[Broken] Overpower costing 10 Rage

[lordzed83]

Well it is a good change. Welcome to Fury pvp daily basics
Btw they should buff zerk stance a bit. Give it 1% crit or something :P

[meathead]

I think thats what I have been trying to help you to understand, but it seems I have failed. The point I am making, as it stands now you CAN sit in DEF stance 100% of the time. You will do slightly less dps, its not even enough to really make a difference, this is why its a problem, otherwise why would they have added in a 10rage cost for overpower? Players in the ptr are sitting in DEF never going to battle at all. SO why don't try to understand what is being said and explain to me how being in DEF 100% of the time doing maybe 1kless dps at best is some how ok and right.

Just so help you understand, with out a rage cost on overpower there is never a need to EVER remove yourself from DEF stance.

OP now costs 10 rage.i find it funny that blizz makes op cost 10 rage,thats more rage then it ever has cost in any x-pac.at a time when rage has been normalized and warriors generate less rage then ever before.why make op cost more when we generate less rage= over kill. warriors on the ptr are having a hard time keeping up there rotation in battle stance with that nerf.there is not enough rage in any stance to keep up with the cost of OP now.in fine with the d-stance nerf being %15,the rest is over kill.maybe if blizz unnerfed battle stance "give back the -% damage on it"we could make you happy and just sit in battle.

answer me this
most if not all classes have passive reduction? Spriests shadowform, lock fel armor, rogues can have recoup+feint(still flop over but it's something). Mage has molten armor, dks blood presence, even hunters get 15% with the aspect, you get the point. Most classes at this point have 10-15% damage reduct, and taking away from warriors is retarded."

why is it wrong for warriors to have -15 damage reduction?

---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 12:23 PM ----------

Well it is a good change. Welcome to Fury pvp daily basics
Btw they should buff zerk stance a bit. Give it 1% crit or something :P

your right if these changes go live the way they are now.arms does not have enough rage for op regardless of stances.but fury has enough rage to SIT IN D-stance and not have to many rage issues.everyone will just go to fury and blizz will leave arms broken or nerf the shit out of fury.

[Anuibus]

Most of the classes with a passive 15% damage reduction are cloth classes to prevent them being devastated by physical damage dealers (rogue's recoup + feint are not passive, they are active abilities). Dks blood presense and warriors defensive stance is different, it's not an ability you're meant to have up 100% of the time resulting in a massive damage reduction. There needs to be a drawback to sitting in a stance that provides 15% damage reduction passive. DKs lose damage by being in a different presense, hunter's lose 10% RAP or a talent to get their damage reduction, but what do warriors lose? All we miss out on is rage income, but when half your rotation is free, is kind of irrelevant compared to the damage reduction. There needs to be an offset, some semblance of choice involved, not a choice to sit in defensive stance 100% of the time.


Also, fury can only sit in defensive stance and have enough rage if they get wild strike/enrage procs in 5.2. Since bloodsurge procs will make wildstrike free, those will be usable, and also RB only costs 10 rage so we can use that every now and then, but by no means can we maintain a rotation in the way arms can while we sit in defensive stance.

[Kankipappa]

Most of the classes with a passive 15% damage reduction are cloth classes to prevent them being devastated by physical damage dealers (rogue's recoup + feint are not passive, they are active abilities). Dks blood presense and warriors defensive stance is different, it's not an ability you're meant to have up 100% of the time resulting in a massive damage reduction. There needs to be a drawback to sitting in a stance that provides 15% damage reduction passive. DKs lose damage by being in a different presense, hunter's lose 10% RAP or a talent to get their damage reduction, but what do warriors lose? All we miss out on is rage income, but when half your rotation is free, is kind of irrelevant compared to the damage reduction. There needs to be an offset, some semblance of choice involved, not a choice to sit in defensive stance 100% of the time.

I see. So basically you're saying that melee shouldn't have 15% damage reduction against casters, because spells go right through the plate armor and do 100% already, but melee's physical should be always reduced on cloth armored class even more than cloth does, while also doing less pure DPS outside on PvE. There was a reason of bigger healthpools because of this back in the day.

Yeah, DK's do lose additional runic power regen, but still their main abilities run on with runes. Warrior's highest damage demand actually asks for rage (slam, execute and HS spam) so you can't really compare the two. Warriors are in so worse state here, while Frost DK can still output many Obliterates whenever he desires and runes allow.

[Flaks]

if you seriously think that 10% less damage mitigation will cause you to die in a cheap shot you have some serious issues; far more than a nerf to overpower will ever entail

My experiences show this to be the case. I am constantly dying in a rogue opener (cs -> ks) while in defensive stance and on the current PTR build where the stun suppression on second wind isn't active yet.

A warrior not in defensive stance is a dead warrior. A warrior in defensive stance is still most likely a dead warrior. We had high passive mitigation because of being the most easily controlled class in the game. The avatar nerf, while necessary, gutted us and it was only other terribly broken (overpowered) mechanics that still kept us afloat. Now that they are gone AND our few saving graces are being taken away, expect warriors to be easy kills once again.

[Deleted]

warrior stops using defensive stance ---> warrior dies in a cheap shot

Well that's non sense. Anyways, if you're focussed, you can still go def stance. You have to decide whet´her you need more survival or more damage.

Having very good damage and taking a lot less damage is just stupid.

[Miko]

No warriors wants to do that. To used to training dmg in MOP. I'm glad we got hear nerfs and ill enjoy being a viable target in arena again.


Also, lol@ the warriors dying in stuns on live. Just not possible.

[Rubiconator]

The amount of people in this thread who dont play this game and has zero clue about class or pvp in general makes me frightened. No wonder that Blizzard nerf us with all these sheeps playing this game.

[Miko]

The amount of people in this thread who dont play this game and has zero clue about class or pvp in general makes me frightened. No wonder that Blizzard nerf us with all these sheeps playing this game.

So you think warrior is some how balanced atm? Come on and wake up, you nor anyone else thinks the class isn't OP and needed this change.

Its ok for a class to have a 15% dmg reduction in a CD form or even passive, the class would just have to be balanced around that ability. Warrrior where not. They are the only melee plate to have that ability and be able to abuse it in a fasion that wasn't what the original buff was given for. Going to DEF to stop a burst is one thing, hanging out in it bc you can isn't how it works. I also have not seen any problems with the full rotation as long as I am in battle.

[Gatsu]

I'm quoting myself from another thread in the PvP section

Kinda agree on the fact we are OP on live (not that much some ppl is trying to say btw, many teams over 2300 did their way before 5.1 nerfs and now they're just sitting there).
Shockwave is annoying (for others ofc :P), 20s CD is really dumb.
Charge stunning for 3s with Warbringer was dumb too, but now the talent is completely useless.
Defensive stance granting 25% damage reduction was too much, 15% is a better number.
Second wind not healing through stuns is kinda VERY bad, but they buffed the other 2 talents, so maybe Impending Victory could become the way to go against Rogue/Mage teams.

All those nerfs are acceptable, even though Warriors will lose a lot of control, and I would like to see 1min CD to Intimidating shout back at this point...

BUT

what really makes me sad, is the 10 rage cost on Overpower.
Really, guys, if you don't play a warrior, you can't understand how this change will fuck up our rage management.
Basically, you will have to stay in battle stance to generate enough rage to put pressure (that is ok), making Def stance a huge damage loss.
So, in the end, everything will be like: Train the warrior, force him defensive, let him do 0 pressure, s10-11 style.

They're basically nerfing Def stance AND the viability to stay in it. They should stick with one of them, not both.

[Miko]

They are nerfing it because while a person is in it on live they do not die.

[Aceshigh]

so we need everyone to be the same?ok cool-give warriors the damage dks do.

are you trying to say druids are soft when they go bear form?

Think you may have just kicked yourself and your own argument in the face.

What happens when a feral goes bear form? They lose damage at the cost of survival, they lose entire abilities for ones that don't hit as hard and use an alternate resource. This is what Blizzard are doing to warriors. Are you saying it's fine for a feral to lose damage and resources for gaining damage reduction but it isn't for warriors? Pretty bad example to bring up IMO lol

[Bonkbonk100]

The fact that some Warriors thought Blizzard intended you to do almost equal damage in def stance compared to battle stance is just lol.

Reckful is not pro, he is just fotm.

[Miko]

The fact that some Warriors thought Blizzard intended you to do almost equal damage in def stance compared to battle stance is just lol.

Reckful is not pro, he is just fotm.

One of the only seasons we can watch pvp footage of warriors running around out in the middle of the maps, not being targeted.

[Rubiconator]

If you didnt realize the topic - its about the 10 rage to overpower, its the SOLE nerf I have problems with, everything else is fine, shockwave, fear, avatar, defensive stance, second wind, you name it. But 10+ rage on the overpower is going to completely ruin our rotation with def stance or battle stance. Warrior wont have any sustainable damage unlike DK or Rogue in the next season and we will be far less of a threat to opponents and an EASY switch target.

[Calamari]

Thought at first too that the 10 rage cost on Overpower wouldn't be a biggie, until I tried it on test realm..

Am not PvPing on the 5.2 PTR, but there is something really wrong when even a fully PvE geared arms warrior (ilvl 391 with ~24% crit) sitting in BATTLE stance doesn't have enough rage to use Slam, and you can FORGET about Heroic Strike...

There is simply never enough rage left to do anything else now but monotonously grind through the TfB charges, because Overpower is bleeding rage like a _MF_, doing horrible things to the already mediocre rage generation that Arms has.

They've successfully crippled whats left of the dynamic playstyle Arms had in Cata, it's now close to pre-WotLK Ret in playstyle, well Fking done Blizzard.

[meathead]

Well that's non sense. Anyways, if you're focussed, you can still go def stance. You have to decide whet´her you need more survival or more damage.

Having very good damage and taking a lot less damage is just stupid.

how can you switch stances while stunned/cc'ed?you do know that b-stance had a -% damage reduction on it?these nerfs to warrior are over kill,the nerf to -d stance was all that wa sneeded.but blizz loves to kills specs even more so arms.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 01:05 PM ----------

Think you may have just kicked yourself and your own argument in the face.

What happens when a feral goes bear form? They lose damage at the cost of survival, they lose entire abilities for ones that don't hit as hard and use an alternate resource. This is what Blizzard are doing to warriors. Are you saying it's fine for a feral to lose damage and resources for gaining damage reduction but it isn't for warriors? Pretty bad example to bring up IMO lol

no its you that just kick yourself in the face wtf dont you get about warriors really?warriors in d-stance lose damage because you do not generate rage like you cna in b-stance.for the last fuckign time,warriors do LESS DAMAGE IN D-STANCE THEN THEY DO IN B-STANCE.thats the draw back,get it now?also i do not give a fuck about the d-stance nerf,thats was fine.the probelm is the nerf to MS,OP AND 2nd wind.they did not need to be nerfed at all its over kill.

only bad pvper had probelm killing warriors with 2nd wind.never seen one reckful match where he was unkillable against other GOOD PVPERS.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 01:14 PM ----------

If you didnt realize the topic - its about the 10 rage to overpower, its the SOLE nerf I have problems with, everything else is fine, shockwave, fear, avatar, defensive stance, second wind, you name it. But 10+ rage on the overpower is going to completely ruin our rotation with def stance or battle stance. Warrior wont have any sustainable damage unlike DK or Rogue in the next season and we will be far less of a threat to opponents and an EASY switch target.

fear 2nd wind and op did not need to be nerf,the rest im fine with.just look at the fear nerf they said it was for control reason,ok i get that.but then they turn around and nerf heroic throw, war-bringer, shock wave ect becasue of control.with all the "control" nerfs they should have left fear alone.

do people realize that warriors are almost the same now as they were in cata talent wise.we had both BS and TD in cata,thats 1 stun every 40-45 secs and bs had a shoter cd back then "glyph". we also had heroic throw silence in cata thats gone now.OP can now be used back to back,just liek it was in cata before they nerfed the cd on it,but now it has more rage cost.avatar replaces the root brake that BS gave us back in cata,while pummel has been nerfed "longer cd now then in cata".and we lost grip,we no longer have HS root.i, starting to see the same class that we were at the end of cata,the only difference being we have better burst now because cd stacking and Lambs is gone.

[Miko]

how can you switch stances while stunned/cc'ed?you do know that b-stance had a -% damage reduction on it?these nerfs to warrior are over kill,the nerf to -d stance was all that wa sneeded.but blizz loves to kills specs even more so arms.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 01:05 PM ----------


no its you that just kick yourself in the face wtf dont you get about warriors really?warriors in d-stance lose damage because you do not generate rage like you cna in b-stance.for the last fuckign time,warriors do LESS DAMAGE IN D-STANCE THEN THEY DO IN B-STANCE.thats the draw back,get it now?also i do not give a fuck about the d-stance nerf,thats was fine.the probelm is the nerf to MS,OP AND 2nd wind.they did not need to be nerfed at all its over kill.

only bad pvper had probelm killing warriors with 2nd wind.never seen one reckful match where he was unkillable against other GOOD PVPERS.

The fact he was unkillable even one time is the problem, because after that they never targeted him. Oh, and btw being in D stance currently does nothing to your dmg. On the ptr however, the 10 rages makes it a big big problem to sit in D stance bc you will do the same kinda dmg that a DK does in blood. I havent had rage issues in battle tho.

[meathead]

Thought at first too that the 10 rage cost on Overpower wouldn't be a biggie, until I tried it on test realm..

Am not PvPing on the 5.2 PTR, but there is something really wrong when even a fully PvE geared arms warrior (ilvl 391 with ~24% crit) sitting in BATTLE stance doesn't have enough rage to use Slam, and you can FORGET about Heroic Strike...

There is simply never enough rage left to do anything else now but monotonously grind through the TfB charges, because Overpower is bleeding rage like a _MF_, doing horrible things to the already mediocre rage generation that Arms has.

They've successfully crippled whats left of the dynamic playstyle Arms had in Cata, it's now close to pre-WotLK Ret in playstyle, well Fking done Blizzard.

liek is been saying its overkill/over nerfing.warriors in b-stance cant keep up there rotation,so we can forget about d-stance and HS all together.now think of it in a pvp way.you need rage to use hamstring and PH,TC ect.theres not enough rage to even op and hamstring.

[Baracuda]

I don't think anyone cries because Overpower has a rage cost, but because the rage cost is TOO damn high. They're trying to encourage the use of the most boring ability ever created, Slam, and this isn't exactly helping. Just make it cost 5 rage and it'll still be too much for people to camp def stance 24/7.