Mage 5.4 Discussion

[Deleted]

Can't believe warlocks got a level 90 talent overhaul and mages didn't. (so far)

Overhaul? I didn't see an overhaul. All they do is packing 2 passives to an (as it shines) active ability with a cooldown and a duration(which doesn't appear right now).
So they got a huge nerf. Especially their run-while-cast talent is now nothing more than our Icy Flows (other stats but same idea). So why do you cry? They got nerfed. They are brought to our level.
As Kuni said above: "Fel Armor Reduces damage taken by 10%." They loose their dmgreduction. They are weak like us now. Its a day to celebrate not to cry.

[jtmzac]

Its a day to celebrate not to cry.

Despite some meh tier bonuses I think this is the overall mood for mages. Priests, boomkins and warlocks have all had their damage reductions nerfed and those warlock nerfs are so nice. KJC is still a lot better then ice floes but now hunters are the only ranged dps while moving class.

[Dreadii]

The set bonuses for frost do look interesting, the 2 set seems weak, but not as bad as 4 set for fire unless they nerf CM even more to force us to use inferno blast. Personally I hope they rework it

[Menphis]

I guess it wasn't just me who let out a big sigh after seeing the t16 set bonuses for fire spec.
The only reason I'm playing my mage (since I started WoW) is because I like playing fire.
But this set bonus for fire is seriously lame.

I wonder if this would make the other 2 specs superior,
because for fire, some people might just use a better itemized piece rather than t16.
While the other 2 specs take benefit from the tier set bonus.

And if Blizzard also adds a Critical Mass nerf to that,
well, I guess my mage would be at the bottom of my priority list for what toon I'll be playing.

[Deleted]

Wow, so many people whining.

It's pretty obvious that they are going to make some changes to fire, to make the 4p worth it to use.

The Arcane set bonuses are strong.
The Frost set bonuses are incredible and I'm looking forward to it. I'm not even sure they have to do anything to our scalings; get 54% haste (or w/e the cap is) and go balls deep on mastery. We'll be getting even more IL procs now and thus, Mastery will gain an increase in its weight.

[jtmzac]

The Frost set bonuses are incredible and I'm looking forward to it. I'm not even sure they have to do anything to our scalings; get 54% haste (or w/e the cap is) and go balls deep on mastery. We'll be getting even more IL procs now and thus, Mastery will gain an increase in its weight.

Considering both the set bonuses are triggered by BF which is from our bomb spell its unlikely that we'll do anything other then just stack haste which is our concern right now.

The 2 set is both good and bad so I would hardly call it incredible.

Set bonuses only cause gearing limitation so while I understand fire mages are unhappy because the 4 set is almost useless it does make gearing easier. I wish the current frost 4 set was worse so I could use the heroic gear I've got sitting in my bank.

[aycheff]

Liking the Arcane bonuses. Nothing fancy but looks nice. Hopefully they'll tinker with our lvl 90s as well

[Deleted]

Considering both the set bonuses are triggered by BF which is from our bomb spell its unlikely that we'll do anything other then just stack haste which is our concern right now.

The 2 set is both good and bad so I would hardly call it incredible.

Set bonuses only cause gearing limitation so while I understand fire mages are unhappy because the 4 set is almost useless it does make gearing easier. I wish the current frost 4 set was worse so I could use the heroic gear I've got sitting in my bank.

You're only getting more BF procs from NT by stacking haste. Even then, we don't even know if you need to blow all your IL before using your BF proc, since you can get 2 from it and the more haste, the more BF proc clipping. On top of that, I doubt that haste above the haste cap is going to be more valueable just for the sake of 2 spells (water ele & bomb), when mastery scales with 3 spells.

[Exoduz99]

-- Fire --
2-piece : each Pyro! increase Haste by 750 for 4s, stack 5 times (max : 3750 hastes) & ~1.76% haste per stack (max : ~8.82%).
4-piece : each Fireball and Pyro! have 10% chance to suppress IB cooldown for 6s.
use : the 2-piece bonus increase the haste for Pyro DoT's. the 4-piece give the possibility to chain cast IB for procing HS. When T16 proc, cast IB 2 time than pyro. If Pyro crit, cast another pyro. If not, cast IB 2 times, then another Pyro. Use Combustion, if possible to build 5 stacks. be sure to refresh the bomb before for the haste buff.
Why it's good : haste increase the DPS of Pyro's DOT and Combustion if used within the buff duration. The 2p give a better pyro's DOT and a longer Combustion. The 4p give a ways to chain cast Pyro for increasing the number of stack and Ignite's damage.

and reaction time? this one will probably conjure up his first fireball over. from the 6 seconds are not more than 3-4 left over, especially when bombs still happen

[Deleted]

I'm amazed that anyone have found how great the Fire bonus are !!!!!!!


-- Fire --
2-piece : each Pyro! increase Haste by 750 for 4s, stack 5 times (max : 3750 hastes) & ~1.76% haste per stack (max : ~8.82%).
4-piece : each Fireball and Pyro! have 10% chance to suppress IB cooldown for 6s.
use : the 2-piece bonus increase the haste for Pyro DoT's. the 4-piece give the possibility to chain cast IB for procing HS. When T16 proc, cast IB 2 time than pyro. If Pyro crit, cast another pyro. If not, cast IB 2 times, then another Pyro. Use Combustion, if possible to build 5 stacks. be sure to refresh the bomb before for the haste buff.
Why it's good : haste increase the DPS of Pyro's DOT and Combustion if used within the buff duration. The 2p give a better pyro's DOT and a longer Combustion. The 4p give a ways to chain cast Pyro for increasing the number of stack and Ignite's damage.


Conclusion :
The T16 feel great but depend on other possible changes.
Testing will be needed for telling more.

i have never seen so much shit in one post

Infracted. Please keep the discussion civil.

[zephid]

Wow, so many people whining.

It's pretty obvious that they are going to make some changes to fire, to make the 4p worth it to use.

They only way to make it worth getting would be if they buffed inferno blasts damage a lot (make inferno blast's dps closer to that of fireball), or nerfed fires critrate.

[Darkorz]

They only way to make it worth getting would be if they buffed inferno blasts damage a lot (make inferno blast's dps closer to that of fireball), or nerfed fires critrate.

This is what I think aswell.
By looking at it on paper, I can't see myself dropping my usual rotation as my combustions are kinda reliable at this point (45%ish crit raid buffed w/o CM) for some IB spam that, accounting GCDs and reaction time, etc, won't be that super improvement.

I'm really hoping either theory gets proven wrong or 4set is reworked, otherwise I can see myself running around with 2pc and 2 tf items

[Deleted]

@ralikonik watch your language, please!

Arcane 2p and 4p looks pretty sophisticated. Makes me want more.
Fire 2p is appropriate (I´m getting 11.53% haste @ 5 stacks btw) and 4p is a joke for decent geared fire mages. They will never ever use 4p with 18k+ crit rating. They will use offset or maybe stick to their T15 4p? Time will tell.
Frost 2p will want us to stack more haste 4p is pretty boring, a % damage increase to a random spell would be the same.

The Tier set bonuses for fire and frost looks underwhelming overall, while arcane`s looks pretty nice and interesting. We all speculated for a possible frost scaling fix and Blizzard answerd with a tier set bonus that even aggravate it.

*Edit* Frost 2p has a real problem, you have always to clear FoF stacks instant, because FFB can proc 2 FoF now. It will be interesting with 70 - 80% passive haste how this should work.

[Llyth]

I would just like to add that complaining here is not going to get us a better 4p for fire. I've tweeted and posted on the official forums and encourage all of you to do at least one of the two. BE CONSTRUCTIVE!

[Deleted]

@ralikonik watch your language, please!

Arcane 2p and 4p looks pretty sophisticated. Makes me want more.
Fire 2p is appropriate (I´m getting 11.53% haste @ 5 stacks btw) and 4p is a joke for decent geared fire mages. They will never ever use 4p with 18k+ crit rating. They will use offset or maybe stick to their T15 4p? Time will tell.
Frost 2p will want us to stack more haste 4p is pretty boring, a % damage increase to a random spell would be the same.

The Tier set bonuses for fire and frost looks underwhelming overall, while arcane`s looks pretty nice and interesting. We all speculated for a possible frost scaling fix and Blizzard answerd with a tier set bonus that even aggravate it.

*Edit* Frost 2p has a real problem, you have always to clear FoF stacks instant, because FFB can proc 2 FoF now. It will be interesting with 70 - 80% passive haste how this should work.

Which is the whole point. You don't want 70-80% passive haste; you want 54% or w/e the cap is and then put everything else into Mastery. There is no way in hell that Blizzard is going to put in a 2 set bonus, that would force you to keep going for haste to get the most out of it; while being under the GCD cap constantly. That's not fun.

[geomadden]

Fire 4pc is very, very weak. Blizzard doesn't seem to understand that we bank HU + HS and our reliance on Inferno Blast is lessening. At 546 ilvl I hardly even need it at all.

It needs a complete rework. Let's not let it go live like this.

we all dont have that boss of gear dude. For us casuals fire sucks. Lots of us rely on frost as the go to spec. Infernal blast is our bread and butter if we want fire. Looks nice to me

[Deleted]

Frost 2p will want us to stack more haste 4p is pretty boring, a % damage increase to a random spell would be the same.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=102199
It helps with a little splashdmg. For bosses like council it brings back frost a little bit. It all depends on the numbers. I dont think 20k is the final result but that will show us the ptr.

[Deleted]

Ok, So I see most of why have tell wasn't not comprehend.

1-- you can't only count 2p and 4p separately. it's the synergy between the 2 that make it good. I'm not a Fire expert but I can already say that is bonus will largely be better than what it can be seen.

2-- 5.4 mage have been show, for the moment. I'm pretty sure these bonus are made with them into account. Fire particularly.

3-- Yes, actually. The Fire's 4p don't feel so good because of CM in 5.3. I'm pretty sure that a lot of other and optimized will be made before release. And, I think that CM will be nerf too to make room from these bonus (like Frost FoF change in 5.3). I never tell it's a good idea.

4-- keep it cool, we're not warlock. We all know it's only the start of the PTR and that a lot of other will be made before release.

[mrgreenthump]

we all dont have that boss of gear dude. For us casuals fire sucks. Lots of us rely on frost as the go to spec. Infernal blast is our bread and butter if we want fire. Looks nice to me

Considering the normal ilevel of next tier seems to be 541, most people will be at 545+ if they are raiding in a raiding guild, and this is a raiding set bonus we are talking abt.

---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 01:12 PM ----------

Ok, So I see most of why have tell wasn't not comprehend.

3-- Yes, actually. The Fire's 4p don't feel so good because of CM in 5.3. I'm pretty sure that a lot of other and optimized will be made before release. And, I think that CM will be nerf too to make room from these bonus (like Frost FoF change in 5.3). I never tell it's a good idea.

Considering how fire plays atm, even at sub 50% crit rates I wouldnt see much use for this. Unless the proc also prevent from IB to go to cooldown when used, then it might be usable, but the tier bonus says no such thing.

Also the 2 set is really annoying if anything.. 4 second refresh timer. That means if we get a nerf to CM, that means we wouldn't use the tier at all.. cause you need to launch a Pyro <4 seconds each time. And ye that means we have 2 fireballs each time if we can get the cast to under 1.5 seconds with the buff, so the 2 set is really really RNG based, which is the last thing fire needs atm.

And the 2 set also encourages mages to do the HS+HU rotation to keep the haste going for longer period of times and to stack it. Which inturn makes the 4-set even more useless for those mages who wouldn't use HS+HU rotation otherwise.

[zephid]

Considering the normal ilevel of next tier seems to be 541, most people will be at 545+ if they are raiding in a raiding guild, and this is a raiding set bonus we are talking abt.

The t16 4p bonus would be useless even when running with ilvl535.