Warrior 100 Talents changed.

[Deleted]

Expecting Ignite Weapon to scale with some kind of hidden AP buff, incorrectly applying more damage than it should do. Or better yet... Somehow bug with this Readiness thing and have no CD, be spammable and actually apply more than once, thus doubling/tripling auto-attack damage.

Oh I just know they're gonna cock it up somehow, they always do

[Terahertz]

Interesting indeed. Ignite Weapon seems like it could be crazy good in PvP, keeping in mind fire attacks would ignore armor and also presumably go through BoP. Granted, that's assuming that auto attacks do a reasonable amount of damage.

As for the Bladestorm/Storm Bolt change, not really surprised to be honest. I probably would have swapped Bloodbath with Dragon's Roar as well, because I think Bladestorm/Bloodbath is something that should exist. But I suppose it's not really important.

I am pretty interested to see what else comes from the videos that got released though.

Knowing what kind of a horror fighting a shockwave/storm bolt warrior is in PvP, not only will the change help immensely balance-wise, but it will also make fighting a warrior interesting again >_>

As for Ignite Weapon, I reckon it'll be more or less used every 15(?) seconds in order to keep up the debuff. I don't really think it will do much damage on its own considering it's Heroic Strike, but ignores armor.

[Fatalfuror]

Would be better if Storm Bolt went baseline. I still don't think it belongs in a tier with Shockwave and Dragon Roar, which are both AoEs.

Bladestorm doesn't belong in a tier with two CDs that buff the character, either.

I thought the whole new talent system was predicated on interesting choices? At this rate, you're going to forget Shockwave and Dragon Roar even exist on most fights, and Bladestorm will be taken every single time on anything with more than a couple adds (which seems to be 80%+ of bosses these days). That's not interesting.

Make Storm Bolt baseline, put Bladestorm back where it belongs in with Shockwave/Dragon Roar.

In place of Storm Bolt, give us our old Deadly Calm back (not the MoP one that was a terrible illusion of its former self, but the Cata version). Do something with it to have it scale with a stat that we aren't particularly good with in addition to making everything rage-free for X seconds.

Warriors needn't be horrible abominations in terms of talents. And players shouldn't be having to hit the sims to figure out every tier, either. Most of it should be flavor.. not huge differences like single vs. AoE.

[Crisius]

As for Ignite Weapon, I reckon it'll be more or less used every 15(?) seconds in order to keep up the debuff. I don't really think it will do much damage on its own considering it's Heroic Strike, but ignores armor.

Incorrect, ignite weapon will be used to dump all rage that isn't used on raging blow. It does more damage than wild strike outside of colossus smash.

Also, with the high probability that haste will have a slightly higher value, resulting in higher rage-gain, we'll probably end up spamming it every couple of seconds really.

[Deleted]

Not sure if already been posted but for arms fans:

'Overpower is still in for our current build. That PR build was taken while we were in the middle of toying with Arms' rotation.'
Tweeted by Celestalon

Makes me happy, I like overpower but at the same time a log of turd is better then the current arms rotation, and as a fan of arms I am glad they are working on it to hopefully breath some life into a very dull rotation.

Lovely news

[CollisionTD]

After a bit of thought, I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard is going to revamp where rage comes from dramatically.

Looking at anger management and ignite weapon, they are both talents that have the possibility of increasing the value of haste rather significantly if rage became a scarce resource all of a sudden. A few points:

1: Removal of glancing blows is a 15-20% autoattack damage boost. +haste value
2: Anger management seems really overpowered right now because we have so much rage. What if rage granted from non-autoattacks was significantly cut? I'm thinking enrage procs no longer grant rage. This would slightly decrease the value of crit, and increase the value of haste as it leads to more cooldown reduction that isn't so heavily in the diminished returns category. Probably need to increase the amount of rage required for 1 second of reduction as well.
3: Ignite Weapon is a straight up autoattack damage boost, +haste.
4: What if ravager also scaled with haste?
5: To top it off, they could also allow deep wounds to scale with haste.

With all these changes in place, haste might even eclipse mastery at lower crit levels.

Removal of 2PT16 + Rage from Enrage would drop our rage per second from 12~ to around 7.5~, which places storm bolt right at 20 seconds. If Blizzard increased the amount of rage required for 1 second of cooldown reduction, to say, 25 per second of reduction...



Our 7.5 rage per second isn't quite enough to get storm bolt down to 20 seconds. This is kind of an abusive way to make haste a better stat, but it would work.

These changes would boost haste to a point where it's competitive, leave the fury playstyle in place, and also leave crit as the dominant stat.

- - - Updated - - -

Incorrect, ignite weapon will be used to dump all rage that isn't used on raging blow. It does more damage than wild strike outside of colossus smash.

Also, with the high probability that haste will have a slightly higher value, resulting in higher rage-gain, we'll probably end up spamming it every couple of seconds really.

60-70% of our rage income is spent on heroic strike now, there's plenty of rage in the tank to keep 100% ignite weapon uptime.

(Wild strike is skewed due to bloodsurge procs)

[Oliria]

After a bit of thought, I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard is going to revamp where rage comes from dramatically.

Looking at anger management and ignite weapon, they are both talents that have the possibility of increasing the value of haste rather significantly if haste became a scarce resource all of a sudden. A few points:

1: Removal of glancing blows is a 15-20% autoattack damage boost. +haste value
2: Anger management seems really overpowered right now because we have so much rage. What if rage granted from non-autoattacks was significantly cut? I'm thinking enrage procs no longer grant rage. This would slightly decrease the value of crit, and increase the value of haste as it leads to more cooldown reduction that isn't so heavily in the diminished returns category. Probably need to increase the amount of rage required for 1 second of reduction as well.
3: Ignite Weapon is a straight up autoattack damage boost, +haste.
4: What if ravager also scaled with haste?
5: To top it off, they could also allow deep wounds to scale with haste.

With all these changes in place, haste might even eclipse mastery at lower crit levels.

Removal of 2PT16 + Rage from Enrage would drop our rage per second from 12~ to around 7.5~, which places storm bolt right at 20 seconds. If Blizzard increased the amount of rage required for 1 second of cooldown reduction, to say, 25 per second of reduction...



Our 7.5 rage per second isn't quite enough to get storm bolt down to 20 seconds. This is kind of an abusive way to make haste a better stat, but it would work.

These changes would boost haste to a point where it's competitive, leave the fury playstyle in place, and also leave crit as the dominant stat.

- - - Updated - - -





60-70% of our rage income is spent on heroic strike now, there's plenty of rage in the tank to keep 100% ignite weapon uptime.

(Wild strike is skewed due to bloodsurge procs)

Very good thinking Col. My concern is balancing rage gain though, if more of our rage comes from haste wouldn't we end in a situation were rage is very scarce early on, and then end of tier we get an abundance of rage due to haste? Basicly reverting the changes they made to avoid gear inflating rage gain massively. Maybe it is a matter of balancing?

[Deleted]

As long as it's not like Wrath where we struggled to go below 80 rage... No more HS spam pls.

[Deleted]

After a bit of thought, I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard is going to revamp where rage comes from dramatically.

Looking at anger management and ignite weapon, they are both talents that have the possibility of increasing the value of haste rather significantly if rage became a scarce resource all of a sudden. A few points:

1: Removal of glancing blows is a 15-20% autoattack damage boost. +haste value
2: Anger management seems really overpowered right now because we have so much rage. What if rage granted from non-autoattacks was significantly cut? I'm thinking enrage procs no longer grant rage. This would slightly decrease the value of crit, and increase the value of haste as it leads to more cooldown reduction that isn't so heavily in the diminished returns category. Probably need to increase the amount of rage required for 1 second of reduction as well.
3: Ignite Weapon is a straight up autoattack damage boost, +haste.
4: What if ravager also scaled with haste?
5: To top it off, they could also allow deep wounds to scale with haste.

With all these changes in place, haste might even eclipse mastery at lower crit levels.

Removal of 2PT16 + Rage from Enrage would drop our rage per second from 12~ to around 7.5~, which places storm bolt right at 20 seconds. If Blizzard increased the amount of rage required for 1 second of cooldown reduction, to say, 25 per second of reduction...



Our 7.5 rage per second isn't quite enough to get storm bolt down to 20 seconds. This is kind of an abusive way to make haste a better stat, but it would work.

These changes would boost haste to a point where it's competitive, leave the fury playstyle in place, and also leave crit as the dominant stat.

- - - Updated - - -





60-70% of our rage income is spent on heroic strike now, there's plenty of rage in the tank to keep 100% ignite weapon uptime.

(Wild strike is skewed due to bloodsurge procs)

Though again, if they want to reduce the dominance of Secondaries, why should they leave it on a dominant spot for us?^^ Tbh, while it does feel nice and particularly rewarding right now, I'd much rather have that feeling about Warriors (Fury in particular) while actually going for a PRIMARY. Like.. if people are going to still rely on Secondary-dominance, why not just get rid of Primary Stats and call everything just a Stat? Or why not slowly turn us into GW2 Full Zerker Warriors, that put on all their Crit/CritDMGamp Gear and just slash away on everything? I kind of miss that feeling of STRENGTH.

[Archimtiros]

Though again, if they want to reduce the dominance of Secondaries, why should they leave it on a dominant spot for us?^^ Tbh, while it does feel nice and particularly rewarding right now, I'd much rather have that feeling about Warriors (Fury in particular) while actually going for a PRIMARY. Like.. if people are going to still rely on Secondary-dominance, why not just get rid of Primary Stats and call everything just a Stat? Or why not slowly turn us into GW2 Full Zerker Warriors, that put on all their Crit/CritDMGamp Gear and just slash away on everything? I kind of miss that feeling of STRENGTH.

Short answer:
Because that's not how itemization works in WoW.

Long(er) answer:
Personally I feel like some specs don't get enough from secondaries. I enjoy the fact that we are a bit different, in this day of homogenization amongst the classes. It won't appeal to everyone of course, and it will have some issues, but rest assured the stats will be much closer in line during WoD.
We may still end up favoring a secondary a bit more than primary, but that doesn't really matter since the two don't compete at all except for gems and rarely enchants both of which will be removed in WoD.

[Bloodletters]

Enchants and Gems are going away? I had never heard that before. So, no reforging, enchanting or gemming.

That sounds friggin terrible.

[Requiel]

Enchants and Gems are going away? I had never heard that before. So, no reforging, enchanting or gemming.

That sounds friggin terrible.

Gems (they're only secondary stats) and enchants will still be in there's just a lot less of them ( gems are meant to be bonuses)

[Breccia]

Enchants and Gems are going away? I had never heard that before. So, no reforging, enchanting or gemming.

The story I heard was that enchanting and gemming would still exist, but be far more limited in scope. Reforging, item upgrades, hit/exp/dodge/parry, and metagems are all out. The exact quote, I am not making this up, from Blizzcon was "Gem enchant reforge valor YUCK!" Their stated policy is to reduce the time between getting an item and using it. "We think part of the problem is, there's too much modification you have to do when you get an item."

More details here around minute 36.

[Bloodletters]

Ah, ok. I will say, upgrading gloves is really annoying as a Blacksmither/Engineer. Outside of that it doesn't really bother me. I like the hit/expertise change. There really needs to be a way to modify the stats on gear, even a little, because I'm not completely trusting of their ability to make our secondaries close enough in value for the stat allocation on items to be insignificant.

[Archimtiros]

The story I heard was that enchanting and gemming would still exist, but be far more limited in scope. Reforging, item upgrades, hit/exp/dodge/parry, and metagems are all out. The exact quote, I am not making this up, from Blizzcon was "Gem enchant reforge valor YUCK!" Their stated policy is to reduce the time between getting an item and using it. "We think part of the problem is, there's too much modification you have to do when you get an item."

More details here around minute 36.

This. I should have elaborated, as I posted that I knew someone was going to get confused.

Enchanting and Gemming are going to be cut down significantly. They did not give specifics but from what I remember:

Gem sockets will still appear on gear but be rarer. There will no longer be a crapload of gems; only (I think) Primary Stats. I want to say its just 1 gem socket / item.
Gem sockets can also appear as a "bonus" roll on raid drops. Not sure if it can also have a pre-existing gem slot for 2 gems total or not, but still the point remains - less gems. Not sure about Meta Gems but I am pretty certain they are gone.

Enchanting is going to be toned down as well. They were really vague but said we would have "less enchants but more enchant options". So I imagine that means we will lose all of our + stat enchants (chest, glove, bracer, cloak) and keep things like Runspeed, Weapon Enchants, maybe new options along the same vein. Supposedly more choices as well, though whether or not that works out is anyone's guess.

Reforging is gone, I think its a bad move considering they got rid of the main three culprits, Exp, Dodge and Haste thresholds.

Valor and Item Upgrades remain. From what I understand they like the way item upgrades worked to replace the raid zone stacking debuff of old. I do as well.

No word on things like Tinkers, Spellthread, etc. I imagine they would stay in, if only to keep some worth to other professions.

[Roshar]

Gem sockets will still appear on gear but be rarer. There will no longer be a crapload of gems; only (I think) Primary Stats. I want to say its just 1 gem socket / item.
Gem sockets can also appear as a "bonus" roll on raid drops. Not sure if it can also have a pre-existing gem slot for 2 gems total or not, but still the point remains - less gems. Not sure about Meta Gems but I am pretty certain they are gone.

Gems are only going to be secondary stats. Also, a gem socket itself is a tertiary bonus, so no item will have gem sockets on its own. This is why they are also getting rid of socket bonuses.

As far as professions go, they have mentioned in some interviews that they don't like the idea of profession bonuses and now people level up their professions just to the point where they get the bonus. Most of the people don't level up a profession because they like the profession, rather to just get the bonus. So they have mentioned that they want to get rid of all profession bonuses. But it hasn't been mentioned in an official capacity in a blue post afaik.

[Deleted]

Well if they want to make strength better for us that wouldn't be too hard. On all those abilities that are wdmg or wdmg%+AP you can reduce the %wdmg and increase the AP. Automatically this should make strength better while also less depended on pure weapon dmg.

Do we know for sure if flurry is gone? If it is, will kinda miss it after all these years, even if it wasn't helping towards making haste good.

Collision, if they would do something abusive as you describe to make haste better, doesn't it mean automatically that this talent won't be used untill we have X cdr on gear?

[Archimtiros]

Gems are only going to be secondary stats. Also, a gem socket itself is a tertiary bonus, so no item will have gem sockets on its own. This is why they are also getting rid of socket bonuses.

As far as professions go, they have mentioned in some interviews that they don't like the idea of profession bonuses and now people level up their professions just to the point where they get the bonus. Most of the people don't level up a profession because they like the profession, rather to just get the bonus. So they have mentioned that they want to get rid of all profession bonuses. But it hasn't been mentioned in an official capacity in a blue post afaik.

I'm pretty sure I remember them saying gem sockets will still be on some gear. Likely not raid gear because, like you said, its a bonus roll, but in general. Think about it, there wouldn't be much to do with JC if there were no gems until you got a random bonus roll on a raid item.

I didn't hear that about professions. I'd agree with it to a point, but the problem is that most professions are worthless aside from the bonus. Since raid gear replaces everything crafted anyways, the only time it's really worthwhile is near beginning of expansion when gear is scarce.

To pull it off, I think they'd have to really re institute some kind of perk for having professions, whether useful or economical. Tying profession made stuff into building Garrisons or something might work for a little while, or if they brought back consumables/craftables for each profession (engi - Arrows/Bullets, smith - whetstones) but of course that would never work the way the game is now.

So I feel like if they do nix all profession bonuses, there won't be much of a reason to have any profession, much less "the one you want". Why would you ever take BS or Tailoring over Enchanting or Alchemy to fuel your own raid character?

- - - Updated - - -

Well if they want to make strength better for us that wouldn't be too hard. On all those abilities that are wdmg or wdmg%+AP you can reduce the %wdmg and increase the AP. Automatically this should make strength better while also less depended on pure weapon dmg.

Do we know for sure if flurry is gone? If it is, will kinda miss it after all these years, even if it wasn't helping towards making haste good.

Collision, if they would do something abusive as you describe to make haste better, doesn't it mean automatically that this talent won't be used untill we have X cdr on gear?

We know nothing about Flurry yet, but it devalues Haste so its a prime candidate to get changed/removed.
I don't know of any abilities that are weapon damage + AP. Most are either Wdmg + X or AP + X (and the + X part I think is getting removed entirely? I can't remember, it's late).

I don't think they will go as far as Collision was saying, but its a possibility. Just gives an idea of what they could do to make haste more attractive. And CDR is going to be funky, especially with AM. There will be certain times in gearing where we may not want AM because we have an abundance of CDR; depending on how attractive the other two talents are.

I think the far more likely scenario is that we will simply not want CDR on gear past a certain point because we are using AM. Pretty certain no matter how much they nerf it/rage gen, it's going to be wildly better than IW or Ravager (outside heavy AoE fights), unless they get changed/buffed.

[Skarssen]

Cleave rolling into HS was my suggestion a few months ago and I think would be an amazing addition to the spec. Make it work just like howling blast, with a smaller cleave coefficient that doesn't hamper the single target portion.

Meat Cleaver is effective, but it completely interrupts our single target; it would be nice to be able to do a bit of truely passive cleave damage while maintaining ST. I really doubt it would ever happen though.

This is one of the things I definitely don't want. Any sort of cleave/AOE damage should be a conscious choice. I have no problem with the old model of some specs being really good at AOE but weaker single target, and visa versa, but I don't like the passive model. As a DK main, I HATE that my single target priority in Howling Blast and frost strike, my cleave priority is howling blast and frost strike, my AOE priority is howling blast and frost strike....

[Painapple]

Reforging is gone, I think its a bad move considering they got rid of the main three culprits, Exp, Dodge and Haste thresholds.

I agree with this, with all the changes and introduction of tertiary stats I'd like to have reforging remain in game.