Concerning Bolvar.

[Verdugo]

Or and I believe you and I are of the same mind in this (yes?)

I just have theory that they didnt know how to end the lich king story, but suddenly Metzen stormed into office and said something like "hey guys, I just saw this cool movie with Johnny Depp and..."

[Deleted]

Thats really bullshit. Any infestation in fiction is useless without hive mind. Zerg fight among themselves without overmind, Tyranids revert to animalistic state when severed from synapse, Necromorphs turn into sludge without marker. What makes scourge different. Their strengths were not in numbers, but by keeping those numbers going. They no longer have necromancers to keep raising them.

Thats no bs.

The only way it could be bs is if you expect bolvar to lie to you. In any other scenario the game itself tells you that the scourge must always be under controle.

[Zenko]

Yes but I already spoke about that in a later post - good point regardless Zenko

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20097220

Oops, thats what I get for posting at an ungodly hour.

Well, then entire living population in Northrend during wotlk had really strong anti-viral plot armor, because otherwise, everyone would be infected before we could clear Naxxramas.

I honestly was thinking something similar, heh. Clearly its not 100% success rate.

The original plague was transmitted orally via wheats, but the only way to spread it now would be via touch with lack of treatment. We know how to cure the plague, but if we have potentially thousands of zombies coming down from Icecrown via the oceans, eventually some random farmer will get infected when he least expects it, and maybe get his livestock/crop infected as well and ignore it until it is too late. It would be a super longterm maintenance project that no body wants to get their hands dirty with.

There's also the risk of renegades. Faux-LichKings trying to take the LKs place (if we just destroyed the LK's helmet instead). Whats to stop a necromancer from taking control of some wild zombies and sending them gift-wrapped into Stormwind Harbor?

[Deleted]

It wouldn't be an infestation at all. There is no more plague really. I dare say that you were attacked a lot by undead right ingame? Did you ever turn into an undead apart from during the transition from TBC to WOTLK?

Apart from that, let's say that it is an infestation and everyone who stumbled upon a corpse (touched it and the like) would be turned... wouldn't there be special units formed? Special strike teams ready to get this corpse and everyone it had infected quarantined? Cause that normally happen imo.

Ofcourse a lot of these teams would have their hands full in the beginning and villagers would probably be asked to leave their homes for a while until this undead "infestation" would have been dealt with properly. The few unnoticed corpses that remain would be dealt with later on. Much like mines in Real Life.

I also once died ingame and guess what, I could come back. This are game mechanics so you could actually play the game, imagin all the whining if every scourge contact ingame would kill you ;-)

And what normally happens is that the one who stumbled upon it would just ignore it and tell himself "I'm different, it won't change me" and try to ignore it.

[Vaelorian]

Oops, thats what I get for posting at an ungodly hour.

I honestly was thinking something similar, heh. Clearly its not 100% success rate.

The original plague was transmitted orally via wheats, but the only way to spread it now would be via touch with lack of treatment. We know how to cure the plague, but if we have potentially thousands of zombies coming down from Icecrown via the oceans, eventually some random farmer will get infected when he least expects it, and maybe get his livestock/crop infected as well and ignore it until it is too late. It would be a super longterm maintenance project that no body wants to get their hands dirty with.

There's also the risk of renegades. Faux-LichKings trying to take the LKs place (if we just destroyed the LK's helmet instead). Whats to stop a necromancer from taking control of some wild zombies and sending them gift-wrapped into Stormwind Harbor?

Whats to stop Jaina from just porting to Oggrimmar and destroying it? What is to stop an elite team of whatever class to port to location X and utterly laying waste to it?

Why didn't Gandalf summon the eagles to fly Frodo to Mount Doom? If you can answer that, you got the answer for your question too

---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 10:46 AM ----------

I also once died ingame and guess what, I could come back. This are game mechanics so you could actually play the game, imagin all the whining if every scourge contact ingame would kill you ;-)

And what normally happens is that the one who stumbled upon it would just ignore it and tell himself "I'm different, it won't change me" and try to ignore it.

Yeah but really did you see anyone turn into the undead cause he was infected (NPC)? I didn't see anyone turn like that. I did see people turn under special circumstances that didn't involve a plague but another form of necromancy.

[Synstir]

Hey

I just thought of something, do you think Bolvar will "turn" evil someday, and that we need to fight him as a new Lich King? I've never been a big lore fan or anything, but I killed LK again today and it made me think of it.

For those that do not know who I'm talking about:
Bolvar was a soldier of the alliance, that went up against the Lich King, got poisened by the Forsaken and burned by Dragons breath/fire. Wich left him as a living burned man.
And when the Lich King was defeated, he got crowned as a new Lich King, as there must always be one.

So what do you think? Will we see a return of Bolvar as an evil force, making us fight the scourge yet again.

I think Blizz put Bolvar in that position so we don't have to fight the LK again.... it is done; it is part of history.
Leave it where it is, in the past.
Why would we do a whole LK xpac again? We've done, seen it and beaten him.
To take him out of the picture Bolvar is there.......

[Deleted]

Also you should not forget that the actuall topic was first mentioned by Terenas Menethil and Tirion acknowledged the scourge problem by wanting to take that the LKs place himself.

One can only deny Bolvars "good" intentions but not that the scourge poses a threat without LK.

[Verdugo]

Also you should not forget that the actuall topic was first mentioned by Terenas Menethil and Tirion acknowledged the scourge problem by wantig to take that the LKs place himself.

Well too bad that Tirion is naive idiot that could be deceived by anyone.

[Zenko]

Whats to stop Jaina from just porting to Oggrimmar and destroying it? What is to stop an elite team of whatever class to port to location X and utterly laying waste to it?

Why didn't Gandalf summon the eagles to fly Frodo to Mount Doom? If you can answer that, you got the answer for your question too

To entertain me? X_x

[Vaelorian]

To entertain me? X_x

You get a cookie

[Ethas]

Why didn't Gandalf summon the eagles to fly Frodo to Mount Doom? If you can answer that, you got the answer for your question too

Because he cant push eagles to do what he wants - they are free and gorgeous beings under control of their king - descendant of Torondor, they do not obey anyone. Also they couldn't make it while countless armies of Mordor and Nazguls are patrolling the whole territory. I wouldn't compare Tolkien's lore to Metzen's one, even if later is just the copy of former at some extent.

OT: we obviously can't predict what Blizzard is gonna make with LK lore, but I think it's time will come when they will be at desperate need of decent expansion, since WotLK was the best of all. Personaly I think that making Bolvar the bad character is wrong decision, but knowing Blizzard and it's trend in reusing content...

[Vaelorian]

Because he cant push eagles to do what he wants - they are free and gorgeous beings under control of their king - descendant of Torondor, they do not obey anyone. Also they couldn't make it while countless armies of Mordor and Nazguls are patrolling the whole territory. I wouldn't compare Tolkien's lore to Metzen's one, even if later is just the copy of former at some extent.

OT: we obviously can't predict what Blizzard is gonna make with LK lore, but I think it's time will come when they will be at desperate need of decent expansion, since WotLK was the best of all. Personaly I think that making Bolvar the bad character is wrong decision, but knowing Blizzard and it's trend in reusing content...

I wasn't really looking for a lesson in Middle Earth cannon/lore, as I well know it (GEEK!!! ). It was just an example and a well known question asked by many and not an illogical one at that.

You could argue that Tolkien actually had a good answer for a lot of loopholes. Where this "plague" and the continued existance of the Lich King does not really. Or atleast not as logical as the Tolkien one.

[Dastreus]

If i'm not mistaken, King Terenas is laying in Western Plaguelands.

Wrong. King Terenas is buried at the capitol city of Lordaeron above the Undercity. Uther the Lightbringer is buried at Sorrow Hill, Western Plaguelands.

[Vaelorian]

Wrong. King Terenas is buried at the capitol city of Lordaeron above the Undercity. Uther the Lightbringer is buried at Sorrow Hill, Western Plaguelands.

Has been answered a page or 2 back.

[Curanhadin]

Because Inwordly Arthas wanted to be defeated..he knew he had to be, it is the reason why he left the path for the heroes to defeat him in the first place...at least thats my belief .. and why he spoke to his father in the way that he did, yanno the.."Is it over Father?.." scenario

Plus i was stated the fragment of Arthas' humanity is what kept the scourge from over running everything s I agree he wanted to be defeated on some level.

[Vaelorian]

@ Curanhadin: Yes perhaps he wanted to be defeated as his statement suggests. But his humanity was destroyed by The Lich King as it was written as such in the book.

You had at a table:
-an elderly orc (Nerzul)
-a young kid (arthas when he was still pure and kind)
-the adult Arthas

The elderly orc (as far as I understood it) thought he controlled adult Arthas and the young kid withered away slowly. When the kid died, the orc thought that he finally had complete control. At that moment the adult Arthas killed the orc and became truly The Lich King.

[Ragashii]

What I'd really like blizzard to do with Bolvar is to have him emerge "corrupted". In the new expansion, the supposed level cap will be 95. We level through the burning scourge infested wasteland that was once northrend guided through our quests by a mysterious voice. The voice compels us to do certain things until we're level 95. It tells us of the new lich king and how he must be stopped at all costs as he is bent on destroying azeroth. With a little convincing, maybe even subtle mind-control we're fighting bolvar. It's a battle on a grand scale, lots of fire everywhere and it's not long before the entire battlefield is toasted. In the end, we defeat the lich king and he falls before us. The mysterious voice congratulates us on our victory, all seems to be going well. Suddenly a bunch of fiery portals start to open up all around us, a result from the energy released from all the fighting. We find a demonic device that siphons energy, hooked to a generator of course turns out the surface we fought on was a conductor. We destroy the generator but it is too late to stop the inevitable. Demons start to pour from the portals and we do our best to fight them off. The mysterious voice starts mocking us, relishing in our mortal stupidity and how naive we were.

Large scale battles erupt across azeroth, most of the now mortal dragonflights fall one by one right before we get there. After the flights are decimated wholly, the mysterious voice erupts from every corner of azeroth as the skies turn blood red. The voice turns out to be none other than the deceiver himself, in his grand plan he tricked us into destroying the lich king and distracted us long enough to finish off the flights. He also tricked us into releasing lots of energy to allow him to be summoned. A spell is cast that throws us into the world of demons and we have to go through each portal zone closing them, like in oblivion. The true level cap turns out to be 100, and we end up facing the most powerful demon lords along the way.

tldr: We're tricked by the deceiver into destroying bolvar, the energy from the battle is siphoned and used to summon Kil'Jaden.

[Tenjen]

we have no point of reference for Bolvar. Lich King Bolvar has gone into stasis like Arthas did when he donned the helm. So theres some kind of incubation process going on and the scourge have for the most part receded (or maybe thats Saurfang staring at them nonchalantly while slowly petting his axe). The fact the valkyr have left and gone to Arthas shows that Bolvar seems to have shaken things up atleast.

I for one hope Bolvar holds out and comes to our side against the legion and old gods. Thers potential for it to link to the forsaken plot.

[Vaelorian]

we have no point of reference for Bolvar. Lich King Bolvar has gone into stasis like Arthas did when he donned the helm. So theres some kind of incubation process going on and the scourge have for the most part receded (or maybe thats Saurfang staring at them nonchalantly while slowly petting his axe). The fact the valkyr have left and gone to Arthas shows that Bolvar seems to have shaken things up atleast.

I for one hope Bolvar holds out and comes to our side against the legion and old gods. Thers potential for it to link to the forsaken plot.

Where are you seeing that the Valkyr have left? I still see them in Northrend, don't you? Still doing the same stuff they did when Arthas was in control. Same for any other undead. All of them are still very much active in their respective zones and instances.

If you are referring to a novel or comic then I gladly be given a reference to that, cause I want to read everything concerning wow lore.

[Seani]

Hey

I just thought of something, do you think Bolvar will "turn" evil someday, and that we need to fight him as a new Lich King? I've never been a big lore fan or anything, but I killed LK again today and it made me think of it.

For those that do not know who I'm talking about:
Bolvar was a soldier of the alliance, that went up against the Lich King, got poisened by the Forsaken and burned by Dragons breath/fire. Wich left him as a living burned man.
And when the Lich King was defeated, he got crowned as a new Lich King, as there must always be one.

So what do you think? Will we see a return of Bolvar as an evil force, making us fight the scourge yet again.

I would highly doubt this. Bolvar was always the epic paragon of good. I remember in Vanilla when he takes on all of Onyxia's minions with his ret aura up. I think the Lich King/Scourge ship has sailed. The level 90+ characters will fight something else besides the scourge. Maybe even Sargeras himself, or something indirectly related to Sargeras.