anet's interest to present actives in a context & language easily processed by the mass market.

There is no comparable endgame in the popular sense in any of the Guild Wars games.

The franchise is not bimodal.

Comparable to what? Maybe you should give us your definition of "End Game".

[Fencers]

Comparable to what? Maybe you should give us your definition of "End Game".

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post17928335

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG#Progression

Do you want comparative examples of popular MMOs of the last ~10 years as well?

[rezoacken]

This look like you guys are arguing over semantics...
Endgame is a vague term that is in itself a contradiction.

Usually when people complains about "no endgame" what they mean is "no tiered raids" (usually which go hands in hands with a gear treadmill). And one must admit GW2 doesn't have that.

However, the game isn't over once you reach 80, there are things to do. If it doesn't interest you that's ok but if you enlarge the difinition of endgame to "things you do at max level", then GW2 has it.

Really I'm pretty sure you guys know what GW2 has and doesn't has but keep arguing if it should be called endgame or not... which is something that entirely depends on the definition. But there are no definitions... Or maybe a popular one which is "raids".

[Deleted]

The unofficial definition of endgame is "sitting in a city with nothing to do, because only a tiny portion of the game is 'relevant' content"

[Deleted]

Since you guys are speaking about end game atm ill just leave this here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8c-s...&feature=g-u-u first 4ish minutes

[Karizee]

But players do level and progress their characters in GW2, there is content they cannot complete unless they attain certain levels of progression, there is a cap, people will continue to collect money and equipment after reaching cap...

Another common practice is to enforce a maximum reachable level for all players, often referred to as a cap. Once reached, the definition of a player’s progression changes. Instead of being awarded primarily with experience for completing quests and dungeons, collecting money and equipment will replace the player’s motivation to continue playing.

I'm not clear on what hairs you are splitting here.

[Deleted]

But players do level and progress their characters in GW2, there is content they cannot complete unless they attain certain levels of progression, there is a cap, people will continue to collect money and equipment after reaching cap...

And collect XP and skill points too. It can be a bit disturbing. "Did I not reach the max level ?"

[terrahero]

The unofficial definition of endgame is "sitting in a city with nothing to do, because only a tiny portion of the game is 'relevant' content"

Ask 20 people what endgame means in an MMO and get answers all over the place. Most people seem to believe endgame is the stuff you do after you hit the level cap. Or the stuff that you cannot do before hitting the level cap.

[Azrok-]

And collect XP and skill points too. It can be a bit disturbing. "Did I not reach the max level ?"

I was amazed when I found out we will still be getting XP after level cap. So we have no reason at all to skip mobs even after level cap.

[Fencers]

there is content they cannot complete unless they attain certain levels of progression,

Such as?

What information states that characters will need to reach X progression point to do Y progression point of content?

Perhaps you mean DE progression points. But that isn't character related. So?

there is a cap, people will continue to collect money and equipment after reaching cap...

Pretty broad. If we allow this argument than we are stretching the common concept of endgame to the point of irrelevance. There were similar low arguments recently w/r/t Competitive PVE and in the past to group role trinity.

In this very thread, iirc.

I'm not clear on what hairs you are splitting here.

Not really sure what you do not understand here.

Endgame when it is often spoken of in popular MMOs implies a [bimodal] progression system above the level cap. This is different than end of game activities. As above, least one describe endgame so broadly the term is no longer useable in any specific manner. So who cares at that point- we are no longer speaking about anything quantifiable.

[Karizee]

Ask 20 people what endgame means in an MMO and get answers all over the place. Most people seem to believe endgame is the stuff you do after you hit the level cap. Or the stuff that you cannot do before hitting the level cap.

Which GW2 definitely has

---------- Post added 2012-08-10 at 01:23 PM ----------

Such as?

What information states that characters will need to reach X progression point to do Y progression point of content?

A level 10, 20 or 50 character will not be able to do the level 80 content in Orr.

Pretty broad. If we allow this argument than we are stretching the common concept of endgame to the point of irrelevance. There were similar low arguments recently w/r/t Competitive PVE and in the past to group role trinity.

That was in response to YOUR link for why you think the developers are spinning/marketing an end game that you believe does not exist.

Not really sure what you do not understand here.

I do not understand why you believe that the developers are spinning/marketing an end game they do not have. We've all seen the video, it's clear to us that there is an end game.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

How did we get back to this subject?

The facts are: There is no end-game in terms of raiding and higher-tiered gear. That's what people perceive as end-game, so when comparing, you can't say "GW2 has end-game just like every other MMO."
However, the idea of "end-game" in terms of vanity or progression outside of raiding (ie. collecting Transmog gear, pets, mounts, achievements, reputation, etc.) is well displayed in GW2 and one of its major appeals (to me). There is also "end-game" in terms of stuff you can do once you hit 80. However, to compare it to a current-gen MMO is not only incorrect, it's an insult to GW2's philosophies and design.

No, it does not have the same type of end-game as we've known it.
Yes, there are many things to do at max level that will definitely keep you occupied for a long time.

Wasn't this discussed in length already? Let people who are comparing it say GW2 has no end-game like other MMOs; that is what sets it apart and makes it appealing in a sense. The idea of re-defining a game to have a 1-80 progression that incorporates tactics you'll still use at 80 in almost every form is much different (and better, IMO) than getting to max level and then re-learning how to play your class

[Wixwix]

The PvE seems boring like fuck, just a zergfest zzz.

Negative opinion is more than welcome. But at least try to have something more substantial to add to the discussion.
--Fencers

[Fencers]

A level 10, 20 or 50 character will not be able to do the level 80 content in Orr.

And a level 5 or 10 wouldn't be able to do most of the max level content in Warcraft, Aion, Rift, Guild Wars 1 and so on. Even if that content was like, a collect 10 radishes daily.

That was in response to YOUR link for why you think the developers are spinning/marketing an end game that you believe does not exist.

Yes, and it is broadly defined compared to many popular MMOs. Which shares the market and audience the developers of Guild Wars 2 are marketing toward.

I do not understand why you believe that the developers are spinning/marketing an end game they do not have.

Because they want to make money.

We've all seen the video, it's clear to us that there is an end game.

There are end of game activities. Yes. There is no comparable endgame to popular MMOs. In the common usage, there is no endgame at all. And there never has been in any of the Guild Wars titles- going on 4 games + xpack now.

[Karizee]

And a level 5 or 10 wouldn't be able to do most of the max level content in Warcraft, Aion, Rift, Guild Wars 1 and so on. Even if that content was like, a collect 10 radishes daily.

Are you saying those other games do not have endgame?

Yes, and it is broadly defined compared to many popular MMOs. Which shares the market and audience the developers of Guild Wars 2 are marketing toward.

So again, what is the issue? You say that is the definition, that GW2 fits that definition....

There are end of game activities. Yes. There is no comparable endgame to popular MMOs. In the common usage, there is no endgame at all. And there never has been in any of the Guild Wars titles- going on 4 games + xpack now.

You are talking in broad generalities again. Please, define end game.

[Deleted]

Are you saying those other games do not have endgame?




So again, what is the issue? You say that is the definition, that GW2 fits that definition....




You are talking in broad generalities again. Please, define end game.

give it up.
Some people have their own defintion of "endgame" that is rather rigid and inflexible and if anyone disagrees they get all pedantic and argue semantics rather than the issue:

GW2 does not have raids
Endgame =/= just raids.
GW" has endgame that focuses on character progression as much as any other MMO, but this progression is not increases in absolute power like in vertical progression games. That in no way diminshes its endgame content.

If people want to define endgame as raids, thats a very restricted view, esp as the majority of MMO players do not raid on a serious level, if at all.