Shadow Blades Gone in WoD

[OMGITSDOT]

I have really enjoyed Shadow Blades so I will definitely miss that it is gone. I want to try out Shadow Reflection it looks like a lot of fun, especially with Shadow Dance.

[Packing an i5]

I understand they just wanted to be rid of Cooldown stacking. However Vendetta is also a boring + damage ability like recklessness but worse because its stuck to one target and easily negated.

Imagine if warriors recklessness was like that? Warriors wouldnt be viable in Arenas anymore if their burst was easy to avoid. Warriors do more consistent damage and burst than rogues and their control isnt very lacking either...Combined with 2 reflects, better mobility, and a passive 25 percent damage reduction while in D stance makes for warriors being very strong in a pvp situation.

Rogues still have more control and enhance the damage of team mates through Prey OTW and Tricks of the trade. Rogues have less than a handful of viable comps they can run usually Rogue/ Mage /X. Both classes only have 1 viable spec but warriors have more comps available to them and for reasons stated above can be much more useful than taking a rogue. Unless the Rogue is highly skilled he will be less mobile, Do far less sustained damage, and be more susceptible to dying when being trained.

I am in no way upset over losing shadow blades. Its being removed to lower burst, and address the bloat and its a boring long cool down ability . I am upset because Vendetta is just as bad.

Would it kill blizzard to give assassination rogues a better cool down? At the very least make vendetta buff on the rogue so it cannot be dispelled.

Assassination use to have not a single cool down besides cold blood... I wouldn't mind living without vendetta to be honest in exchange for a buff to envenom, mutilate and dispatch. Envenom hits like a wet noodle in p v p it needs to hit harder closer to a sub rogues eviscerate.

Envenom ignores armor completely but subs mastery+ find weakness enable it to hit much harder with good old eviscerate than a mutilate rogues envenom. Frequently my envenoms this expansion have hit as low as 26 thousand with 5 combo points and a passive trinket + dancing steel proc..

My hardest hitting envenom ever was 77 thousand in 5.1 on a warrior in a low mmr 3s game. Came out of nowhere and wiped him out but it was some sort of glitch or rarity the likes I will never see again most likely.

Sometimes I can hit 50k dispatches.. so what? Dispatch hits too low on plate and too hard on cloth as someone Stated I think Alcone from the wow forums and I totally agree. I think dispatch should be less weapon damage but strike with 2 weapons like mutilate+ ignore some armor even if its just 50 percent.

Why not just dump vendetta and increase the sustained dps of assassination? Make dispatch proc free mutilates during the execute phase, make vendetta passive or for god sakes give us a good interesting cool down.

Combat gets mindless killing spree which is hard to avoid and hits really hard in a short span of time. Sub gets the versatility of shadow dance + its strong burst Its not really fair at all.

[Phookah]

Shouldn't be playing assass in pvp anyway, its terrible. Its a spec thats totally reliant on high uptime on a target, which is ridiculously hard to achieve with the amount of CC
right now, combined with the fact that your a melee and at the mercy of roots/snares.
Sub is where its at.

[Packing an i5]

I am not currently subbed to wow and I am perfectly aware Sub is the only viable option I believe I state that fact. For years now sub has been the only Rated Pvp spec for rogues because shadow dance Trumps anything the other specs have. Combat has been proven technically viable because Woundman reached 2500 last season with it but hes a veteran glad rogue who gimped himself for the purpose of Fun and experimentation. He despises Sub as Do I but he knows its the only good choice and if he had played as sub he might of been much higher rated but what he did was a great feat and 2500 is still a respectable rating.

What I am asking for is the change or removal of the worst damage cool down in the game vendetta. Gameplay doesnt change when its active and the spec relies on it for maximum output and its easily negated thus making it garbage for pvp.

I am not asking for mutilate to become Top tier again nor DO I state its viable nor deny that sub is the best and only choice.

I am asking for simple quality of Life changes that make total sense, would not ruin anyones day and would make mutilate more workable for pvp. Combat got a huge buff when killing spree was made single target that made it a whole lot easier for Arenas. Why cant mutilate get the same treatment with vendetta?

At the very least remove what makes it clunky. its single target debuff nature easily removed by bubble, block, cloak, and vanish.

Its unerring vision and far range of activiation add no significant boon of utility its simple + 30 percent damage. It needs to be swappable to other targets and become a physical debuff at the very least so it cannot be dispelled.

I merely as a long time Wow and Rogue class player would enjoy my favorite spec being viable again for serious pvp. is that so much to ask for?

I keep getting the same curt responses saying just play sub or See Arms vs fury , Fire vs frost ect. You add nothing to the discussion.

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Shouldn't be playing assass in pvp anyway, its terrible. Its a spec thats totally reliant on high uptime on a target, which is ridiculously hard to achieve with the amount of CC
right now, combined with the fact that your a melee and at the mercy of roots/snares.
Sub is where its at.

they should create a root break talent to replace worthless cloak and dagger or a freedom in that talent tier. Make venomous wounds 100 percent chance to proc at least with the energy return its hard enough sticking to a target to reapply it and Improve vendetta, this would result in the dedicated few mut players happy and wouldnt ruin anyone else' fun.

Why would it be a sin to see an assassination rogue, fury warrior or fire mage in a 2k+ bracket? Also other non viable specs get far better treatment and cry for balance. There are more fire mages, boomkins, destro locks than mutilate rogues in fact there are none on the ladder.

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Things like vendetta are why Rogues have become such a bore to play. Its a boring replacement for hunger for blood. We should just get a 15 percent dps buff whenever the target has a bleed on them passively or should of kept HFB and buffed its duration and damage increase.

Vendetta is on the GCD , is not a physical debuff and is not swappable. What other major burst cooldown is like that?

[Prode]

Beta patch notes not even out you already crying hahah

infracted: flaming

[Deleted]

Preparation being passive is taking this too far. It's such a fun spell in pvp, and it's been around for ages.

[Blur4stuff]

half these problems would be solved by taking combo points off the target

[Maelstrom51]

Combo points are off the target.

[Kael]

Combo points are off the target.

Maybe. Unless I missed a post saying they wanted to go forward with this? The last I heard, they were "experimenting" with the idea.

[Maelstrom51]

Maybe. Unless I missed a post saying they wanted to go forward with this? The last I heard, they were "experimenting" with the idea.

Months ago, Ghostcrawler conceded that combo points on the the target may be an outdated mechanic. Its in no way official, but to me it indicates they've been heading this direction for a while.

[Normie]

Of course you will, people don't read patch notes.

Yes, there are plenty of people yelling to stay off Nazgrim in Defensive Stance.

[Packing an i5]

I def will not miss shb as assassination it was just macroed into vendetta for me. Shadow blades is still far more interesting than vendetta. IM NOT asking them to make blades assassination only that would make it even more craptastic as shadow blades is a 3 minute cooldown.

I would like something with a short cooldown (1min) that has something to do with poisons for assassination.

[Maelstrom51]

I def will not miss shb as assassination it was just macroed into vendetta for me.

That's pretty bad considering the cooldowns do not sync. You're missing Shadow Blades usages by doing this.

[Packing an i5]

That's pretty bad considering the cooldowns do not sync. You're missing Shadow Blades usages by doing this.

For pvp you have to. Vendetta alone or blades alone as mutilate isnt considerable burst damage unless the target is also in execute range. Combined its really strong even if the target is now below 35 percent.

I tried separating the 2 but found opening with both was usually better even in 3s. YOu want a hard opener to try and force trinkets and defensives the only way im going to do as much damage as a sub rogue is to combine Blades and vendetta. Saves a bind too.

Sub can easily afford to separate shb and dance. dance is such a short cooldown and does enough damage on its own.

[SynergyDarkstar]

Sounds good. Also, feint definitely needs a slight nerf.

I was a big fan of an idea Aldriana was kicking around back between Cata and MoP (can't find it on the EJ site now, but the internet never forgets! http://web.archive.org/web/201308100...houghts_feint/)

Basically:
"Feint: Free. 10 second cooldown. 5 second duration. Reduces AoE damage taken by 30%.
Glyph of Feint: Increases Feint mitigation to 40%, but reduces duration to 3 seconds."

The argument was that this still stays somewhat powerful (though less than now), gives an interesting glyph decision, and rewards good timing and good play.

[Deleted]

I'd rather they just put shadow blades, killing spree, and shadow dance as a talent choice.

I mean they showed something similar at the cataclysm convention thing where they had killing spree shadow dance and vendetta as talent choices but the idea was later scrapped before beta.

It's a shame, because shadowdance for assassinations would probably be quite fun, I don't think it would exactly be op especially as you have to give up vendetta.

But hey what i'm proposing is pretty boring anyway and requires a redesign of the talent system. I'd rather they opened up the old talent trees sideways and let you spend points anywhere across any of the 9 columns on passive stuff, you can only spend 5 per row, and you have to pick one major ability after each tier.


So the first tier would look something like:
- 9 columns (3 in assassinations, 3 in combat, 3 in subulety) each with 2-5 ranks each. You can only spend 5 points in that tier.
- Then you're foced to pick one of 3 major abilities (cold blood, blade flurry, preparation FOR EXAMPLE based on the old system)
Then the tree just continues on like this for the next couple of tiers.

Obviously the major abilities would need to be somewhat balanced, but they would be similar to the "talents" we have now which feel completely separated from our specialisations.

This would mean you could pick something like hemo for combat, or pick up sword specialisation for assassinations - especially if the mutilate not requiring daggers is true. Or you could pick up poisons or envenom for subtlety and completely customise your build and rotation, or honour amongst thieves for assassinations/combat at the expense of combat potency/focused attacks.

It's a fun dream, that won't happen, but at least it would bring back customisations.

They should at least do this system for pure dps classes, but such a radical change would cause massive QQ and holy/prot solo-everything-one-man-army paladins may come back.

[Deleted]

I still don't see how Shadow Blades adds anything interested to combat gameplay at all so don't mind it going form that spec, however it's fun as Assassination, way more than Vendetta so that makes sense. However Blizzard knows what they're doing and i guarantee they will look at the feedback (QQ) and talk internally, i think something more fun could be implemented but i don't think this is the end of the world.

[ophion1990]

I'd rather see Vendetta go aswell, or AR even. SB was a pretty cool ability and actually had a decent visual effect, shame to see it go. But we knew it was the most likely to be cut I guess. ( Since they're trying to undo the CD stacking from MoP, removing the CD added in MoP only makes sense.)

[Sheltleth]

It was literally just another button to press which didn't add anything to the rotation or modified how you played your character at all.

Why arent you macroing it with trinkets and or Vendetta (for mut) or sdance (for sub)?

[ymirsson]

It's a shame, because shadowdance for assassinations would probably be quite fun, I don't think it would exactly be op especially as you have to give up vendetta.

Why would you want to Shadowdance when yxou have no Find Weakness in assassination?