Ele Breakpoints

[zimboombafoo]

I know that it's mastery > haste > crit and I have about 80something% mastery at the moment. Is there a certain amount of mastery or haste that you should stop at? Thanks

[Sock]

The concept of a standard Ele breakpoint is a common misconception, and is just that -- incorrect.

Stat priority is not mastery > haste > crit, but is instead something more like mastery = haste > crit. There is no magical standard number for everyone in which mastery starts to be better than haste, or haste starts to be better than mastery. Based upon your gear, gems, enchants, and even your reforging, the point at which one stat becomes better than the other will vary wildly.

You're honestly better off just simming your character and checking the stat values in the results to see which would be better for you. It's very likely that you're sacrificing too much haste in favor of mastery, and it's hurting your DPS. What the top shamans do is not always something you should do.

[Deleted]

Just backing up on Sock's words. One thing to do: Sim yourself.

Without knowing your ilevel, i'll bet your sim says Haste>mastery>Crit at the moment. Stop trusting AskMrRobot

[Deleted]

Its a matter of playstyle some like heavy mast builds some like haste, and ofc dps output. Again as the other replys says, simulationcaft is your Best choice for finding out.
I personally like haste build, even if my sim says haste=mastery

[zimboombafoo]

i've tried to run simcraft before and failed. i am totally clueless to it

[Sock]

i've tried to run simcraft before and failed. i am totally clueless to it

Link your armory profile and I'll run it for you after my current one is done. However, so you can do it for yourself later on whenever you may need it:

1. Go to import, search for your character, load up their profile, then click the Import button.
2. Under Options, do the following.
-Globals: Iterations at 10000, Length at 600, Vary Length at 20%. Change the fight style to whatever you want.
-Buffs: Check all, you would ideally have them all anyways.
-Scaling: Only check off Intellect, crit, haste, and mastery. Leave all other spots blank.
-Skip Plots, make sure everything in there is unchecked.
-Reforge Plots: Reforge Amount to 5000, Step Amount to 500. Only check haste and mastery.
3. Click the Simulate tab and make sure your imported character profile is the selected sub-tab.
4. Click Simulate. It will take a while to complete, as a reforge plots can take a bit of time to compute (it will finish in about 10-20 minutes)

[zimboombafoo]

Link your armory profile and I'll run it for you after my current one is done. However, so you can do it for yourself later on whenever you may need it:

1. Go to import, search for your character, load up their profile, then click the Import button.
2. Under Options, do the following.
-Globals: Iterations at 10000, Length at 600, Vary Length at 20%. Change the fight style to whatever you want.
-Buffs: Check all, you would ideally have them all anyways.
-Scaling: Only check off Intellect, crit, haste, and mastery. Leave all other spots blank.
-Skip Plots, make sure everything in there is unchecked.
-Reforge Plots: Reforge Amount to 5000, Step Amount to 500. Only check haste and mastery.
3. Click the Simulate tab and make sure your imported character profile is the selected sub-tab.
4. Click Simulate. It will take a while to complete, as a reforge plots can take a bit of time to compute (it will finish in about 10-20 minutes)

wow thank you that's very kind. it is:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Teepeez/simple

[Sock]

wow thank you that's very kind. it is:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Teepeez/simple

Just looking at your armory profile, your haste seems very low. However, I'll still run a sim on heavy movement (since that's most of the heroic fights anyways) and see what stat values it gives.

[zimboombafoo]

Just looking at your armory profile, your haste seems very low. However, I'll still run a sim on heavy movement (since that's most of the heroic fights anyways) and see what stat values it gives.

ya i have a mastery build...

[Sock]

ya i have a mastery build...

I'm aware, and yet it seems like you've sacrificed far too much for it. As a comparison to you, we're both at roughly the same item level (you're two item levels higher than me), but with me gearing for a haste build, I actually have almost 2k more spellpower and 13% more haste, with only 7% less mastery.

The sim should be done shortly, and then I'll post again with the results and any possible recommendations.

- - - Updated - - -

Simulation is done, and the results are largely what I expected.




You have geared so heavily for mastery that it's actually bringing your DPS down, and looking at the reforge plot is very telling -- when the haste --> mastery side is universally negative and the mastery --> haste side is universally positive, you've neglected one far too much over the other.. Haste has both the higher stat value and also gives a DPS increase by reforging to it in almost every situation.

Start swapping mastery for haste, and you'll likely see a DPS increase. And just start using orange gems instead of yellows, they're almost always better at these levels of gear.

[zimboombafoo]

thank you so much for your help, i greatly appreciate it. so should i do a complete 360 and instead of reforging everything into mastery as i have been...to reforge everything into haste and gem for haste as well? is there a haste breakpoint where is should stop?

also: would you be able to give your armory link just so i can see your gear lay out?

[QuiksLE]

Seems like you have been fairly unluckly with the gear drops. Those crit+spirit items are not performing nearly as good as haste/mastery +another secondary gear
I myself have 74.70% mastery and 33.86% haste
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...t/Quiks/simple

[Franklyn]

keep in mind that the sim results above are most likely for single target

so, if you were to reforge 5k mastery into haste, you'd gain 1.4% dps. but the loss to your CL cleave/aoe would be huge in comparison.

- - - Updated - - -

Seems like you have been fairly unluckly with the gear drops. Those crit+spirit items are not performing nearly as good as haste/mastery +another secondary gear
I myself have 74.70% mastery and 33.86% haste
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...t/Quiks/simple

most of that is amp trinket

[BlissfulBlithe]

I usually go by Mastery >= (greater than or equal to) Haste > Critical Strike as Mastery usually wins on most of the fights because of the adds. Haste is equal (if not better) than Mastery when there's constantly two targets you can keep your Flame Shock on (Dark Shaman/Paragons).

My Mastery is usually divisible by a quarter fraction of 100%, and then I dump the rest into Haste but that's just me.

[Sock]

thank you so much for your help, i greatly appreciate it. so should i do a complete 360 and instead of reforging everything into mastery as i have been...to reforge everything into haste and gem for haste as well? is there a haste breakpoint where is should stop?

also: would you be able to give your armory link just so i can see your gear lay out?

There is no haste "breakpoint", but instead a softcap, at about 36%. At this point, having both heroism/bloodlust/timewarp and the legendary meta active would drop your cast time below 1 second. Your latency will largely prevent you from being GCD-locked (unless it's very low latency). At this point, you can definitely start going into mastery instead of haste.

Here's my profile if you want to compare. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...akuta/advanced

keep in mind that the sim results above are most likely for single target

so, if you were to reforge 5k mastery into haste, you'd gain 1.4% dps. but the loss to your CL cleave/aoe would be huge in comparison.

Incorrect. In many situations, a haste build will perform as well, if not better, than a mastery build on a cleave/AOE fight. The only time a mastery build would ever outperform is if burst is needed.

[lcbagna]

Sorry but I still need help to read the results Sock just posted... about the Reforge Scaling diagram, at 0 (247711 dps line) are there the actual gear stats? So if he would drop another 5k haste for 5k mastery the result would drop to 239145 dps, while dropping 5k mastery for haste the dps would go up to 251139? Is that the correct way to read it?

And could someone kindly simulate my toon? I'm afraid that i will get almost same results as him since i'm actually at 81% mastery and 30,5% haste

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../CHICOS/simple

Thanks

[QuiksLE]

most of that is amp trinket

Amp trinket?

[Deleted]

Amp trinket?

Purified Bindings

[QuiksLE]

Purified Bindings

He does not have one

[Sock]

Sorry but I still need help to read the results Sock just posted... about the Reforge Scaling diagram, at 0 (247711 dps line) are there the actual gear stats? So if he would drop another 5k haste for 5k mastery the result would drop to 239145 dps, while dropping 5k mastery for haste the dps would go up to 251139? Is that the correct way to read it?

And could someone kindly simulate my toon? I'm afraid that i will get almost same results as him since i'm actually at 81% mastery and 30,5% haste

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../CHICOS/simple

Thanks

Yes, you read it correctly. On a reforge plot, the 0 marker is where you currently are. Left is the results of shifting haste into mastery, right is the results of shifting mastery into haste.

I actually doubt your results will be the same, as your stats seem much better balanced than the OP's. Perhaps a bit more haste, but nothing major. I'll run the sims and post the results later.

He does not have one

Owning the heroic version myself (which is a 9% boost when upgraded), the stat increase is noticeable, but not something so outrageous that you're completely gimped and worthless without it. The amp trinket does not add a flat 9% boost, but instead, takes the actual stat ratings and increases them by 9%. 10000 mastery rating (an even number, picked just for simplicity) would become 10900 mastery, and so on.