I didn't lump them together. Let me remind you how this started:
and the response was:
But as you point out:
And that's exactly what I've been saying all along.
How do you know they've been sitting in 30 minute queues? Tanks and healers often get insta-queues so that statement doesn't even apply to the people who matter most. Even if they had to wait 30 minutes how do you know they spent all that time just sitting in a city in the queue. As a player with limited time much of my LFR queue time is spent in dungeons, in scenarios, and/or running dailies for supplemental valor. Just because you choose to park your character in a city and troll trade chat or check auctions does not mean everyone else just "sits" in queue.
And that's why you will never bring them into raids. Since Blizzard chose to exclusively focus on raids for MoP they had to give these people something to do, and that's where LFR comes in. The whole point is that in LFR they
don't have to put in the time to get familiar with the boss. Blizzard stated as much in their
Raid Finder Q&A:
Those who persist in believing that LFR was supposed to be starter content for raiders will continue to be disappointed.
This happens with Static Shock in the Lei Shen fight too. I find it frustrating and will always whisper, "and that's why you stack for Static Shock/Inferno Strike."