Why is getting in a raid team near impossible atm?

[Outofmana]

Side effect of content being released faster, back in the day you would farm for 6/9 months so gear didn't matter.

[Vanisari]

It's always hard to get into a good guild mid- to late expansion if you are behind in gear since they want people who will actually useful to them on progression raids, which you won't be with an item lvl that low.

This is most likely the problem. Guilds that are looking for a new members for progression don't want to pick someone up that is ~25 ilvls behind.

[hammypants]

Hi, I do recruiting for an 11/13 hm guild, so maybe I can give you some insight.

First of all, I'm going to cover some points on your OP, as well as those mentioned by others in the thread. Keep in mind that my guild actually has an application process, not just a "hey yo, can I join you're guild?" If you're getting laughed at strictly because of ilvl, that guild is probably awful and not a cultural fit for you anyway. Being ilvl 505 alerts me to several possibilities: the toon is an alt and you're main swapping, you've quit and recently come back to the game, or you're not putting in the effort you should be putting into your character. If you're an alt, we'd want to see your main, and why you're main switching. Historically speaking, we hate main switchers mid-tier, and we almost never allow it-- it starts a chain reaction of people wanting to main switch, usually hating it, and wanting to switch back. Wasted time, wasted loot. If you've quit and recently come back, unless it was an extended break for a very good reason, this is probably going to hurt you. Turnover for guilds right now is ridiculous, and we can't afford someone who may just up and leave at the drop of the hat. As for the last of those three reasons, I'm sure you can imagine why we'd think negatively on it.

That being said, our application process does not put any emphasis on ilvl-- only our current progression status goes. We don't expect to be getting recruits from similarly progressed guilds; consequently, don't expect those recruits to be the same as us in terms of gear. However, 505 would be immensely too far behind for us. I can imagine if we were lower progressed, say, 1-3/13 heroic, a "normal mode guild" or something similar, we would expect to recruit from an ilvl pool of at least 515. Some of the more time-granted members have alts with that level, who do not run normals. Easily doable for a main character since the start of the tier. Any guild probably expects some catch-up time... but that catch up can't last for the remainder of the tier, unless you're already farming whatever your goal was.

What we DO at is experience, effort, and motivation. The biggest thing is someone who knows their character, what they should be doing, reading up on the fights, works on adjusting, etc-- that mindset is way more valuable than gear. As a guild officer, if you have that mindset, and demonstrate an ability and eagerness to improve, I would give you a trial. I would gear any great player, who doesn't have gear, but who was reliable and skilled over any geared player who has a record of hopping or general disregard for the other 9/24 members of the raid.

It's about being able to communicate that you're worth the effort.
But you should also keep guild culture in mind... some guilds aren't worth YOUR effort.

[Deleted]

You should be able to hit 515-520 ilevel pretty easily by getting crafted gear/valor gear in addition to LFR stuff, so keep working on that.

Crafted gear is not worth its costs.

[Fevyz]

I'm in a 13/13 HC guild and we accept a ton of 505-515 ilvl geared players aslong as they have a good history and can prove their skill with logs. It's not a hard concept, but without logs you won't get anywhere, trust me.

[Adp]

If you haven't already killed the bosses that the guild you want to join wants to kill, what exactly do you think you can contribute?

If you're not doing better DPS than the people in the guild you want to join, what exactly do you think you can contribute?

If you're not better geared than the people in the guild you want to join, what exactly do you think you can contribute?

If you're not better, period, than the people in the guild you are hoping to join, why would they want you?

If the problem the guild you want to join has is anything other than "we can't find more than 9 of us under any circumstances for our 10-man raid" then if you aren't better in all respects than the people in that group you can just forget it.

That's pretty much how it goes.

-Neither have they, why would they expect that

-Better Raid Awareness, cooldown usage, on boss dps time, etc

-Gear is tied to dps so see above^

-How would they know if he is better or not without a tryout?

[blackblade]

If your server isn't a graveyard, you should be pugging into some normals to get that ilvl up instead of waiting for LFR gear to never drop.

If your sever is a graveyard, then you're slightly screwed. I'd still try and get into a reg/heroic TOES pug via open raid to try and fill any slots that are drastically bringing your ilvl down.

Open raid is also a good place to scout out guilds who might be recruiting.

[purefury]

505 is too low to join guild progressing on normal ToT.
you should have +-8weeks farm done by now to think you are going to raid normals, that should give you few 516 items, 522vp items, some crafted item, drop or two from nalak/oondasta, that should be over 510ilvl.

now if you join normal guild, you will have lowest hp, lowest dps(if that guild killed megaera/horridon), and lowest experience. if you want to join, work on your application, fraps your performance, post your logs for entire lfr, convince them you will be reliable raider and stay after you grab loots

[HarleyM]

I would like to echo the willingness as a 13/13h to recruit players around 505 ilvl, but I also need to emphasize that it is far from an eagerness. When recruiting a player, the primary consideration is whether or not they can help us with progression - at 13/13, that means future tiers - and a lot of factors come into play.

First I will address gear. Recruiting someone at 505 today means they will probably still be slightly behind going into next tier, though nobody knows for sure how long it will be until that tier comes out. The first week we will fully clear normals, possibly with multiple groups (or part of it with multiple groups). The second week we will start heroic progression. The player needs to be at a point where (s)he can compete both mechanically and on damage with whoever they are replacing. This typically means the player needs to be not just better, but significantly better, as they will probably be playing with worse gear. Some people will say "then give them the gear if they are better!" If they aren't going to be in, unfortunately this doesn't make sense. It is a bit of a gamble all tier for anyone who isn't finishing in 1 week. You need to balance where you are right now with where you will be for the end boss. So if Player B might be replacing Player A you compare two things - if you gave each of them XYZ gear, how much damage would they be doing at the point you will need them most. If Player B is doing 200k and Player A is doing 205k on the end boss, I don't care if Player B is 30 ilvls lower, Player A is still doing more damage. The next tier we would expect to bring Player B over Player A, but that won't help us get the kill we need today. There isn't really much you can do to affect this, other than by improving your own skill.

Next I will address longevity. You were casual due to work in Cata, and took a break during MoP. Why won't you need to be casual in SoO or the next expansion due to work? Are you between jobs? Do you have a stable job now that you enjoy? That you can't get fired from? Why did you take a break? Were you sick of the game? Were you too far behind? Had your friends quit? Were you in a serious relationship? These things matter. If a guild is going to take a player on, especially a project, they want to see that they will get a return on their investment. Someone who was an old player and recently came back to the game can be a great addition, but often whatever made them quit the first time will drive them away again, sooner rather than later.

Next, commitment. Do you feel like you should be playing in Blood Legion, if you only had the chance and the gear? Put another way, are we where you want to be, or how you want to get to where you want to be? A guild might be willing to take on a strong, geared player in the middle of progression that has higher aspirations, because it is a win-win. They fill a temporary gap in the roster, help you get kills, and you help them establish their credibility as a player as they aspire to higher things. With a player at 505, especially during farm, these benefits don't exist. Convince the guild that you want to raid with them, and that you would be happy raiding with them for the long term. Ask guilds if they run any alt runs, and tell them that you would like to join if they ever need to fill a space - that you will perform well, despite your lower ilvl, and that you will pass any gear they need. It shows you are confident enough in your skills that you will get invited back on your ability, and that you aren't loot-centric.

Next, the application and preparation. Come across as someone they want in their guild. For most guilds, this means have a head on your shoulders and be able to keep your cool. Humor typically doesn't hurt. Spell out that you have done the work on your character - emphasizing that you have been back for 25 days and run a heroic scenario on each and every one of them, and have so far managed to get 6 516 pieces. That you have been back for those 4 lockouts, and have 4 LFR kills on each and every ToT boss. That you either (A) have the first stage of the legendary quest complete, or (B) also have 4 LFR kills on each of the first 16 bosses. Show that you have the best gems and enchants on your gear, and maxed non-gathering professions. That you have bought the crafted pieces. That you have been killing Nalak and Oondasta. That you have coins to use for bonus rolls. That you have studied every single boss on heroic difficulty, and that when they ask you about specific mechanics, you are able to understand and explain them, as well as how to react. Watch their kill videos - know THEIR strategies. Show that you have the gold to buy 300 food, if they so require it.


Is this a lot? Of course it is. And depending on the guild more or less of this will be required. But remember, if they are taking you that means they are sitting someone else. Give us a reason to sit another trial, a raider who needs a piece of loot, a buyer who will pay to be in, or even a raider who thinks it would be cool to gear an alt - why should we gear you instead of making a raider happy and letting their alt soak up some gear, or instead of padding the guild coffers? The more you can do to distinguish yourself from every other player who is 505 and thinks it would be kinda cool to do some heroic raids the better.

---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 03:01 PM ----------

I will throw out that 505 is plenty to clear the entirety of ToT normal, with the right level of skill. Typically the guilds stuck on ToT normal at this point, though, lack that skill. Offering to come in for a night and not take any gear for a week may be even more effective with these groups.

[Psykewne]

This is a video my guild leader made about Flex Raiding and how she thinks it might help out raiders quite a bit who still want to enjoy the game but are finding various problems in their way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1QD-...GrS9zlH44YOxyA

[Normie]

-Neither have they, why would they expect that

-Better Raid Awareness, cooldown usage, on boss dps time, etc

-Gear is tied to dps so see above^

-How would they know if he is better or not without a tryout?

Why would you try someone out if he doesn't have gear, doesn't have skill, doesn't have attitude, et cetera.

[Deleted]

Why would you try someone out if he doesn't have gear, doesn't have skill, doesn't have attitude, et cetera.

Did u even read the OP post?

He DOES have experience, very good experience... the ONLY reason he is having his apps refused is his ilvl.

Why ru even discussing these other things when they are nothing to do with the thread?

[FluFF]

I feel your pain bro , raided extensively in Wrath and Cata, guild broke up at MoP , been out between December and May and it's impossible to get into anywhere.

Achievements and green coloured bars from past raids on your armory page don't help one bit with applying , it's all about having ilvl 515+ or not ( and I'm not even talking about 8/13hc guilds , even like normal guilds have stupid requirements based solely on ilvl )

checked like the main 3 realm forums in EU for Alliance since my current realm is dead anyway and I don't see any guild willing to go with experience over ilvl , i'm contemplating more about actually unsubbing then I am about forking out for a realm transfer.

[Wulfdare]

So to summarise you have a better chance finding a job in Greece than getting into a guild in a VIDEO GAME...it'd be funny if people didn't take this shit more seriously than RL work.

[Krolikn]

Outdpsing people in heroics/scenarios/LFR doesn't mean too much TBH. You clearly have something to prove, to yourself and others, so you are desperately trying your hardest. That doesn't mean everyone else puts as much effort into easy content.

[Subetei]

There's a practical element to this... in 10 mans it took me 9 weeks to get my tier legs. Longer to get an offhand to use with my thunderforged weapon. Even if you were good they'd have to carry you a while so that means no HM and no alts pretty much. My alt that i never raid with is 518... also you will be much later getting legendary cloak etc... and notably world of warcraft has kind of always been this way. This is not new.

[corebit]

Most raiding guilds nowadays just want to snipe members from other existing raiding guilds instead of putting real effort to teach and to gear new or undergeared people.

The problem is, the existing pool of raid-ready members to snipe from is getting smaller and smaller.

More people are getting disillusioned and tired of the whole raider elitist attitude. LFR offers a quick and easy way to experience content and get gear. Why should players bother now with the attitude and laundry list of requirements from self-important guilds?

[melodramocracy]

Just post logs if they are laughing at your ilvl, prove them wrong. It's pointless to say oh I have a bad ilvl but than expect for people to give you a chance, you got to prove to them that you deserve that spot.

It will put a smile on my face when it gets to the point that guilds have to prove to players that they deserve them in their ranks Probably a few more patches to go.

[Deleted]

1. Go LFR and log your fights. Try to do the fights right (like on Horridon you have to do the adds)
2. Have a good ui and good keybindings (you will have to send them in on your application)
3. Search on wowprogress for a suitable guild - most guilds on there don't care about the ilvl
4. Understand that there are a lot of no-geared players looking for guilds and it's not fun for a guild to gear every applicant. So maybe understand why guilds are demanding a certain ilvl. It doesn't matter that you out-dps someone in LFG/LFR or scenarios - if you apply to a guild where everyone is ilvl 530+ you won't out-dps anyone. Also you have to learn a lot of new mechanics for hc content.
5. Relaxe and try a more casual friendly guild. Wait for 5.4 and join some flex raids.
6. Don't make yourself the victim. Everyone who is serious about finding a guild to raid with and is not a complete jerk will find one.

[namelessone]

I raided hardcore in Vanilla up until WOTLK. Was casual during Cata due to work, and took a break in MoP.

Work schedule is now stable again and would like to raid hardcore again, yet I am getting blocked by bad RNG in the LFR, and it is taking forever to do grind these 40 reps (exaggeration, I know.)

All guilds expect 520+ ilvl, are they mad?

I am 505 atm, and I am outdpsing people with 520 in heroics/scenarios/LFR, why don't guilds accept me just because of the ilvl, what happened to skill?

i honestly feel like unsubbing, I fill out applications very seriously and am very thorough, just to get literally insulted and laughed at in the comments section of my app by guild officers because of my ilvl.

What has happened to WoW?

Did you know raiders are complaining how they can't fill guilds and can't get enough people to raid? Yes, the same raiders that turn you off, complain about lack of new blood. It's totally a fault of LFR.