How do you beat rogues

[Nanaboostme]

As someone who plays both a rogue and a warrior I call this a L2P issue.

1vs1 duel vs BG duel comes out with very very different results....

[Hand Banana]

Ive never lost to a rogue on my warrior in a 1v1 in MOP. Not in duels, not in bgs, nowhere. Hell I often 2v1 rogue+whatever in bgs without much effort. Not having shockwave is your biggest mistake let me tell you that right away. Nothing else in that tier is even half as good as shockwave.

Typical rogue 1v1 type situation (assuming decent but not amazing rogue):

Cheap Shot Open (eat it) -> Intimidating shout as soon as possible. If he trinkets then your golden because then its reck/avatar/banner -> Shockwave and hes probably almost dead. If he doesnt trinket get some rage with a shout, run out of melee and charge -> MS/HS (giving you a bleed, and a slow and some damage). Then shockwave (most likely trinketed) and follow with disarm and continue on from there. Basically save reck/ava/banner for the second shockwave which he cant trinket. The damage output your doing and control you have as a warrior shits on a rogue, so yea you should win.

Oh and never leave defensive stance, in bgs or ever really.

[monkeydluffy]

1vs1 duel vs BG duel comes out with very very different results....

exactly I do better in BG's and arenas 1v1 is dumb. rogues are meant for 1v1 so are mages and hunters. The gear isnt even that huge for me and the rogue..

[kosechi]

in BG's theyre easy to beat since I can catch them out of stealth but 1v1 I lose 98% of the time as a warrior, I disarm them they disarm me I shieldwall they restealth

get bleeds on them and they can't restealth.

against low level rogues you can dbts to prevent disarms during burst, kite out the evasion, pressure out vanish and trinket. stun, kill win.

[Shaderas]

no, I do fine in BG's. 1v1 is imbalanced. I need better gear

also the gear difference isnt that huge.

Do you know if the Rogue was PvPing as subtlety (would have tried to backstab you, and used Shadowdance) or Combat (Killing spree is the most noticeable thing about this).

Please don't take what I'm about to say as an insult, but he may have been more skilled than you. Tichondrius is a pretty tough server if I remember correctly. I've been outplayed by people who have less gear than me, and I have beaten my head against the desk. It happens.. if this is a problem with the Rogue class in general, my two major pieces of advice would be to duel against a rogue friend a lot to get experience, or level up a rogue and pvp with him if you have time

Oh yeah, as a poster above me stated, make sure you keep a bleed up on him. My main is a rogue, and I hate that, as I have a very limited window to restealth via vanish, and almost no opportunity outside of vanish..

[monkeydluffy]

Do you know if the Rogue was PvPing as subtlety (would have tried to backstab you, and used Shadowdance) or Combat (Killing spree is the most noticeable thing about this).

Please don't take what I'm about to say as an insult, but he may have been more skilled than you. Tichondrius is a pretty tough server if I remember correctly. I've been outplayed by people who have less gear than me, and I have beaten my head against the desk. It happens.. if this is a problem with the Rogue class in general, my two major pieces of advice would be to duel against a rogue friend a lot to get experience, or level up a rogue and pvp with him if you have time

probably, shes 1700. but Right now I might reroll hunter or rogue for now until I get my weapon. and if i still do bad damage im rolling a hpally. Thanks for the advice in this thread I might stick to ranged classes or maybe roll DK. MMOchamp gives good advice

[Rorke]

Do you know if the Rogue was PvPing as subtlety (would have tried to backstab you, and used Shadowdance) or Combat (Killing spree is the most noticeable thing about this).

Please don't take what I'm about to say as an insult, but he may have been more skilled than you. Tichondrius is a pretty tough server if I remember correctly. I've been outplayed by people who have less gear than me, and I have beaten my head against the desk. It happens.. if this is a problem with the Rogue class in general, my two major pieces of advice would be to duel against a rogue friend a lot to get experience, or level up a rogue and pvp with him if you have time

Sshhhhhhhh don't tell anybody about the secret of Killing Spree 30% Insight with human trinket stacked with Baseline Trinket with a Dancing Steel Proc.

[crakerjack]

oh my... yea, like everyone else said, you need to learn how to play.

[Shaderas]

probably, shes 1700. but Right now I might reroll hunter or rogue for now until I get my weapon. and if i still do bad damage im rolling a hpally. Thanks for the advice in this thread I might stick to ranged classes or maybe roll DK. MMOchamp gives good advice

Yeah I wouldn't feel bad about it. If I remember correctly, Tichondrius and Malganis are two of the TOUGHEST servers for PVP. I would reroll another class, HOWEVER, don't stop playing your warrior! Just learning another class will often times compliment your skills in your main class! I leveled up my Hunter, DK and Feral Druid to see how they play, and now I often play better against them because I am very familiar with how their playstyle. I am leveling a frost mage too (first caster, and it's way weird to me), and when I have time I may try leveling a Warlock and Warrior.

[monkeydluffy]

oh my... yea, like everyone else said, you need to learn how to play.

its not learn to play if she does better damage and kills me faster

[Deleted]

in BG's theyre easy to beat since I can catch them out of stealth but 1v1 I lose 98% of the time as a warrior, I disarm them they disarm me I shieldwall they restealth

The gigantic L2P issue I see here is...why are you shield walling when they want to re-stealth? If they're using CDs, they won't stealth because it's a waste of the CD. If they do, that's better than taking damage.

Don't blow your disarm randomly, use it on his dance or vendetta. If he disarms you back, ok? His burst CD is wasted and you know his disarm isn't up any more so you can afford to tunnel him.

"how do I beat rogues?" is generally a noob question. They're easy to kill if you know anything about them.

[monkeydluffy]

The gigantic L2P issue I see here is...why are you shield walling when they want to re-stealth? If they're using CDs, they won't stealth because it's a waste of the CD. If they do, that's better than taking damage.

Don't blow your disarm randomly, use it on his dance or vendetta. If he disarms you back, ok? His burst CD is wasted and you know his disarm isn't up any more so you can afford to tunnel him.



"how do I beat rogues?" is generally a noob question. They're easy to kill if you know anything about them.

you have gear

[asb]

You both actually have pretty limited gear, and that could be a large part of your problem. A rogue relies on getting an advantage in the opener, and the less mitigation you have the more significant that's going to be. The gear is probably why you lose to everything else, too. It's a really big difference. I mean based on resilience alone you take about 30% more damage than my character would.

As for actual play tips, make sure you're mitigating whatever you can. If you intend on sitting the opener, use defensive stance/a shield/commanding. She'll probably save offensive cooldowns for when you're into second wind; make sure you stop them. Use defensives here and/or CC her. Shockwave is highly recommended. Leap/charge out of range if you have to, but you shouldn't just let her PvE you.

Once you've got survival under control, there really isn't much a rogue can do to escape your damage (which should be much stronger than a rogue's in every imaginable situation). Their options are basically CC you, tank it, or run away. Save your trinket for your offensive cooldowns, because the first thing thrown at your recklessness is going to be a blind (unless they use offensives in the opener, in which case trinketing kindney to fear/parry/disarm/etc. might be a decent idea). Tanking it is probably a no-go. I'm sure that even through CR and recuperate your recklessness damage should be destroying a rogue. That brings us to running away. It's effective, but she shouldn't actually make a clean getaway. If you have to wait until you apply a fresh deep wounds to use cooldowns, do so, but you'll probably get a crit from your first gcd or autoswing under reck anyway. Then leap and charge when the bleed breaks stealth 3sec later. Again, shockwave is very helpful here to keep your target still.

There really isn't a lot of strategy to 1v1. Just think a little beforehand and try different approaches to see what works. If it's always onesided and you've tried everything, odds are it's simply a matter of gear or class advantage.

[Speaknoevil]

There really isn't a lot of strategy to 1v1. Just think a little beforehand and try different approaches to see what works. If it's always onesided and you've tried everything, odds are it's simply a matter of gear or class advantage.

Or player ability.

[Itisamuh]

I'm willing to bet you have the same problem as nearly everyone else who gripes about rogues, and you don't base the use of your abilities on reacting to what cooldowns the rogue uses. Even at their strongest near the end of Burning Crusade, and next strongest near the end of Cataclysm (both of which were ironically because of legendaries and raid gear, not class mechanics, but that's for another discussion) I don't think I've ever struggled with rogues. And I play multiple classes too, including warlock which has nearly always been considered hard countered by rogues, so it's not like I'm simply playing a counter class or getting lucky. I've watched my brothers play in Cataclysm, when they both thought rogues were overpowered, and it's like they just shut down when rogues opened on them and spammed abilities as if they were fighting a mob. Keep cool. Learn their cooldowns. Figure out how to best negate them with your own moves. Keep them from restealthing at all costs. Do all of these things, and you won't have any problem with rogues at all.

[Deleted]

you have gear

Fail. GIEF GEER is the cry of the scrub

[Shadee]

As others have said, clearly a L2P issue

[Blackeyecycle]

in BG's theyre easy to beat since I can catch them out of stealth but 1v1 I lose 98% of the time as a warrior, I disarm them they disarm me I shieldwall they restealth

can't tell if troll.. so must be

[Firatha]

can't tell if troll.. so must be

Ya I don't know either way the thread made me lol.

[discoepfeand]

You both actually have pretty limited gear, and that could be a large part of your problem. A rogue relies on getting an advantage in the opener, and the less mitigation you have the more significant that's going to be. The gear is probably why you lose to everything else, too. It's a really big difference. I mean based on resilience alone you take about 30% more damage than my character would.

... lots of stuff ...

That's a really nice write up, asb. I've mained a rogue mostly since 2004, and have recently leveled and pvp'd with my warrior for MoP. I think this is a great write up of how to act in, and how to think of, the matchup from both perspectives.