Man...I'd forgotten about how difficult it is

[Deleted]

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/eu/draenor

Come on over to Draenor, I believe we're the best eu pve server going, nice high standard.

Horde? Haha, no thanks. Rather go to Silvermoon.
Being 1.5 score points above doesn't make your server any better.

[Akraen]

Well, as Guild Master of Natural Order (now on Stormrage, we gave up on our low-pop Ysera), I and my officers spend a lot of time looking for talent, reviewing apps, reviewing logs, etc.

We're constantly looking for good players. So if you're not finding a guild, consider us? I know we can't be the only guild really wanting to find more people for 25M heroics.

Unfortunately catch-up is very tough and many people are simply no longer patient enough to do what it takes to catch up and meet the requirements of heroic content.

[Ryme]

Horde? Haha, no thanks. Rather go to Silvermoon.
Being 1.5 score points above doesn't make your server any better.

Was... just a suggestion, no need to take personal offence :S

[Ninotchka]

If you've been on the server for a while and hopped guilds, you may have a reputation that's pulling you back. If you've insulted and raged at people in 'lesser' guilds, don't be surprised if people in more progressed guilds have heard about you. You never know when some derpy ditsy scrub in a social guild is actually the alt/girlfriend of the raid leader for the top guild on the server.

Do your best and don't be a jerk to the 'bad' guilds if you want to move on to a better guild. Communities are weaker today than they used to be, but they're still there.

[Angarin]

If you've been on the server for a while and hopped guilds, you may have a reputation that's pulling you back. If you've insulted and raged at people in 'lesser' guilds, don't be surprised if people in more progressed guilds have heard about you. You never know when some derpy ditsy scrub in a social guild is actually the alt/girlfriend of the raid leader for the top guild on the server.

Do your best and don't be a jerk to the 'bad' guilds if you want to move on to a better guild. Communities are weaker today than they used to be, but they're still there.

Its not even that. I've been 4 guilds now, 1 of them was one of those "recruit you at level 1 spam invites"

One was going to attempt to raid DS but then nobody ever showed up and I was what seemed the only one online most of the time. Then my guild back at MoP release. Which died off sometime in mid november.

And now the one I'm in now. I don't insult people harshly, I'm am a human being so words will spit out occasionally but nothing to harmful to even the thinnest of skulls.

[grimsanta]

Um, try finding a guild on a low-pop server. There are like 3 raiding guilds on horde side on my server, and I'm in the only one doing heroic progression. Because of the complete lack of players, we can't push a lot of heroic content just because its hard to find good players (we raid 25).

[Angarin]

Um, try finding a guild on a low-pop server. There are like 3 raiding guilds on horde side on my server, and I'm in the only one doing heroic progression. Because of the complete lack of players, we can't push a lot of heroic content just because its hard to find good players (we raid 25).

I actually was on fizzcrank until it died. I was apart of the top guild which changed to #2 frequently back in tier 11.

When it died end of tier 12, I told myself it was time to move, and I did so. But I know where your coming from.

[ripponesan]

It´s not always about the player.
If you are in a bad guild, and still run around in LFR set items some guilds just skip you cause you wont help much.
Sure it´s a cool thing to have a good DD that doesnt die. But i sucks to have a gimped one that cant bring the expected DPS no matter how good he is, because he´s kinda a whole tier behind.

[schwank05]

We just cleared MSV normal this week due to a 2 month break over the holidays. are we a bad raid group I don't think so. can we be better sure, do we need to be not really. I for one have no interest in heroics, same content different strategy... not for me. I thought heroics were a terrible idea, I way go back to early Wrath model where there were optional hard modes. I am fine with clearing content on normal only, but LFR is there so I can do that if I want to anyway.

[Ygorl]

If their DPS is 25% higher than yours, and they're only 10-15 ilvls above you... Doesn't that mean they're better than you? I mean, isn't the rule of thumb that you get about a 1% increase in DPS (maybe a hair more) for each ilvl? So if they're 10-15 ilvls ahead of you, you should really be doing 87-91% the damage they are (maybe a hair less) if they're not better than you.

And if you want to claim that you're dramatically better than them... Well, 10-15% doesn't seem dramatically better, but it's at least better. If you're 10-15% better than them, you should be matching their top DPS when they're 10-15 ilvls above you.

Generally speaking, before you insult other people, it's prudent to take a careful look at where you stand. Of course, generally speaking, there's not a lot to be gained by insulting other people period.

[Hyve]

The fact that I can pull 80% of their top 3 dps'ers dps when I'm 10-15 ilevels behind. When they have at least 6 more gem slots & possibly even sha touched weapons.

Who are still stuck in normal. Like I'm not asking to be carried through heroics & full normals, but I assume most guilds have alt groups that are in heroic progression...

The problem is probably your crap attitude. Most guilds (Mine included) don't care for people who can do 80% more Damage if their attitude is fully focused on being better then other people. Those two sentences show a very aggressive stance, of someone who feels they're far superior then the guilds they're trying to join, and they should be honoured by your consideration.

Honestly...I don't even know if I want to continue playing WoW again. I haven't been in a successful guild that lasts longer than 3-4 months since BC that raids consistently. My wrath guild did fine but they were completely casual, we treated icc 10m like lfr now.

And again, more abusive comments to a group of people, which is doing nothing but putting a negative light on you. You've bad mouthed the guild(s) you're trying to join, 10 Man Guilds & people who raid only using LFR ...

Not surprising no-one wants you.

[schwank05]

Its all about server rep for me I guess, been on the same server since release of the server. I could join some of the top 10 guilds on our server just out of knowing people. I have never filled out an application for a guild, just have people ask me to join them. But I am also very loyal to a guild and usually stick around until I am one of the last 5 people in it. I have only been in 3 different guilds in my 8 years of play.

[Angarin]

If their DPS is 25% higher than yours, and they're only 10-15 ilvls above you... Doesn't that mean they're better than you? I mean, isn't the rule of thumb that you get about a 1% increase in DPS (maybe a hair more) for each ilvl? So if they're 10-15 ilvls ahead of you, you should really be doing 87-91% the damage they are (maybe a hair less) if they're not better than you.

And if you want to claim that you're dramatically better than them... Well, 10-15% doesn't seem dramatically better, but it's at least better. If you're 10-15% better than them, you should be matching their top DPS when they're 10-15 ilvls above you.

Generally speaking, before you insult other people, it's prudent to take a careful look at where you stand. Of course, generally speaking, there's not a lot to be gained by insulting other people period.

You basically said something...then did an entire u-turn.

I'm honestly...completely confused

[Ygorl]

You basically said something...then did an entire u-turn.

I'm honestly...completely confused

I'm honestly completely confused at your confusion, but I'll paraphrase and see if that helps.

Paragraph 1: Given the ilvl disparity and the DPS disparity, it looks like their DPS is more skilled than you.

Paragraph 2: If you were merely 10-15% better than them (which, honestly, is not a tremendous skill delta), you'd be matching their top DPS despite the ilvl disparity.

Paragraph 3: Gratuitous sermonizing.

[Angarin]

The problem is probably your crap attitude. Most guilds (Mine included) don't care for people who can do 80% more Damage if their attitude is fully focused on being better then other people. Those two sentences show a very aggressive stance, of someone who feels they're far superior then the guilds they're trying to join, and they should be honoured by your consideration.



And again, more abusive comments to a group of people, which is doing nothing but putting a negative light on you. You've bad mouthed the guild(s) you're trying to join, 10 Man Guilds & people who raid only using LFR ...

Not surprising no-one wants you.

What your not understanding though, is I didn't have this attitude before joining. I made it clear with him what I wanted before I joined. I was actually hoping for them to show me how dps works. I'm not saying dps is all, but before the raid he said if I can pull 70-80k dps he'll put me into progression. I said alright no problem. Did I reach that threshold? No, but did half of his other dps? No, only 2 of them did and they're 488+ so I'd hope so.

I don't have this attitude, I really don't as much as people want to believe it seeing here. I've been playing & raiding WoW since december of 2005. I know where numbers are appropriate and not, but if someone is going to judge you on numbers & restrict you from progression because of it, and his core raiders can't even pull what he expects of me, then I honestly, can't expect much from them anymore.

I didn't bad mouth anyone, you looked at it as if I did, but I didn't. I loved my guild back in wrath. I just wish they'd raided more consistently as a whole.

Honestly, I'd love to write a paragraph of negative comments about what you've just said there and possibly more if I looked at your posting history, but I'm not gonna stoop down to where you walk. I'm better than that...

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 09:30 AM ----------

I'm honestly completely confused at your confusion, but I'll paraphrase and see if that helps.

Paragraph 1: Given the ilvl disparity and the DPS disparity, it looks like their DPS is more skilled than you.

Paragraph 2: If you were merely 10-15% better than them (which, honestly, is not a tremendous skill delta), you'd be matching their top DPS despite the ilvl disparity.

Paragraph 3: Gratuitous sermonizing.

Paragraph 1: Where are you getting this?

Paragraph 2: Where are you getting this?

Paragraph 3: ?

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 09:34 AM ----------

If their DPS is 25% higher than yours, and they're only 10-15 ilvls above you... Doesn't that mean they're better than you? I mean, isn't the rule of thumb that you get about a 1% increase in DPS (maybe a hair more) for each ilvl? So if they're 10-15 ilvls ahead of you, you should really be doing 87-91% the damage they are (maybe a hair less) if they're not better than you.

And if you want to claim that you're dramatically better than them... Well, 10-15% doesn't seem dramatically better, but it's at least better. If you're 10-15% better than them, you should be matching their top DPS when they're 10-15 ilvls above you.

Generally speaking, before you insult other people, it's prudent to take a careful look at where you stand. Of course, generally speaking, there's not a lot to be gained by insulting other people period.

So after re-reading this to what you paraphrased it to, I came to this.

Your saying they're "better & more skilled than me" because they have better gear? Might as well bring gearscore back while your on that mindset

NO where did I say I was doing more damage than them. I said I was doing 80% of their dps. Lets go back to basic math here. If I eat 8 of your 10 cookies this week. And you get 10 of your 10 cookies next week, that means I ate almost as much as you. If my body could hold 2 more cookies, I'd eat those 2 more. Thats what I'm saying...

[Dawnrage]

Link some WoL parses or something. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and think you are super awesome, but realize that 1) you play an affliction lock - the highest DPS class next to arcane mages 2)what is the rest of the raid playing? Shadow priests with 488 ilevels don't pull exception numbers on single target fights, same with several other specs.

It isn't a "I pull 80k everyone else pulls lower than that" thing. Specs/gear are huge factors. Again, link the WoL of this guild and we'll see.

[Angarin]

Because I know the internets epeen level, I'm only private messaging that. If you want it, pm me, but I don't publicly post logs because this thread will sky rocket in epeen within seconds after.

[Ygorl]

No, sorry, I'm making specific quantitative statements. I'm saying they're more skilled than you because:
1) with how much better their gear is, they should be doing 10-15% more DPS than you
2) they are doing 25% more DPS than you

Using your cookie analogy, let's say your stomach can hold 8 cookies before you get full. My stomach can hold 9 cookies before I get full. Obviously, I can eat more cookies than you, my stomach is bigger. Then you eat 8 cookies, and I eat 10 cookies, and then you call me a sissy because you ate almost as many cookies as I did even though your stomach is smaller.

[Deleted]

To find a half decent guild on even a high pop server...

The fact that I can pull 80% of their top 3 dps'ers dps when I'm 10-15 ilevels behind. When they have at least 6 more gem slots & possibly even sha touched weapons.

Who are still stuck in normal. Like I'm not asking to be carried through heroics & full normals, but I assume most guilds have alt groups that are in heroic progression...

Honestly...I don't even know if I want to continue playing WoW again. I haven't been in a successful guild that lasts longer than 3-4 months since BC that raids consistently. My wrath guild did fine but they were completely casual, we treated icc 10m like lfr now.


I don't know if I'm frustrated or disappointed.

Well, you are aiming for a guild in the top 10% -20% of the world, given your statements here. You also (if your statements about you performance are true) able to live with that level of play.

The only issues I can see are

Not very good but equally not very bad attitude. You are a bit demanding and upfront but not nasty about it. No big issue, but might put some people off.

and

Unrealistic expectations of the rest of the playerbase. Imagine someone who is only average DPS and then realise 49% of people are even worse than that. Most guilds haven't completed normal modes. Very few have done ANY HC boss successfully. You need to either admit you want top 10% - 20% raiding, or adjust your sights for a "decent" guild until it matches reality. (i.e. the average guild is still plodding through normal modes.) if you can't cope with the time issues and demands of top end raiding, then accept you ain't doing the content you like.

Good luck with it.

[Angarin]

Well, you are aiming for a guild in the top 10% -20% of the world, given your statements here. You also (if your statements about you performance are true) able to live with that level of play.

The only issues I can see are

Not very good but equally not very bad attitude. You are a bit demanding and upfront but not nasty about it. No big issue, but might put some people off.

and

Unrealistic expectations of the rest of the playerbase. Imagine someone who is only average DPS and then realise 49% of people are even worse than that. Most guilds haven't completed normal modes. Very few have done ANY HC boss successfully. You need to either admit you want top 10% - 20% raiding, or adjust your sights for a "decent" guild until it matches reality. (i.e. the average guild is still plodding through normal modes.) if you can't cope with the time issues and demands of top end raiding, then accept you ain't doing the content you like.

Good luck with it.

I am actually noticing alot of people basically subtlety hinting at what you say "unrealistic expectations of the playerbase"

I just returned to WoW after leaving mid november & leveled my lock straight to 90 in about a week.

I mean I remember tier 11, it was rough, but yeah I can see this I suppose.

But yeah, thanks for clearing that up even though I didn't ask. Made it a little easier to bear.