Are protein shakes worth it?

[TJ]

Because you said you shouldn't drink protein shakes when trying to lose weight. This just says protein doesn't matter or suggests whey protein would be a bad source for the protein we do need.

No, it says you'll get enough protein from a well thought diet. Drinking protein shakes in addition to your diet will add calories and make it harder to lose weight. What you think it suggests is different to what it actually means.

[Bonkura]

Personally I use whey during diets because it's so cheap compared to other options. I'm allergic to seafood (which is expensive anyway) and the only low fat meat sources I have that I can afford is chicken, ham and occassionally 10% minced beef on sale. Add eggwhites on that and I have 3-4 main sources of protein that I can afford to eat on a daily basis. So I add whey to that list and just eat more veggies if I get hungry.

[Deleted]

You won't burn muscle.. Unless you are physically drained until the point that you are in actual medical danger (assuming a proper diet).

[url]http://scoobysworkshop.com/does-cardio-burn-muscle/

My eyes! My beautiful eyes! I hope you just don't use scooby as any source of information, unless your in it for the laugh. He is the biggest bullshitter known to the bodybuilding community, and should under no circumstance be used as a reliable source of information.

But with that said it's not entirely wrong. People over exaggerate the muscle breakdown in regards to cardio, but saying that muscle breadkwon will only happen when your in medical danger is plain wrong. As soon as your pulse raises and your body needs energy it will slowly begin to breakdown muscle for energy through the amino acids. This however is very minimal to a point where you could say its insignificant. But extended cardio during a cut, you might experience a bigger loss of muscle than you would if you were only dietting.

In my personal opinion, I feel that cardio is a tool best used rarely. Resistance training gives almost if not all the same health benefits that cardio gives, as well as other benefits. During bulk, the last thing one might want is to have a even higher calorie consumption and a risk of potential muscle breakdown from cardio, and during cut it endangers you of losing more muscle than intended.

[TJ]

My eyes! My beautiful eyes! I hope you just don't use scooby as any source of information, unless your in it for the laugh. He is the biggest bullshitter known to the bodybuilding community, and should under no circumstance be used as a reliable source of information.

But with that said it's not entirely wrong. People over exaggerate the muscle breakdown in regards to cardio, but saying that muscle breadkwon will only happen when your in medical danger is plain wrong. As soon as your pulse raises and your body needs energy it will slowly begin to breakdown muscle for energy through the amino acids. This however is very minimal to a point where you could say its insignificant. But extended cardio during a cut, you might experience a bigger loss of muscle than you would if you were only dietting.

In my personal opinion, I feel that cardio is a tool best used rarely. Resistance training gives almost if not all the same health benefits that cardio gives, as well as other benefits. During bulk, the last thing one might want is to have a even higher calorie consumption and a risk of potential muscle breakdown from cardio, and during cut it endangers you of losing more muscle than intended.

Please prove to me how Scooby is a bullshitter.

[jbhasban]

My eyes! My beautiful eyes! I hope you just don't use scooby as any source of information, unless your in it for the laugh. He is the biggest bullshitter known to the bodybuilding community, and should under no circumstance be used as a reliable source of information.

But with that said it's not entirely wrong. People over exaggerate the muscle breakdown in regards to cardio, but saying that muscle breadkwon will only happen when your in medical danger is plain wrong. As soon as your pulse raises and your body needs energy it will slowly begin to breakdown muscle for energy through the amino acids. This however is very minimal to a point where you could say its insignificant. But extended cardio during a cut, you might experience a bigger loss of muscle than you would if you were only dietting.

In my personal opinion, I feel that cardio is a tool best used rarely. Resistance training gives almost if not all the same health benefits that cardio gives, as well as other benefits. During bulk, the last thing one might want is to have a even higher calorie consumption and a risk of potential muscle breakdown from cardio, and during cut it endangers you of losing more muscle than intended.

Cardio is more important than lifting for general health. Now, if you do resistance training like crossfit does, then yeah, you dont need to do cardio. But it is rare to get your heart rate high enough to get the benefits of cardio without traditional cardio unless you are lifting legs.

---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 03:12 PM ----------

Please prove to me how Scooby is a bullshitter.

http://cdn.scoobysworkshop.com/wp-co...ic_posture.jpg

In his "good posture" image, he has what is known as a military posture. His shoulders are a tad too far back and his chest a tad too far forward. And he still has an exaggerated anterior pelvic tilt. See this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jXJi7LGN7Y...0/military.JPG

It looks to me like he has tight hip flexors and weak serratus anteriors.

Honestly, his lack of knowledge is pretty systemic. He is better than most people in bodybuilding, though. Most people have what he shows in the right image, a lordotic posture. It is also hard to see in the image but I think he may have some forward head motion going on.

[TJ]

I don't see how that is proof that his hundreds of videos are apparently now void.

[jbhasban]

I don't see how that is proof that his hundreds of videos are apparently now void.

I cant be bothered to go through each video and show how each and every one is inaccurate. I can only try and poison the well. I realizing poisoning the well is a logical fallacy but what you suggest we do is absurd.

[Erous]

For weight loss, my main sources of protein became egg whites and Greek Non-fat yogurt. This has given me a good boost when working out and keeping me full. A suggestion I would make is to maybe add a low calorie, protein-rich energy or supplement bar to use when you've come back from a heavy workout to recharge. Like some have said, to maintain weight loss with weight lifting, you'll need to swap exercises and not focus on one area...you'll need quick and plentiful rep counts to keep your heart rate up.

Best weight loss tips I can give is to cut out on unhealthy snack foods, like soda, candy...and keep a good workout regimen that includes a focus on cardiovascular...running, swimming, biking(this is my workout) basketball, etc.

[TJ]

I cant be bothered to go through each video and show how each and every one is inaccurate. I can only try and poison the well. I realizing poisoning the well is a logical fallacy but what you suggest we do is absurd.

lol suggesting what? Saying that I'm apparently asking you to go through all of his videos and tell me what's wrong is absurd. I'm just asking for some proof.

[jbhasban]

lol suggesting what? Saying that I'm apparently asking you to go through all of his videos and tell me what's wrong is absurd. I'm just asking for some proof.

What would constitute proof to you?

He holds himself out as an expert in terms of physical fitness including, among other things, posture.

I showed that he did not know what good posture is.

He, by definition, is putting himself out as an expert in a field where he lacks some basic knowledge.

I think that fulfills anyone's definition of a bullshitter. Now, I never said all his videos are void. I said he is a bullshitter. If you want me to prove that ALL of his videos are void, I would be required to go through each video and prove that each video is inaccurate. That is exactly what you asked. Otherwise, the best I can do is try and show that a bunch of monkeys are unlikely to write a masterpiece. Or, in other words, that someone who is willing to bullshit about one field of physical fitness is also willing to bullshit about other fields of physical fitness. Could he be accurate in other areas? Of course. You throw enough darts and one is bound to hit the mark no matter how bad at darts you are.

[Deleted]

lol suggesting what? Saying that I'm apparently asking you to go through all of his videos and tell me what's wrong is absurd. I'm just asking for some proof.

http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/ suggesting that building muscle and losing fat is viable.

Look any any of his benchpress or military press suggestions, he's barely using half ROM and suggestion that anything else than what he does is a safe path to injury.

Even his physics are wrong: http://scoobysworkshop.com/squat-myths/ and so are his assumptions on squats and alternative exercises.

Look any of his nutritional guides, I saw one a year ago where he had like 4 protein shakes a day and suggested students to do the same. I'm usually a big pro-protein, but what he was suggesting was retarded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=-hEEjxdYXog#! at about 1 min makes me laugh. Suggests that you gain 15 pounds of fat a year if you drink 1 beer a day. Yup, seems legit. at 3:35 hes says "Its very common for supplements such as creatine to cause liver problems". Another piece of broscience bullshiet.

I could go on, but hopefully you get my point. Scooby can be a fine introduction to beginners as he is hardly suggesting anything that can be harmful to you, but thats about it, his fysiological and nutritional knowledge is non existant.

[Eazy]

My main concern is losing weight, but if it really could help, I wouldn't mind sacrificing 250-300 calories to help build muscle.

You cannot reduce weight and build muscles in the same time. There are no exercises to do that(maybe some of them can do it in a little way, but nothing special, it would be much faster and better to gain muscles and then reduce fat). You're novice, you don't need anything than NORMAL MEALS(after 2-4 years some(smart) people are getting Creatine, Glucosamine, Proteins(in tabs) just because they want to have MUCH bigger muscles, though after years your muscles are still going to grow up, but slower than at start).
And also, if you're trying to lose weight you SHOULD FIRST CHANGE YOUR DIET.
Try doing aerobic exercises for 15-20 minutes after every Weight-Lifting session if you don't want to make a special diet for yourself.

I'm just eating normal meals(no protein shakes, no injects with Testosteron or any other shit) and my muscles are getting bigger and bigger without any problem.

Many people are doing useless training because they do not know that diet is one of the most important thing while weight-lifting, do not believe in stupid new mixtures or other stimulants, because you can get muscles with NORMAL meals. And do not forget to focus on your training, there are 3 main-types of training:
to get Strenght, to gain Gain Mass or to Mold your Muscles, and for any of them you need other diet, special exercises and different number of reps and weight.

If you're just tiring your muscles you can do more bad for your body than good and even you can get many contusions if you don't know how to do some exercises(pain in back, slowly destroying your muscles, muscle tears and many other).
I'm not a professional Weight-Lifter but I'm experienced in this and I still train with effects.

That's all I think. Good health and take care about yourself!

[jbhasban]

http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/ suggesting that building muscle and losing fat is viable.

Look any any of his benchpress or military press suggestions, he's barely using half ROM and suggestion that anything else than what he does is a safe path to injury.

Even his physics are wrong: http://scoobysworkshop.com/squat-myths/ and so are his assumptions on squats and alternative exercises.

Look any of his nutritional guides, I saw one a year ago where he had like 4 protein shakes a day and suggested students to do the same. I'm usually a big pro-protein, but what he was suggesting was retarded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=-hEEjxdYXog#! at about 1 min makes me laugh. Suggests that you gain 15 pounds of fat a year if you drink 1 beer a day. Yup, seems legit. at 3:35 hes says "Its very common for supplements such as creatine to cause liver problems". Another piece of broscience bullshiet.

I could go on, but hopefully you get my point. Scooby can be a fine introduction to beginners as he is hardly suggesting anything that can be harmful to you, but thats about it, his fysiological and nutritional knowledge is non existant.

Actually, his squat myths thing is fairly accurate as to when it was made. It was long believed (until 2009 or so) that compressive forces increased disk degeneration. Recent studies have shown that this may not be true. That said, his suggestion of using leg press is kinda ridiculous. Leg presses are more likely to hurt you since people do not realize that their lumbar spine is curving. We now know that the primary danger of squats is not compressive forces but rather sheering forces on the spine. His physics also assumes a body with absolutely no body weight but I will give him a pass on that one. I also think he would be one to suggest people using leg extensions (though he didn't say as such), a machine well known to cause knee injuries.

Full range of motion is not needed for bodybuilders as you can increase muscle size just as efficiently going through less of a range of motion with more weight. And it is safer. I generally advise my bodybuilder clients not to do bench press but if they are, I have them do it without the full range of motion. So I actually think his advise in those videos (while limited) is pretty good for the general bodybuilder. It is shitty for a power lifter, obviously.

His alcohol thing is a bit ridiculous though. Alcohol isn't that harmful. I don't drink, myself, but there is nothing wrong with having a couple beers a week. Just don't get trashed very often. What he said was that if you cut out 1 beer a day you will lose 15 lbs in a year. 15*3500/365 = 144 calories. So if your beer were 144 calories, his statement would be pretty accurate. Now, obviously, your body isn't a vacuum and you could easily just eat more calories instead and there is no guarantee that all the weight loss will be fat but you understand his statement is just a generalization, I hope.

The creatine statement is obviously false.

[Deleted]

Actually, his squat myths thing is fairly accurate as to when it was made. It was long believed (until 2009 or so) that compressive forces increased disk degeneration. Recent studies have shown that this may not be true. That said, his suggestion of using leg press is kinda ridiculous. Leg presses are more likely to hurt you since people do not realize that their lumbar spine is curving. We now know that the primary danger of squats is not compressive forces but rather sheering forces on the spine. His physics also assumes a body with absolutely no body weight but I will give him a pass on that one. I also think he would be one to suggest people using leg extensions (though he didn't say as such), a machine well known to cause knee injuries.

Full range of motion is not needed for bodybuilders as you can increase muscle size just as efficiently going through less of a range of motion with more weight. And it is safer. I generally advise my bodybuilder clients not to do bench press but if they are, I have them do it without the full range of motion. So I actually think his advise in those videos (while limited) is pretty good for the general bodybuilder. It is shitty for a power lifter, obviously.

His alcohol thing is a bit ridiculous though. Alcohol isn't that harmful. I don't drink, myself, but there is nothing wrong with having a couple beers a week. Just don't get trashed very often. What he said was that if you cut out 1 beer a day you will lose 15 lbs in a year. 15*3500/365 = 144 calories. So if your beer were 144 calories, his statement would be pretty accurate. Now, obviously, your body isn't a vacuum and you could easily just eat more calories instead and there is no guarantee that all the weight loss will be fat but you understand his statement is just a generalization, I hope.

The creatine statement is obviously false.

He is still using that article as reference in newer discussions which means his views haven't changed.

We can agree that full range of motion isn't needed. Lets take bench press for example, he suggests to only do the upper half of the movement, the part where triceps begins to be more involved and lessens the stress on the chest as he reaches full lockout. For bodybuilders, reaching full lockout is terrible as it increases the tension on the elbows which leads to common injuries. When doing a limited range of motion, one should limit it to the most important part of the exercise, in the example of benchpress, from bottum to halfway through. In the end it is the time under tension which counts and doing lockouts will only decrease this. Besides, I've seen a few studies which shows that full ROM is both better for strength and mass. But if we are looking at his bench press example, and military presses, he is only using the upper half of the movement which is becoming a more triceps involved exercise than chest or shoulder.

Actually limited ROM training is essential for powerlifters to train their weak points for a given exercises. (Box bench presses, low hold bench press, deficit deadlifts, box squats, top squats and so on).

I understand its a generalization, but the way he portrays it is absolutely wrong and would be applicable to any other substance. If you drink 500ml of milk a day you will gain 15 pounds of fat. Nothing works that way yet he makes it seem so. The problem is his majority of viewers are younger inexperienced teens, they take his every word usually.

[jbhasban]

He is still using that article as reference in newer discussions which means his views haven't changed.

We can agree that full range of motion isn't needed. Lets take bench press for example, he suggests to only do the upper half of the movement, the part where triceps begins to be more involved and lessens the stress on the chest as he reaches full lockout. For bodybuilders, reaching full lockout is terrible as it increases the tension on the elbows which leads to common injuries. When doing a limited range of motion, one should limit it to the most important part of the exercise, in the example of benchpress, from bottum to halfway through. In the end it is the time under tension which counts and doing lockouts will only decrease this. Besides, I've seen a few studies which shows that full ROM is both better for strength and mass.

Actually limited ROM training is essential for powerlifters to train their weak points for a given exercises. (Box bench presses, low hold bench press, deficit deadlifts, box squats, top squats and so on).

I understand its a generalization, but the way he portrays it is absolutely wrong and would be applicable to any other substance. If you drink 500ml of milk a day you will gain 15 pounds of fat. Nothing works that way yet he makes it seem so. The problem is his majority of viewers are younger inexperienced teens, they take his every word usually.

Once again, as far as disk degeneration is concerned, there are animal studies that show compressive forces increases disk degeneration in animals. There are studies that show that back pain correlates with compressive forces in humans. There are studies that show hat back pain correlates with disk degeneration in humans. There are no studies that show that compressive forces in humans correlates with disk degeneration. There is one study from 2009 that shows that compressive forces does not correlate with disk degeneration in humans. From this knowledge, his statement that squats can cause disk degeneration is not necessarily wrong. It is simply not known right now. There is contradicting evidence.

Of course powerlifters workout through different ranges of motions to hit their weak spots. That is not what I was talking about though and you know it.

Yeah, bodybuilders should not lock out. But they shouldn't touch their chest necessarily either. Some people have really poor shoulder mobility. You can work on it to the point where they can touch their chest (and I would) but some people have a ton of shoulder pain when hitting their chest with a bench press (I am one of them). I rarely bench press but when I do, I go to about 1-1.5 inches over my chest so as not to hurt my shoulders. Being about to touch your chest with a bench press is not necessary for a bodybuilder nor is it really needed for general health.

[Deleted]

Once again, as far as disk degeneration is concerned, there are animal studies that show compressive forces increases disk degeneration in animals. There are studies that show that back pain correlates with compressive forces in humans. There are studies that show hat back pain correlates with disk degeneration in humans. There are no studies that show that compressive forces in humans correlates with disk degeneration. There is one study from 2009 that shows that compressive forces does not correlate with disk degeneration in humans. From this knowledge, his statement that squats can cause disk degeneration is not necessarily wrong. It is simply not known right now. There is contradicting evidence.

Of course powerlifters workout through different ranges of motions to hit their weak spots. That is not what I was talking about though and you know it.

Yeah, bodybuilders should not lock out. But they shouldn't touch their chest necessarily either. Some people have really poor shoulder mobility. You can work on it to the point where they can touch their chest (and I would) but some people have a ton of shoulder pain when hitting their chest with a bench press (I am one of them). I rarely bench press but when I do, I go to about 1-1.5 inches over my chest so as not to hurt my shoulders. Being about to touch your chest with a bench press is not necessary for a bodybuilder nor is it really needed for general health.

And when we have contradicting evidence, lets use anecdotal ones. I haven't ever experienced back problems with doing squats, I know a lot of people who haven't had issues with their backs after squats (some have had issues which went away after beginning to squat), and I see no known athlete who squats which have had issues. There is of course something called poor form which can cause issues, but this can happen in all exercises. We know that a strong core is detrimental to having a healthy back, and squats are one of the best core exercises.

Sorry, I didn't understand what you ment then, when you say limited ROM is shitty for powerlifters that what I assume your saying.

Poor shoulder mobility and shoulder pain should be adressed, not avoided by changing exercises. I used to not go chest deep during bench press, but I must admit after I have begun doing so, my chest has seen significant gains in both strength and mass which I haven't seen in years.

[TJ]

What would constitute proof to you?

He holds himself out as an expert in terms of physical fitness including, among other things, posture.

I showed that he did not know what good posture is.

He, by definition, is putting himself out as an expert in a field where he lacks some basic knowledge.

I think that fulfills anyone's definition of a bullshitter. Now, I never said all his videos are void. I said he is a bullshitter. If you want me to prove that ALL of his videos are void, I would be required to go through each video and prove that each video is inaccurate. That is exactly what you asked. Otherwise, the best I can do is try and show that a bunch of monkeys are unlikely to write a masterpiece. Or, in other words, that someone who is willing to bullshit about one field of physical fitness is also willing to bullshit about other fields of physical fitness. Could he be accurate in other areas? Of course. You throw enough darts and one is bound to hit the mark no matter how bad at darts you are.

"My eyes! My beautiful eyes! I hope you just don't use scooby as any source of information, unless your in it for the laugh. He is the biggest bullshitter known to the bodybuilding community, and should under no circumstance be used as a reliable source of information."

That means he has no useful videos, whatsoever. So every single one of his videos would be void, which is what I was addressing. I thought you were also addressing this in your points. I was not asking you to go through every one of his videos and say exactly what is wrong, I don't see how you'd think I meant that.

[jbhasban]

And when we have contradicting evidence, lets use anecdotal ones. I haven't ever experienced back problems with doing squats, I know a lot of people who haven't had issues with their backs after squats (some have had issues which went away after beginning to squat), and I see no known athlete who squats which have had issues. There is of course something called poor form which can cause issues, but this can happen in all exercises. We know that a strong core is detrimental to having a healthy back, and squats are one of the best core exercises.

Sorry, I didn't understand what you ment then, when you say limited ROM is shitty for powerlifters that what I assume your saying.

Poor shoulder mobility and shoulder pain should be adressed, not avoided by changing exercises. I used to not go chest deep during bench press, but I must admit after I have begun doing so, my chest has seen significant gains in both strength and mass which I haven't seen in years.

Lots of old school bodybuilders have back pain. Lifters, in general, have more back pain than non lifters once they get to old age. Football players have a ton of back pain after they retire. If you had back pain, do you really think you would still be squatting? I dont think your argument holds any water.

I don't care about mass. I lift for health. I generally do open chain movements these days and care more about having a trim, fit body. Not having huge V. I do work on my shoulder mobility but part of it is structural. Humans have the same sort of make up but each of us is unique and each of us have different structural quirks. Anyways, bodybuilders get more benefit from heavy incline db work than bb work. You can better focus your chest with dbs.

And yes, you should avoid anything that causes you pain in the gym. Pain signifies you have hit your body's limit and/or you are injured. You should address it with RICE and try to extend your limit but you shouldn't force your body beyond its limits (like hit parallel with squats, so many bodybuilders think they HAVE to hit parallel and end up with sciatica as a result).

[TJ]

My eyes! My beautiful eyes! I hope you just don't use scooby as any source of information, unless your in it for the laugh. He is the biggest bullshitter known to the bodybuilding community, and should under no circumstance be used as a reliable source of information.

But with that said it's not entirely wrong. People over exaggerate the muscle breakdown in regards to cardio, but saying that muscle breadkwon will only happen when your in medical danger is plain wrong. As soon as your pulse raises and your body needs energy it will slowly begin to breakdown muscle for energy through the amino acids. This however is very minimal to a point where you could say its insignificant. But extended cardio during a cut, you might experience a bigger loss of muscle than you would if you were only dietting.

In my personal opinion, I feel that cardio is a tool best used rarely. Resistance training gives almost if not all the same health benefits that cardio gives, as well as other benefits. During bulk, the last thing one might want is to have a even higher calorie consumption and a risk of potential muscle breakdown from cardio, and during cut it endangers you of losing more muscle than intended.

Also "As soon as your pulse raises and your body needs energy it will slowly begin to breakdown muscle for energy through the amino acids." no it doesn't (not straight away anyway), that's what I was saying. It will only get to that stage when you have burnt through all of your carbs and fat and you are completely drained. When you are in this state you won't be able to see properly and will likely feel very ill and light headed. Medical danger wasn't intended to be taken as "You will die" more like you're not doing your body any favours.

It also seems to be getting heated in this thread, my comments are not intended to be taken in an arrogant manner if that's how anyone sees them. I definitely don't mean to start some arguments.

[Deleted]

Lots of old school bodybuilders have back pain. Lifters, in general, have more back pain than non lifters once they get to old age. Football players have a ton of back pain after they retire. If you had back pain, do you really think you would still be squatting? I dont think your argument holds any water.

I don't care about mass. I lift for health. I generally do open chain movements these days and care more about having a trim, fit body. Not having huge V. I do work on my shoulder mobility but part of it is structural. Humans have the same sort of make up but each of us is unique and each of us have different structural quirks. Anyways, bodybuilders get more benefit from heavy incline db work than bb work. You can better focus your chest with dbs.

And yes, you should avoid anything that causes you pain in the gym. Pain signifies you have hit your body's limit and/or you are injured. You should address it with RICE and try to extend your limit but you shouldn't force your body beyond its limits (like hit parallel with squats, so many bodybuilders think they HAVE to hit parallel and end up with sciatica as a result).

Do you have any sources on that? Most retired bodybuilders I know of has a fine structural health. Besides, back pain is a common sign of age, how can you isolate squats as a factor? If your, as scoobys example going to squat 495 pounds as a newbie then yes you will experience some serious problems. But as you gradually increase weight, your body has been accustomed to both the weight and movement pattern. As you mention, there is no conclusive evidence to suggest that back compression leads to disk degenaration. Having a strong core is everything as it takes lessens the load on your back and helps to keep it stabilized.

Well if that is your goal and experience, isn't it a bit stupid to comment on the style of bodybuilding training? Besides what is the difference between lifting for health and lifting for mass, those are interchangable terms.

Dumbells exercises can isolate the chest better, but none is a long term substitute for each other. I wouldn't chose between any, I like to incoorporate both.

Of course you should avoid anything that gives pain, I haven't ever stated anything else. You shouldn't ever stop at parallel with squats as the difference in movement at that angle puts the most stress on knees. You should squat below parallel, and if you can't then slightly above.