Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[semaphore]

Oh stop being a drama queen. No one here is saying 'let's murder teenagers'.

No, you're just saying "it's great that he murdered two teenagers".

[Demoncrash]

Do you feel it is right they pay for their error with their lives?
Or do you think this is a case of "natural selection/survival of the wisest", meaning they were stupid, so they deserve to die?

Mostly the second part. I am more of an eye for an eye kind of person. If you steal something, returning what was stolen + some jail time is sufficient. Which is why I said I hope that old geezer (whose obviously mentally unstable) gets put away for life.


But yes, you can only ride your luck for so long doing stupid shit. And if you choose to be at the wrong place, don't complain about showing up at the wrong time.

[Deleted]

Are you seriously saying it is okay to shoot a unarmed kid who's lying on the ground, bleeding, having fallen a considerable height? Then shoot the second girl in the same situation multiple times, drag her around, and then slide a gun under her chin to finish her off? That really doesn't make you pause?

Because those shots are the problem. Not the first shot when he first saw the intruder.

lol we suddenly know also that it was "a fall from a considerable height?"
stop trying to make up facts ?

[Horkymon]

You're forgetting the keyword "directly". The test for self defense involves what had actually happened, not what might have happened. All that had happened is that they broke in. They weren't doing anything in particular beyond standing on top of a staircase when he shot them, though that's still arguably acceptable.

But then he went up to their face and shot them while they were helpless. That was not self defense; he had a duty to leave the basement rather than aggressively eliminate two lives.

He had no duty to retreat. If he was in fear of peril of death or serious bodily harm he was still within his rights to use deadly force. The key word here is Fear, not reason. How was he to know they were helpless? You in your mindset right now would possibly deem them helpless, but a scared, adrenaline pumped old man on the edge that just shot two kids? Please.

[Doctor Amadeus]

That is fine and all, and allows for the boy's death and the initial shooting of the girl.... but not the execution.

Again not acting rationally?

They broke into his fucking HOUSE, they are kids he is 64 kind of frail looking, maybe didn't have a phone all alone.

[semaphore]

Maybe they were playing possum. In dubio pro reo.

Doesn't justify murder when they cannot reasonably be considered to be posing a threat.

[Deleted]

And if it requires to completely ignore demographic, geographic, and cultural differences, fuck it! You know what's right, and you'll stand by it, no need to look any closer than required to match up with what you already believe to be the case.

No, I'm just emphasizing that it's a problem in the US.
It's exactly "because of the cultural differences", but then excuse me, then there's a problem with your culture, if you think it's okay to shoot everyone who enters your property.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Keep in mind a couple of things :

1 - When in highschool everyone does stupid stuff , some more then others .
2 - The girl apeared a couple of minutes after he already shot the boy ... 1 posibility is that she was outside waiting for him and she didn't hear the 2 gunshots , she knew he was unarmed so if she heard the gunshots (if she was inside the home) she would have probably guess her cousin was shot and would have run out ; when she saw he wasn't comming out she went inside to look for him , when she got near the staircase he shot her from the basement , she fell down the stairs ..... are you FUCKING telling me she would have laughed in that situation (down on the ground and a man with a gun pointed at her after being shot...) .... most probably she was either choking or coughing .
3 - I am not against shooting robbers that deserve it , but what he did to the girl was an execution ... and NO SANE person would ever do that .
4 - Being popular or not is irrelevant .

I did stupid shit, but I didn't break into peoples houses, I don't care if they meant to TP his front room, This isn't movie, and that isn't what your average person is going to consider when something like this happens.

[larrakeyah]

lol we suddenly know also that it was "a fall from a considerable height?"
stop trying to make up facts ?

Semaphore sure makes a lot of assumptions. Has 0 legal knowledge to boot.

[semaphore]

lol we suddenly know also that it was "a fall from a considerable height?"

The article clearly says they fell down into the basement. That's pretty considerable.

[maxalyss]

What makes difference is the kids being unarmed, and the intent to kill by the 64y old guy. He deserves death penalty.

When you are 64 and home alone a 2 people try to rob you after breaking in please be sure to check that they are unarmed, or maybe even just ask them if they are unarmed before protecting yourself.....................................................................

[Kasierith]

Again not acting rationally?

They broke into his fucking HOUSE, they are kids he is 64 kind of frail looking, maybe didn't have a phone all alone.

Oh no! The poor man with the gu.. with the two guns! I forgot that after his rifle jammed, he went and grabbed his pistol to kill her with.

And in what sad, twisted universe is a girl down with several bullet holes in her a reasonable thread by any standard?

[Wildtree]

Has anyone played the race card? Can I?

If it were 2 black guys no one would care.

There, I said it!

Stupid tho.... Race plays no role whatsoever. Had it been 2 black ppl, the uproar could have been even louder. Again. Race makes no difference.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The article clearly says they fell down into the basement. That's pretty considerable.

According to WHO, HIM, Nobody else was there, suddenly you consider him a murder but lying or telling a story that would be beneath him?

[semaphore]

Semaphore sure makes a lot of assumptions. Has 0 legal knowledge to boot.

Yes I have 0 legal knowledge because I know that pushing a gun below somebody's who is already shot multiple times, and has been defenselessly dragged across the room, in order to finish her off "cleanly" is murder... as opposed to self defense against the terrible attack of blood stains.

[Deleted]

The article clearly says they fell down into the basement. That's pretty considerable.

"When Kifer began walking down the stairs, he shot her and she fell down the stairs" no hint whatsoever to considerable heights, you simply made up a fact.

the same was probably done by the article's biased author i suspect.

[dekal]

I would side with the home owner, but the guy went way overboard.

I would side with the victims, but they did break into the mans house with intent of wrong doing.

No one can judge what happened here untill all the facts have been revealed, did they have weapons ? were they loaded ? were they aiming at him ? did he give them a warning ? when he shot them the first time did they strugle ? how chaotic was the situation, i really do hope justice gets served here to both sides.

[Deleted]

When you are 64 and home alone a 2 people try to rob you after breaking in please be sure to check that they are unarmed, or maybe even just ask them if they are unarmed before protecting yourself.

You made no relevant points there.

[Terridon]

Semaphore sure makes a lot of assumptions. Has 0 legal knowledge to boot.

Since they mention stairs, it's very likely to be more than 3 steps.
I have a 4 step stair down to my garden, and i honestly don't think you dare to fall down from that on your face. Not saying that she did, but a basement stair is probably more than 4 steps.

A lot of the comments against butchering the kids, goes with things the old man is quoted for, that goes against his favour. Most of the others goes with the girl laughing, being a clear "shot to kill"-case.

[semaphore]

He had no duty to retreat. If he was in fear of peril of death or serious bodily harm he was still within his rights to use deadly force. The key word here is Fear, not reason.

No, the test is a Reasonable Person. No Reasonable Person could claim to be in fear of a girl he had just pumped full of bullets and dragged across the room.