anyone else tired of the MoP raid designs?

[SamR]

boring is subjective. to me this garbage is boring.

throwing in 8-10 random mechanics on every fight consisting of some kind of void zone/add wave/dispel is definitely lazy.

look at black temple and sunwell... each fight had what... 2-3 mechanics? maybe 4? and still arguably the best raid tier. quality > quantity

The sad truth is that any of those old 2-3 mechanic fights would be pretty trivial if released today. Raiders today are way better at execution than they were in vanilla/TBC. The same way that TBC raiders looked back on Rag as a simple and easy fight, today's raiders would look at Heigan as pretty simplistic.

The hardest fight in BT wasn't even Illidan. It was Mother Sharazz. And the whole fight was basically wear shadow resist and run away from the 2 other people when you get ported. It's embarrassingly simplistic and easy compared to even normal mode raids of today.

[suicidebears]

So if raiding and this expansion is so great... Why are 25 man guilds dying out? And raiding guilds in general...? Im willing to bet my account the population in game is decreasing.

[SamR]

Current encounters are lazily designed in the sense that they just throw more crap at you instead of sitting down and putting the effort into nutting out a cleaner and elegant but still challenging encounter. Safety dance was a good example.

What was so challenging about Heigan? Once you figured out how to do the dance, he was a pushover. Hell, you didn't even need everyone to figure out the dance. As long as half your raid could dance, you could still win.

[Zenko]

So if raiding and this expansion is so great... Why are 25 man guilds dying out? And raiding guilds in general...? Im willing to bet my account the population in game is decreasing.

Because we keep recruiting people like you who cant be pleased and/or dont know what they want.

This expansion simply brought the most to the table compared to the other ones. I raid strictly 25man and dont bother with 10s because I find them boring. But, I quit the game in general because of the massive amount of free games out there that fill my niche.

Also, old game is old.

[Condemner]

idk maybe hire some new blood with new ideas? this entire expansion follows the SAME formula. almost every fight

They are hiring almost constantly. Also I'm having a blast raiding now. I do think not all the fights are great, but the diversity is awsome. I kind of have the feeling you can't keep up with the mechanics.

I wish you all the best, but I like raiding how it is now and sure hope they won't change their design.

[l33t]

Kinda agree with OP. Horridon is awful. Council is awful either. Thrash before Horridon is the symbol of awfulness (those who programmed and planned that idiocy should be immediately fired, IMO).
Raids nowadays become more and more and more complex not in terms of difficulty, but in terms of awful design, where you have overwhelming number of abilities thrown in you with all that bashing, splashing, millions of unavoidable raid damage incoming, DBM crying and people oneshotted every here and there. WoW is moving towards arcade style MMO based on reaction, and it really saddens me. Remember my words - just wait some time and we'll have QTE environments implemented in raid bosses' mechanics.
MV had just nice design up to last boss. Then here we have again an omg add crowds and boss that basically doing nothing at all instead of throwing in moar crowds of adds. God damn it. I passionately HATE bosses that contain switches into adds mechanics. And you know what? Looks like almost all new tier bosses are of such kind. You know, it just don't feel epic to kill that thrash over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

What was so challenging about Heigan? Once you figured out how to do the dance, he was a pushover. Hell, you didn't even need everyone to figure out the dance. As long as half your raid could dance, you could still win.

And just what is so bad in that? It is a much smoother design then when you lost just one man and your entire raid has to die, because of tight enrage unbeatable with 9 people.

[Iso]

So if raiding and this expansion is so great... Why are 25 man guilds dying out? And raiding guilds in general...? Im willing to bet my account the population in game is decreasing.

Cause the game is 8 years old. Everything has it's peak, and wow has most likely reached it's a good while ago. Nor is population a good meassure of quality. As you even said, quality over quantity.

In terms of raiding, I find it refreshing. Dancing in naxx was fun, sure but 1 trick pony encounters gets boring really really fast. Once that shit was on farm is was a snore fest, move left/right dps, loot, next. Dynamic encounters offers so much more than the simple things you got in the past. WoW is old, so things will feel redundant no matter what's done to the game.

[Deleted]

I stopped raiding during ICC, but before that I've seen next to all but old school naxxramas.

2-3 mechanics are simply put boring.

I still think of LK25HC as the best fight i have raided. It was many new mechanics it was interesting, it was relentless and it was unforgiving. Many things one needed to watch out for and everyone died of one of twenty five did a single mistake during a 15minute period.

It wasn't hard mathematically, it was hard because the mechanics where so unforgiving.

To simply tank and spank bosses was never very fun. (think patchwerk) But in the end the boss needs to be defeated and 3 roles must be filled. So within these walls the numbers of mechanics available are simply depleted. There aren't many new mechanics that can be added that we never have seen before. So instead of just make an encounter that people have seen before they add more mechanics, combining mechanics to make the fight harder and feel "fresh".

TL;DR The number of different mechanics are depleted, they started combining mechanics to make new fights seem interesting. The game is old, you're tired of the game.

[dandex]

If you do not like it, just stop playing for a few months until a some new content realeses

[SamR]

And just what is so bad in that? It is a much smoother design then when you lost just one man and your entire raid has to die, because of tight enrage unbeatable with 9 people.

Nothing bad about that. I like forgiving fights. But I'm just disagreeing with the person I quoted who held Heigan up as a challenging fight. He wasn't.

[SamR]

Oh yeah, Heigan. If you raided him in the real Naxx, you knew there was an extra room where ppl could get teleported and had to fight their way out in time. Plus superannoying megatrash before him that meant basically entering Heigans room and pulling.

Yup, and you always had the guy who would run out of that ported room without checking wave status and get killed. :P

[seventysix]

Black temple & Sunwell plateu 3-4 mechanics per boss!?!? did you even do Illidin or Kil'jaeden? what about M'uru? You're out of your damn mind.

[Kheirn]

I don't know about you guys but I'm enjoying Mists of Pandaria more than I've enjoyed any other expansion. And yes, I've done the Classic, BC, Wrath and Cata raids when they were current, without nerfs. Ok, maybe not Sunwell, last part of AQ and Naxx, mainly because I just didn't really bother at the time.

I like the complexity this expansion brings and personally I'm really looking forward to Horridon. We only raid fridays and sundays so I haven't been able to do that fight yet.

[Chrno]

The sad truth is that any of those old 2-3 mechanic fights would be pretty trivial if released today. Raiders today are way better at execution than they were in vanilla/TBC. The same way that TBC raiders looked back on Rag as a simple and easy fight, today's raiders would look at Heigan as pretty simplistic.

The hardest fight in BT wasn't even Illidan. It was Mother Sharazz. And the whole fight was basically wear shadow resist and run away from the 2 other people when you get ported. It's embarrassingly simplistic and easy compared to even normal mode raids of today.

eh no mate, just no.

Humans did not evolve in the past 7/8 years into uber gamers with super duper reaction times. Overall (!) high end raiding back then is as hard as raiding is now. Naxx40 and Sunwell would def. not be considered easy raids by today's standards.

and what you said about mother sharazz ... i srsly wonder if you were being serious, it was a gear check nothing more nothing less it was the patchwerk/ultraxxion of BT. Always super easy fights mechanics wise to 'gate' the content

[Golden Yak]

I like complicated bosses. The don't stand in the fire challenge doesn't do it for me anymore. Now it's stand in the water, but not when thunderballs are flying at your face. And don't stand in the water when it's full of lightning, Jesus Christ!

[Elexo]

The only mechanic I've always hated were adds.
They're never interesting, they have the same old skin as regular trash, no lore and ussualy no greater involvement than: OT pick up adds, nuke them down and maybe interupt (x)

As a tank I find them annoying to deal with, especialy in big numbers.
But not annoying as in difficuly and challenging... just annoying.

Other than that I quite like a lot of MoP bosses so far despite quite a few are nothing more than gearchecks in a time where gearing up feels like a clunky daily chore.

[Okacz]

I don't get one thing.

Madness of Deathwing was the biggest fail of a boss that has ever existed, and thus, the biggest letdown. Why was it so bad? Well - essentially you didn't fight a boss here, only a bunch of deformed adds. When you are told to fight a dragon, you expect to at least face him.

Didn't Blizzard get the memo? Add fights are NOT funny. Yet T14 has a nice bunch of them (Will of the Emperor, from a dps standpoint, is extremly annoying). And as far as I'm concerned... most of T15 are add fights. Horridon, Tortos, Dark Animus, Ji'Kun, the list goes on.

Why? To make a boss entertaining you just let the players face him and hive him an interesting set of skills. Why can't we fight Horridon himself, with a tactic of trying to tame him against his master or crush his skull by charging him into walls? Why are those lackluster adds even required?

[Deleted]

So if raiding and this expansion is so great... Why are 25 man guilds dying out? And raiding guilds in general...? Im willing to bet my account the population in game is decreasing.

This quote confirmed what i was thinking already.


-Adds thread to box of unconstructive haters -

[wowsucks]

Blizz overall game design philosophy changed, to appeal to the i wanna see the content now crowd.

Also people calling heigan faceroll? lol

[Deleted]

So boring content like heigen is hard work from blizzard. But complex fights are lazy? Seems like you are just trying to find something to hate on. Would take MoP raiding over dumbed down faceroll content anyday.

Oh really? Heigan is faceroll easy? Well, at least you can't outgear the encounter. And trust me, lots of people wipe simply because paying attention and walking is too difficult.