Ghostcrawler tweet about 25 man, let the speculation begin!

[katta]

its a huge difference when you did it without coming from an Overgeared 25 man raid with a 5% debuff active. Alot did it with a DPS offtank so they never needed a Second timer that most didnt even had anyway. Blackhorn is no dumb example this Boss was way way harder on 10man. Even Spine was crazy, People always only see the DPS req but this Fight was very Heal intense.

You really think spine was even close to the same difficulty on 10 man as it was on 25? Now thats funny. I guess you probable think alakir was easier on 25 man also right?

[Deleted]

You really think spine was even close to the same difficulty on 10 man as it was on 25? Now thats funny. I guess you probable think alakir was easier on 25 man also right?

Sinestra, Hagara, Blackhorn, Madness. They were all way way harder in 10 men. Spine was harder in 25 for a day tho, it was hotfixed nerfed and then it was the same but still easier on 25 because you could have 3 resto shaman with spirit link totem's opness.

[Espe]

If the community wanted to do 25s that badly they would be doing them. Nothing beyond the lack of player base interest on some servers are stopping them.

This.

Some people want the greater executional challenge of 10m. Other people want to coast to easy epics in 25m. They are simply different styles of play.

Check my sig for more details.

[Deleted]

This.

Some people want the greater executional challenge of 10m. Other people want to coast to easy epics in 25m. They are simply different styles of play.

Check my sig for more details.

Again, your sig is taken out of context and is about LFR and not 25HC where you wont kill the boss having 1 or 2 players dead in any major part of the fight.

[katta]

Let us forget how the number of tanks (not 5 on on 25, only 2, and with better dps due to more vengeance), healers (not always 5, 8 or certainly not 10), external CDs, number of people taking care of mechanics and losing dps, work per fight.

Why people won't accept that T11, T12 were imbalanced for 10 and 25, but T13, T14 and hopefully onwards, Blizzard have done a great work of balancing encounters (although the balance most of the time come of having the same number of fights slightly easier for each of the sizes)... Sincerely, don't you think that Blizzard have pay a bit more of thinking, being their job at all that, and have missed those things?

What external cds? In 10 mans you can figure 2 tanks and 2 heals and 6 dps for most fights and on 25 man 2 tanks 6 heals and 17 dps for the fights. 25 mans dps each have to have a much higher avergage DPS than in 10 mans.

As for your carrying dps in 25 mans. Yes you can but you can in 10 mans also, you just dont look for it. If you have 3 DPS that are outstanding and 1 normal you can carry a below average play. Just like in 25 mans if you have 10 outstanding DPS you can carry 2-4. You want to make it sound like 20 average DPS can carry 5 bad players in 25 which isnt the case at all. In 10 mans you can carry the same ratio of players with same ratio of great players as in 25 mans.

[Deleted]

What external cds? In 10 mans you can figure 2 tanks and 2 heals and 6 dps for most fights and on 25 man 2 tanks 6 heals and 17 dps for the fights. 25 mans dps each have to have a much higher avergage DPS than in 10 mans.

As for your carrying dps in 25 mans. Yes you can but you can in 10 mans also, you just dont look for it. If you have 3 DPS that are outstanding and 1 normal you can carry a below average play. Just like in 25 mans if you have 10 outstanding DPS you can carry 2-4. You want to make it sound like 20 average DPS can carry 5 bad players in 25 which isnt the case at all. In 10 mans you can carry the same ratio of players with same ratio of great players as in 25 mans.

Sincerely, I'm rather tired of these threads. There is nothing to learn here, only teach the same again and again to random people. Sya, and enjoy your size, whatever you are raiding on.

[Deleted]

I was thinking more in the line of:

Chance of getting an extra item (so 7 instead of 6 now)
Elder Coins have a higher chance of giving an item than in 10mans
Mounts/transmog bonus dropping only in 25man
Less durability loss than 10man?

[katta]

Sinestra, Hagara, Blackhorn, Madness. They were all way way harder in 10 men. Spine was harder in 25 for a day tho, it was hotfixed nerfed and then it was the same but still easier on 25 because you could have 3 resto shaman with spirit link totem's opness.

Sinestra was T11 so we wont even talk about that one even though I dont agree with you. You must have watched the world first kills and said wow they made it look easy and we have a hard time on it so it has to be harder on 10s. Better players make things look easier no matter the level, that doesnt mean the content is easier though.

Most 10 mans are use 3 heals and put the pressure on your dps to preform or go 2 heals and put the pressure on your healers.
Most 25 mans is drop to 6 or 5 healers to make the dps requirements possible while your healers still having pressure to preform.

[Espe]

Again,

Again, it is obvious that the quote is referring to 25s in general. Just read it again and see.

And again, there are already plenty of incentives for doing 25m instead of 10m. Some people just want the greater executional challenge of 10m. Some people like the easier route to gear and are willing to put up with the logistical (read: outside of the actual raid instance) effort required to get it in 25m.

It's that simple.

[Nuckels]

Again, it is obvious that the quote is referring to 25s in general. Just read it again and see.

And again, there are already plenty of incentives for doing 25m instead of 10m. Some people just want the greater executional challenge of 10m. Some people like the easier route to gear and are willing to put up with the logistical (read: outside of the actual raid instance) effort required to get it in 25m.

It's that simple.

How you are not banned yet for provoking a arguement with this consistant subtle troll with that sig is beyond me, honestly is.

Warning: Please don't make a post about why a poster needs be banned. Please contact us mods if you think that is the case, the 'report post' option is there for a reason so are PMs. Cheers - Azshira

[Blablubs12]

Greater executional challenge of 10m? I lol'd.

[katta]

Sincerely, I'm rather tired of these threads. There is nothing to learn here, only teach the same again and again to random people. Sya, and enjoy your size, whatever you are raiding on.

Thats original.

[mercutiouk]

LOL I totally read that as "This is going to cause a shitstorm and we don't want to fuck up our vacation. Come back later"

One thing it probably isn't, given that he said it was going to be "controversial" is removing the shared lockout. Or higher iLvl gear. Those are things people are expecting and/or want to see.

Gonna be fun to see what they spring on us, if for no other reason than to laugh at the table-flipping.

I think removing the shared lockout would both solve the issue AND be amazingly controversial. All those 10m "world first" guilds needing to find another 15 ppl for the roster again or get outgeared heavily by the competition.

For the rest of us it would mean we get to do more raiding which, while yes, dull due to content burn-out/boredom WOULD mean a return of the pug raid on mains which was around during WOTLK.

For me it's the most likely too, if you look at the decisions made recently the dev team seem to be looking at what made the game popular previously and trying to steer it back in that direction. One thing that definitely sticks in my mind from wotlk was the sat/sun pug raid. It let you get to know people on your server a bit more and required a bit in the way of community and rep on your own server (as no-one would invite someone most people had met and considered a tool). The 5-mans were stupidly easy (they've made current 5 man fairly easy again) but there was obviously no LFR which is there now as part of the progression path.
Gear is a bit harder to get hold of this expansion though, again something that's helped make wow good in the past (plenty to look forward to character progression wise).

With the introspective outlook I'd think this the most likely outcome.

[Deleted]

Did you do H-Deathwing pre-nerf, in progression gear, on 10 man? I did, and we rotated sac/pain supp on impales as well. Your point is simply not true. I've already pointed out how things like barrages on H-Blackhorn hit for THE SAME AMOUNT in both 10 and 25. Crushes had a much bigger impact in 10 man because you couldn't overlap it, because to beat the enrage, you usually 2 healed it, and to have multiple people getting crushed meant the healing would fall behind. Some mechanics (mostly to do with raid wide damage) scale differently between the two difficulties, but not all, and often not tank abilities, at all.

Edit: Also, do we have any confirmation that 10 man is balanced for 2 healers? I thought it was balanced for 3, and that most progression kills come with 2 healers to up the DPS. That's another problem in comparing them - swapping a healer for a DPS decreases your healers by 1/3rd and increases your DPSers by 20% in 10 man. In 25, those swaps are much smaller in impact.

Hes right tbh

---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 03:05 PM ----------

Greater executional challenge of 10m? I lol'd.

Fact is that every single encounter with a hard enrage timer has been a non-issue in 10 man.

[Exac]

25-man raids Are going to reset twice a week, just like all raids do in Korea and Taiwan.

[Deleted]

25-man raids Are going to reset twice a week, just like all raids do in Korea and Taiwan.

This makes no sense at all.

[katta]

How about this?

They take 1 person for the top 100 25 man guilds and create 10 10 man groups.
They take 2-3 people from the top 100 10 man guilds to create 10 25 man groups.

They each give them 1 month to raid together and get to know each other and then have them run the hardmodes in the same gear. Each fight everyone gets upgraded gear so loot drops done matter.

The groups that do better get to keep their original raid size as the one that loses becomes the casual raid style.

1. They cannot switch out any classes for any fights so the 10 or 25 you go in with are the only ones you use.
2. They will all have the same gear so RNG loot drops will have no advantages for any size.
3. Anything else wanted to be added so that no size has any advantage over the other except in raid difficulty.

That would be controvesial and fun to see.

[Woceip]

No way this happens imo.He already said that they wont allow the items to drop already "enchanted" with vp (ilvl increase) on 25 man.
So basically the revert to what wotlk was with 25 mans gear having higher stats than 10 is no way.

I don't see the correlation. Especially given that having things already upgrade takes aware the role that valor points serves in that scenario, which is why that's a good call not to have them drop pre-upgraded. The asian market already has higher ilvl from 25.

[katta]

This makes no sense at all.

Think he means that raids will reset 2 times aweek tues/sat? then if you have a kill in a 10 man raid it will cancel the sat reset.

So if you kill some 25 man bosses on tues and weds and then on fri you kill some more on 10 man then your raid will not reset on sat.

[Espe]

How you are not banned

Banned for speaking the truth? Or banned for giving my opinion, which happens to be backed up by the WoW devs? If you are upset about what I have to say, take it up with them.

Also, pretty sure it is against the forum rules to call someone a troll...