No new dungeons, really Blizzard?

[Thimagryn]

TBC was 10 levels, MoP is 5. TBC had 13 heroics (ignore MgT), MoP has 9 (the three remakes, while being remakes, are still content). So, a difference of 4. Wooooooooo.

Now, if you're point was a jab at the lack of an level 90 normal dungeons, they aren't necessary since the barrier of entry into MoP heroics is so low.

On top of that, TBC had attunements and heavy reputation requirements. Meaning half of that content was locked and only available to maybe half of the players out there at the time.

I remember having to run regular dungeons for Cenarion rep until I could get into heroic Steamvaults, THEN rep up enough to get my first epic. Back then, there were no such things as dailies, scenarios or LFR so without a high number of dungeons there was literally nothing else to do (and why I cancelled my account till all guildies were geared enough to raid)

I don't see a problem with lack of new dungeons. They're only there to pre-gear, and everyone's got decent gear to to straight into 5.2 by now. Raiding is the end game progression, and if you're only concerned about gearing up alts through dungeons, then tough luck. Dungeons are for getting caught up to raiding, and if you're not raiding then you're wasting your time gearing your alts for no reason.

[Dravelar]

It was fair for those old players. They had a whole year of fun in the game doing current content during the whole time. And Blizzard will not ask the same ilvl for Terrace than 5.2 LFR, so 480 is AT LEAST what they will ask (which is what you adquired after 4 months).

You are implying that they won't have any other way of getting gear in 5.2,which we don't know yet.In fact, i think complains like this should only be made when we know completely what is going to happen in the patch.Otherwise,what anyone says today might be pointless tomorrow

[hakujinbakasama]

The longest I've had to wait for a LFR queue to pop has been about 25 minutes. I only see an hour happening at odd time and I don't see 2 hours happening at all. I've never seen a queue of more than 45 minutes for LFR since it was introduced.

You missed the context of his post. Once 5.2 hits some people are going to be able to progress into the new LFR. Others will still be stuck as will any new player or toon coming up yet the populace pool will be less thus making increased que times. Or at least that is his theory which is fairly reasonable.

[Duster505]

The longest I've had to wait for a LFR queue to pop has been about 25 minutes. I only see an hour happening at odd time and I don't see 2 hours happening at all. I've never seen a queue of more than 45 minutes for LFR since it was introduced.

That doesn't mean that others are not waiting for much longer. Average waiting time for me last week was over 50 mins and that was the last straw for me. I could have done it as healer tho but since the loot system is so bad and Im forced to get DPS gear to do brawlers guild and not kill myself during dailies.... I felt forced to do it DPS cause it was the ONLY viable way to gain dps gear.

But like I said - it was the last straw for me. I unsubed and dont plan to go back while unbalanced LFR (in terms of roles played ) is going to be the "gear progression" of MOP.

PPL also seems to forget that LFR drops based on 1 run per week are way to random to actually make it a viable gear progression method for players that will come in later in this expansion.

[Deleted]

Dungeons are catch up mechanisms, thats why they are neccesary now, because we dont have proper catch up mechanisms yet. They HAVE to add dungeons so people have ways to catch up with current content to play with their friends.

LFR?!?!

I honestly think they're going to increase the chances for loot from the T14 LFRs when T15 comes out - turning it into a catch-up mechanism like you said.

[Millennía]

Tbh I am fine without having any new dungeons because new dungeons are bottle necked so people have to run the same 2-3 dungeons over and over again to gear up which is so boring and tedious - like ZA/ZG for many, many months.

[hakujinbakasama]

On top of that, TBC had attunements and heavy reputation requirements. Meaning half of that content was locked and only available to maybe half of the players out there at the time.

I remember having to run regular dungeons for Cenarion rep until I could get into heroic Steamvaults, THEN rep up enough to get my first epic. Back then, there were no such things as dailies, scenarios or LFR so without a high number of dungeons there was literally nothing else to do (and why I cancelled my account till all guildies were geared enough to raid)

Blizzard recognized the issue with Heroic Achievements and lowered the requirements to Honored I do believe. Dailies existed at level 60 so your claim in bullshit. LFR not existing wasn't a problem in anyway shape or form.

The biggest problem, which was also addressed was gearing for raiding which is why heroics and epics were added prior to t4. A great deal of people still feel as if some atonement should be required, though again, Blizzard reduced the requirement for several of them.

In short, they tried something, scaled it back, tweaked it, and then later did away with it. Kinda like how everything works with wow. The problem to a certain degree is that they try something, fuck it up, get it going better, and the completely do away with it the following expansion for something NEW AND WONDERFUL only for it to be fucked up, require a lot of attention and tweaking, and then do away with it all over again. It's fucking stupid.

[Duster505]

You are implying that they won't have any other way of getting gear in 5.2,which we don't know yet.In fact, i think complains like this should only be made when we know completely what is going to happen in the patch.Otherwise,what anyone says today might be pointless tomorrow

BLizzard said that they did not intend to add new valor gear other than few rep items (with new dailies) and current valor gear would not be sold later for Justice points. Cause that would make lower tiers of LFR pointless.

But I think ppl are pointing out that lower tiers of LFR are pointless any way they go. Cause Q times are the real killer. With so much focus on DPS in MOP (dailies and Brawlers guild) and very unfriendly system for multiroles (valor ilvl system) - we will probably see 2-3 times the waiting time for an old raid tier.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Dungeons are catch up mechanisms, thats why they are neccesary now, because we dont have proper catch up mechanisms yet. They HAVE to add dungeons so people have ways to catch up with current content to play with their friends.

You've constantly just spouted crap that has no basis in reality.

Catch up mechanisms: JP (t14 VP gear will drop to JP, like has been the case since Wotlk), VP/dailies (new faction rewards), t14 LFR, t15 LFR, crafted 496 gear, 3 world bosses with a high respawn timer, t14 raids (which may possibly be nerfed based on how well pugs are fairing there in 5.2, even after pugs have acquired their full 489-496 sets from JP/world bosses).

BC and Wotlk through 3.2 did just fine without adding in new dungeons. BC had a lot of dungeons, but that's irrelevant to the 'catch up mechanism' point' because people who wanted to 'catch up' on gear only ran several of them, and they never added new ones that gave increasing rewards (just the badge reward system, which, again, only resulted in several dungeons being run per day).

Yes, in this new system you can't just cap out on raid-worthy gear in one day. That is probably an intentional design- people won't run ZG/ZA 15 times a day and then quit within a week because of dungeon burnout.

[anaxie]

Durnholde and BM didn't replace any already existing dungeons. But even if to not count them (I was not big fan of these 2 either), it would still be 13 dungeons :P More than twice what we have in MoP.

Ok and the first tier of MoP shitstomps Karazhan/gruuls/and Mags. It's looking like T15 length and quality is going to shitstomp T5 too. Sorry but I'll take lengthy raids and quality over more 5mans. Likely won't be hard to stomp BT/hyjal either becuase hyjal was terrible and poor design and most of BT was faceroll or locked behind weeks of Shadow heart farming.

They have alot more systems <CM/Scenario, 10/25/LFR, factions that dwarf all of tbcs combined group by group, pet battles, and alternative gameplay elements to deal with rather then the RAID OR DIE model of TBC that was so gear and guild dependant it hurt.

You imagine how compelling Kara in modern time would be if the place had something other then bosses with 2 mechanics vs the complex boss encounters we have today. Hell look at the upcoming ToT. Some bossfights have more mechanics in them then an entire vanilla/ TBC raids entire zone of bosses combined.

[Flaks]

Like I've said, the fact of the matter is MOST players who play at max level play for one of two things depending on pve or pvp: dungeons or random bgs. Gutting either of those is a terrible idea.

We've effectively gotten fewer dungeons in this expansion than ever before due to scenarios and dailies. You'd be hard pressed to find players who prefer ether of those things to more dungeons. Just like you'd be hard pressed to find a substantial amount of pvp'ers at all in this game due simply to the state of botting in bgs.

[Deleted]

Tbh I am fine without having any new dungeons because new dungeons are bottle necked so people have to run the same 2-3 dungeons over and over again to gear up which is so boring and tedious - like ZA/ZG for many, many months.

They can easily make it so that when you queue up for a random dungeon it picks one from all 90 dungeons, not just the new ones. And they could make it so that, if you've already done one of the new dungeons, it doesn't pop up that day again until the ID resets.

[Deleted]

They can easily make it so that when you queue up for a random dungeon it picks one from all 90 dungeons, not just the new ones. And they could make it so that, if you've already done one of the new dungeons, it doesn't pop up that day again until the ID resets.

But no one would be doing it for anything but the gear. People would just queue specifically for the new dungeons.

[Duster505]

Blizzard recognized the issue with Heroic Achievements and lowered the requirements to Honored I do believe. Dailies existed at level 60 so your claim in bullshit. LFR not existing wasn't a problem in anyway shape or form.

The biggest problem, which was also addressed was gearing for raiding which is why heroics and epics were added prior to t4. A great deal of people still feel as if some atonement should be required, though again, Blizzard reduced the requirement for several of them.

In short, they tried something, scaled it back, tweaked it, and then later did away with it. Kinda like how everything works with wow. The problem to a certain degree is that they try something, fuck it up, get it going better, and the completely do away with it the following expansion for something NEW AND WONDERFUL only for it to be fucked up, require a lot of attention and tweaking, and then do away with it all over again. It's fucking stupid.

Ye - I think alot of players are now realising how bad many of the new systems in MOP really are. Already BLizzard has pushed alot of healers out of the expansion with their focus on dailies and undegeared healer in tier 15 is totally worthless. That on its own forces an already casual guild to go do T14 again to gear up but paying casual subscribers will not accept that.

[Flaks]

Ok and the first tier of MoP shitstomps Karazhan/gruuls/and Mags. It's looking like T15 length and quality is going to shitstomp T5 too. Sorry but I'll take lengthy raids and quality over more 5mans. Likely won't be hard to stomp BT/hyjal either becuase hyjal was terrible and poor design and most of BT was faceroll or locked behind weeks of Shadow heart farming.

Just like VERY few people saw BT/Hyjal (let's not even talk about SW) in tBC and MOST people did dungeons MoP needs to learn that this status quo isn't going to change no matter how much Blizzard tries. With LFR they've effectively killed pugging, with LFD they made dungeons to be easier to access than ever. With rep from tabards/dungeons they were even more attractive. Going to a completely different style of play after getting their playerbase used to something else is going to hit Blizzard where it hurts. I'd bet that the q4 losses are going to rival those from 4.1.

[Duster505]

You've constantly just spouted crap that has no basis in reality.

Catch up mechanisms: JP (t14 VP gear will drop to JP, like has been the case since Wotlk), VP/dailies (new faction rewards), t14 LFR, t15 LFR, crafted 496 gear, 3 world bosses with a high respawn timer, t14 raids (which may possibly be nerfed based on how well pugs are fairing there in 5.2, even after pugs have acquired their full 489-496 sets from JP/world bosses).

BC and Wotlk through 3.2 did just fine without adding in new dungeons. BC had a lot of dungeons, but that's irrelevant to the 'catch up mechanism' point' because people who wanted to 'catch up' on gear only ran several of them, and they never added new ones that gave increasing rewards (just the badge reward system, which, again, only resulted in several dungeons being run per day).

Yes, in this new system you can't just cap out on raid-worthy gear in one day. That is probably an intentional design- people won't run ZG/ZA 15 times a day and then quit within a week because of dungeon burnout.

Actually Blizzard has stated that current valor gear will not be bought with justice points later on. Cause there is no new Valor gear coming instead. Thats what LFRs T15 are for.

[Deleted]

Like I've said, the fact of the matter is MOST players who play at max level play for one of two things depending on pve or pvp: dungeons or random bgs. Gutting either of those is a terrible idea.

We've effectively gotten fewer dungeons in this expansion than ever before due to scenarios and dailies. You'd be hard pressed to find players who prefer ether of those things to more dungeons. Just like you'd be hard pressed to find a substantial amount of pvp'ers at all in this game due simply to the state of botting in bgs.

source for this claim? i really doubt that anyone's favourite WoW content is represented by these ridiculously easy heroics.

[hakujinbakasama]

Ok and the first tier of MoP shitstomps Karazhan/gruuls/and Mags. It's looking like T15 length and quality is going to shitstomp T5 too. Sorry but I'll take lengthy raids and quality over more 5mans. Likely won't be hard to stomp BT/hyjal either becuase hyjal was terrible and poor design and most of BT was faceroll or locked behind weeks of Shadow heart farming.

Superfluous at best. To most, the amount of bosses has ZERO to do with the value of a raid tier. Go ask people how "awesome" ICC was.

In reality, the sets Uldar apart is the environment. THAT is the real issue and not the number of bosses. Kara, while tied with Uldar for me, was really awesome because of how different the fights felt at the time. Uldar had both rapidly changing environments and extremely different feeling bosses. If you look at ICC for example, lots of bosses, boring ass environment, not well loved as time went.

The biggest thing that Naxx had going for it was that you could do it in quarters. Which, to this day, people still seem to prefer. That was the element from TBC which made t4 and t5 bearable. You could just "go" to the other place.

[Deleted]

But no one would be doing it for anything but the gear. People would just queue specifically for the new dungeons.

Then only allow people to do the new dungeons once a day. People will still run the other dungeons for VP.

[Deleted]

Which means the last 8 years were lame. Because IIRC....ONE patch every x-pac had new 5 mans.

Yes. Bliz do sod all for the sub money. A couple of 5mans per patch is not unreasonable. Bliz has always done pathetically little for the sub money it rakes in, the most worrying thing is that players defend it!

Look at character models, not enough resources.....they only take how many millions per month? Whilst devs with 1:20th of wows subs manage to do new models.