Not according to Tides of War. He's still trying to earn their respect and shower them with the spoils through the Theramore campaign.
They were loved and respected by their people, and both did have true loyalty to the Horde, if not to Garrosh individually. Soon, they would come to heel and acknowledge that his tactics had been beyond brilliant—indeed, that he had achieved more for the Horde than any leader, including the adored Thrall, had ever done.
Then they would honor him as well as the Horde, and he would show his magnanimity to them as he had with Captain Briln. Garrosh permitted a pleased, rather smug smile to curve his lips.
--Tides of War
I agree with you on a lot, especially the last point, but you have to remember something about Garrosh and his perception of 'honour'.
Simply put, if you work for or are of use to Garrosh, you are honourable. He ignored anything bad that those working under him might have done, and sweeps it under the rug, claiming it to be for honour or for the Horde. This explains Dark Shaman and Y'Shaarj, which seem to contradict his opinions on Warlocks and Fel.
Warlocks who worked under Thrall and before are weak. They are slaves to the demons, and are part of the reason why the Horde lost in the first war. Similar to Fel/Demon Blood, it was a way for the weak to become stronger. They brought dishonour to the Horde, ONLY because they lost.
With Garrosh, his Dark Shaman and the Heart of Y'Shaarj is acceptable because, hell, he approved of them, and he see's the results as good. The Dark Shaman, despite essentially being Warlocks, are a people strong enough to force the elements themselves to do their bidding. The Heart of Y'Shaarj and the Sha , in Garrosh's eyes, are something that only the weak fall victim to. The strong, those in his True Horde, are able to conquer it, thus, they are acceptable.
EDIT: To drive this home, read Siegemaster Blackfuse's dungeon journal. He is the only Goblin that is good enough for Garrosh. So Garrosh, someone who says the Orcs are the only race worthy of living on Azeroth, eats his own words by letting Blackfuse live, and only does so because he is a good engineer.
Also, Stonetalon much like I always assumed, has been confirmed to be a charade by Garrosh. I always guessed he killed Krom'Gar simply because the Tauren would find out about the village that also got wiped out. He killed two birds with one stone, the Druid school is gone, and he gets praise for punishing the one behind it. But anyways, Kosak said in his interview with Jesse Cox that Stonetalon wasn't a change of heart for Garrosh. As he put it 'Krom'Gar wasted a mana bomb!'
In "The Shattering" he is already on his ego trip when he returns from Northrend and everyone and their granny greets him like he is fucking Cesar. Funny considering he is supposed to have earned many victories, yet the only time he is involved at all was acting like a rabid animal on 2 occasions and he was neither involved in the Ashen Verdict nor the Ulduar Expedition. Anyway, in "Tides of War" he is already Hitler ... so somehwere in between. Probably somehwere during Cata, most likely after the one Saurfang cameo (sic?) where he quotes Saurfang. In Twilight Highlands he was already a warmongering idiot devoid of any leadership qualities, yet still seemed to care about all of the horde ... somewhat. So he went apeshit some time during cata, but because he didn't do much during cata at all it is hard to guess when exactly.
Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2013-08-29 at 07:21 PM.
The evolution (or devolution) of Garrosh's honor and pride is pretty much a straight line (save a couple of quests in Cata like the cited Stonetalon one) since TBC. I think the disconnect from a lot of people comes from the Garrosh shown at the start of MoP which is a couple of steps along the road than we last seen him in Cataclysm. As for the racism thing I just took that as a growing mistrust of those around him; I imagine Garrosh unchecked would be much like one of those rulers surrounded by sycophants and yes-men.
He is the Overlord that led the whole Horde armies against the Scourge, he was involved plenty
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you can even site more recently, from 5.1
"I will stop at nothing.....nothing.......to ensure a proud and glrrious future for the orcs, and anyone who has the courage to stand with us'
We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"
there were also plenty within the Shattering and Heart of War
If Garrosh was oh so terrible from the onset him becoming Warchief wouldnt have even been possible
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I think that can be explained that Mezten said they didnt initially plan to pull this storyline till the x-pac after MoP, which would have given them more and time
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You honestly believe that his advisor could pull strategic/tacitcal decisions for the Horde armies all out of eye-sight from their Overlord?
For something people always claim its cited absolutly nowhere, yet Garrosh being hailed as a hero for his success in Northrend is read everywhere in excerts concerning Hellscream
We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"
He led the western horde armies, because the eastern part, mostly consisting of forsaken, didn't even mention him once. The only thing he achieved was a crushing defeat at both the wrathgate and icecrown itself where he ground his armies to dust on one of the many gates there. But don't get my wrong, I love how he was retconned by blizzard with them saying he achieved many victories and lead the horde to success, without mentioning even a single one of course.
Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2013-08-29 at 07:34 PM.
Yes... wasted a "mana bomb" on civilian targets. Garrosh wouldn't use one against civilian targets.
You are taking this statement too seriously and out of context. Kosak then goes on to describe Garrosh's progression as a line and not a "right turn". So nothing about Kosak's statements suggest any inconsistency.Originally Posted by Dave Kosak
Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-29 at 07:41 PM.
Yeah as much as I dislike the character, people need to learn to grasp when someone is making a joke in these interviews and do not take the transcript litterally. Dave Kosak seems very well aware that the character is not exactly consistent and knows they tried to make it better than he seemed with the quoting of Saurfang, the wasting of a mana bomb was just him being silly, because I doubt he could outright say : "Yeah we tried to make him a badass, but kinda forgot to keep going at it after this one time".
Edit: I learned that when doing an interview and publishing it in a written format you should hint at things when they were sarcastic or said in a jokingly manner, because these obviously don't translate well into letters. MMO-C should maybe adopt this practice, considering how most blizzard interviews are about them making silly remarks to disguise the fact that they simply can't talk about stuff.
Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2013-08-29 at 07:44 PM.
But the question mentions Stonetalon, and the perceived honour people saw in it because of Garrosh punishing Krom'Gar. Everyone likes to think Garrosh killed Krom'Gar because he bombed the school and killed the Tauren, thus he was punishing him for this act of violence. Kosak simply replies saying the guy wasted a mana bomb, while laughing.
It is a statement to take seriously, because it is a Dev addressing the one point in Garrosh's history that he did something good, and replying with a joke on how Garrosh's reasons for doing so aren't what people think.
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So you guys are saying that Kosak wasn't implying, 'Oh yeah, Garrosh had his own reasons for Stonetalon', but 'Oh yeah, we fucked up his characterization lol'
Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-29 at 07:49 PM.
We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"
I heard he had his boy parts were cut off by a gang of Alliance. So he's kinda pissed.
Would you like to explain this further?
He's an ORC. Orcs are a blood crazed violent race. This is exactly what Garrosh is and is what the Horde needs. Obviously he's fucked in the head but he's and orc. Garrosh is just being real and staying with his roots. Fuckin game is a soap opera now.