I am quite honestly surprised that they haven't learned and didn't have an official post or blog, which is coming later today apparently, after the embargo was lifted with websites as then a whole lot of the issue would have mostly been avoided.
I am quite honestly surprised that they haven't learned and didn't have an official post or blog, which is coming later today apparently, after the embargo was lifted with websites as then a whole lot of the issue would have mostly been avoided.
I'm not overly worried about Ascended armor types. Sounds like it's more a small notch upwards rather than the big, almost exponential leaps in power that most gear treadmills make.
I just got Guild Wars 2 and enjoying the leveling process immensely.
This doesn't worry me at all, instead it gives me confidence that there will be greater variety at max level and makes me optimistic about the future.
I'll reserve judgment for when I've actually experienced it for a while but on the face of it, I like it.
what i dont get is how can you criticize them for putting another set of armors in when the current set might not be adequate to handle the progressive difficulty of the new dungeon. If the New dungeon had an end to it and a difficulty cap they wouldnt need to add the armor, they could just use this to add more cosmetic sets into the game. But since the dungeon keeps getting harder how are you the player supposed to handle that in your current full exotic set?
You guys are really weird you know. They cant have this dungeon design without the new gear set because then once you get to a certain point youll be utterly smashed. Now for starters we dont even know how much the stats are gonna go up by. You may not even need the gear at higher difficulties and it may only slightly help you where instead of getting hit for 80% of your health you get hit got 75%. I mean we really dont know how difficult the dungeon will get and we dont know if the gear makes a big difference or a negligible difference. You are all going crazy and coming to radical conclusions.
There is a legendary grind in the game, And a dungeon set grind in the game. They are now adding a dungeon that may require better gear at its highest difficulty and whos to say youll even reach the point where you need even 1 piece of acendence gear to make a difference. We dont know.
I fully understand why they are doing that. It's because people do act like they have to or feel compelled to and the company is asked to respond.
So I expect something like this:
-> People complain that game is too easy: Make harder dungeons. -> People complain that dungeons are too hard: Introduce dungeon specific gear -> People complain about gear treadmill: Make gear only become stronger the longer you are running the dungeon and scale it down to a minimum level of accepted increased power outside of that type of dungeon
If it works out then they have found a decent raid substitute without having to introduce raids, a decent way for increasing rewards without introducing a classical gear treadmill
I also think Mr. Kerstein's response was a bit blunt but he is partially correct, only partially because the media posted tidbits before the company came forward with their precise informations. Which is a risky tactic to be honest as it can incite hype and great backlash from disappointment.
WoW: Crowcloak (Druid) & Neesheya (Paladin) @ Sylvanas EU (/ˈkaZHo͞oəl/) | GW2: Siqqa (Asura Engineer) @ Piken Square EU
If builders built houses the way programmers built programs,the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization. - Weinberg's 2nd law
He seeks them here, he seeks them there, he seeks those lupins everywhere!
I dont know about you but i remember a few games that have done this. Lets see, Diablo II, Diablo 3, Diablo 3 again (Monster Power), World of warcraft (come on man what do you think the difference between normal and heroic dungeons or normal and heroic raids are? You up the %'s and add 1 or two mechanics if that.)
Lots of games do this cuz it works. If a game is easy cuz u can kill mobs fast and they dont hit you that hard then all you have to do is make it so you cant kill them fast and they hit harder. They do it cuz it works.
I suppose you can't get along without the visceral side of the gameplay especially if your game is majorly centered around combat. It does not mean that all you will be going to do is cracking skulls though. I've played a couple of RPGs where the objective was not necessarily to beat an endboss but finding a switch or item. But even so combat can be a side objective of a greater mini-game: Remember the battle squares in Icewind Dale II?
WoW: Crowcloak (Druid) & Neesheya (Paladin) @ Sylvanas EU (/ˈkaZHo͞oəl/) | GW2: Siqqa (Asura Engineer) @ Piken Square EU
If builders built houses the way programmers built programs,the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization. - Weinberg's 2nd law
He seeks them here, he seeks them there, he seeks those lupins everywhere!
Oh wow, this sounds really good. Hope it indeed is this way. Outside the dungeon it's your everyday exotic, but inside it's slightly more powerful.
What i think people don't realise is that this is GW2 and doesn't have the same tier upgrade philosophy as WoW. The change from greens to exotic in GW2 isn't anything you notice. From greens to epics in WoW however is a whole new lvl. Matter of fact, even the change from ilvl 463 to 489/496 is huuge. You can never pull 100k+ dps in full heroic blues, but in 489/496 epic that's to be expected if your a hardcore raider. In GW2 there is almost no difference between exotic and greens. Maybe 500+/- HP and some minor damage, precision etc changes.
Execution vs Depth. WoW fights usually don't have too much depth, since the fights have a set of very strict mechanics, that leads to specific tactics needing to be executed. WoW fights becomes more and more about execution, at least compared to Vanilla and GW2. Most fights in Vanilla weren't very complicated, bosses just hit you for an agonizing amount of health, and you needed resistance gear to survive those few mechanics there was.
While hard hitting bosses with tons of health might seem like a lazy way to make boss fights, it does mean you can get away with being a little more chaotic than in your everyday WoW raid. I suppose it's about hitting a balance. But since it's an infinite dungeon, more health and damage seems like the only way to deal with that.
Ive said this many times before in this thread. The increasing difficulty of the dungeon will get to a point where no matter how much skill you have you cant get further. Anet did make dungeons that rely on skill. And they will continue to release those types of dungeons and events. This is a different type of dungeon designed with progressive difficulty in mind for those that want the challege. For those that dont want the challenge they can still do the dungeon. They just have to reset it after it gets too hard for them. Anyone can do this dungeon in any kind of level 80 gear. The same cant be said for a WoW raid. If a group of level 90's in greens cant defeat the first boss in MV they arnt going to beat any others. If that same group had blues and purples and defeats the first boss then they can prolly beat the others.
If a group of fresh 80's in blues and greens can get to the 3rd difficulty in Fractals of the Mists then they can just reset the dungeon and do it again. If a group of 80's in full exotics can get to the 5th difficulty then they can reset the dungeon and do it again. If a group in all greens gets to the 10th difficulty they can reset the dungeon and do it again.
not sure what point im trying to make anymore but i hope i made it. (You dont need gear to do dungeons in GW2. Its only hinted that a gear type might aid you at higher difficulty levels of a single new dungeon, You do not need this gear to beat the dungeon as it just repeats itself and has no end. 9 total paths all are beatable in blue 80 gear. Again you guys are making somthing out of nothing.)
You are comparing two different fights in a heroic raid, rather than the same fight over the normal and heroic raid. You are right, H Chimaeron and H Nefarian are quite different in difficulty and strategy. Why wouldn't they be? They aren't the same thing at all. However, aside from numbers and 1-2 more abilities (pretty sure it was 2), N Chimaeron is not that much different than H Chimaeron.
I won't claim to know what their intent is with this infinite dungeon. It sounds like a lot of fun. Not only do you get a chance to see how far you can go before you need bigger numbers, but you also have the bragging rights of "I made it through 50 runs without any of this Ascended gear!" or whatever. Take a look at WoW and the MoP dungeon scheme. You have normals, heroics, and challenge heroics. Nothing in them changes except for numbers, yet people do them, be it for bragging rights or some cool rewards (transmog gear).
This is a way they can pander to the crowd on quite a few sides. Those who just want the gear rewards will likely do it for whatever of the items they want. Those that want to flex their epeen will do it as far as they can so they can brag about it. Those that want to just go about it casually and just play it every now and then can.
Ok, so, every time you clear a route mobs get New moves? They have this tech in already, but this can't be infinite!! By round 5 everything would have 5 more abilities ontop of what they had, if they wanted this to go on indefinently there would be so many abilities going off at the later lvs weaker PCs would get demolished, so stats is clearly another option which makes things harder and is easily accomplished.
That being said please tell me where it says they will gain no abilities ever... Cause it seems like they want to throw EVERYTHING fancy they have into this dungeon, so wouldn't that include skill unlocks?
This breaks down for two really important reasons:
1. Diablo and World of Warcraft are stat based games. One is supposed to be excited the +100 sword with 80Arp/50+ Str/Agl 90 hit for 1.5k on a target of 1800 armor/4% dodge. Blah blah blah.
Guild Wars 2 is not a linear stat determinant game to the same degree. The combat isn't even predicated on a series of dice rolls as Diablo and World of Warcraft are wholly.
The comparisons of differing gameplay models and reason of play is inappropriate.
Diablo and WoW are doing it 100% right in their respective gameplay models. That is ideally why a player would play those games- for the statistical crunch.
2. W/R/T World of Warcraft encounter design scales in complexity & interaction as well as numbers output. An encounter from it's most simple-- a kobold in Elywen Forest to more complex ones like Yogg-Saron, are both linear and progressive in difficulty.
Diablo only scales output/input after a given threshold. The gameplay being designed around a farm process for small % differences in player damage, defense, etc. The actual difficulty of content will expire but the chase [so to speak] is perpetual. Even long after the process of gear chase yields satisfactory results- completion, essentially.
We can see that model at work in several ARPGs from Diablo 2 onward in the genre. Good, clear examples would be like Titan Quest or Torchlight 1.
Lastly, it's not reasonable to assume because other games have linear progression via output/input increases players are okay with it in the GW2. Maybe Sally Standsinfire hated that aspect in Diablo 2. And it's no more okay in GW2 than it was in D2 for our proverbial Sally.
Granted that would be an irrational impulse of Sally since she is essentially playing the wrong game type for her in D2. Nonetheless. We can't assume Sally, Billy or Joey are automatically okay with the introduction of such a model in GW2 because some other game(s) did/does it too.
The tldr to "other games do it too!" is; so what?