finally, an icicle addon

[Not Againnn]

You can loosely get a DPS gain by dumping all 5 when adds spawn. But that's assuming you have a FoF proc and you know adds are about to spawn. Its probably not worth casting IL without FoF for this purpose, but it probably depends on how big all 5 are collectively.

yes which would make this worth it.

idk. i like messing with my icicles and trying to get the most out of them. its just so HARD without some kind of tracking

[Terahertz]

yes which would make this worth it.

idk. i like messing with my icicles and trying to get the most out of them. its just so HARD without some kind of tracking

Can't say I find it really difficult to track them in my head. It's obvious your icicles are going to hit hard if you've shot 2-3 Frostifre Bolts in a row or if you've done like 2 frostbolt crits followed by a couple of FFB procs.

Most of the time if you're spamming frostbolts with procs and CDs up, you usually only want to do so to get 5 icicles are launch your ice lances after that.

[Not Againnn]

Can't say I find it really difficult to track them in my head. It's obvious your icicles are going to hit hard if you've shot 2-3 Frostifre Bolts in a row or if you've done like 2 frostbolt crits followed by a couple of FFB procs.

Most of the time if you're spamming frostbolts with procs and CDs up, you usually only want to do so to get 5 icicles are launch your ice lances after that.

its different in pvp.

[Florena]

I'm no pvper so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the general pvp strategy with frost wasn't to bulid up icicles but to get a brainfreeze proc and 2 FoF procs via frozen orb or freeze, hit alter time and dps cooldowns and burst someone down with an insane barrage of procs rather than hard casting frostbolt to build up icicles?

[Not Againnn]

I'm no pvper so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the general pvp strategy with frost wasn't to bulid up icicles but to get a brainfreeze proc and 2 FoF procs via frozen orb or freeze, hit alter time and dps cooldowns and burst someone down with an insane barrage of procs rather than hard casting frostbolt to build up icicles?

yeah but when u are on say like... a druid with barkskin. most players would just focus all of their procs into the druid hoping for a kill. noticing your icicles are storing for like 1/2 the amount, it would be a good idea to switch so u can get bigger icicles to then burst down the druid with after barkskin in gone. if you kept hitting him before, those icicles would hit for nothing and all those procs/cd's are wasted

either way, its beneficial to know exactly how much stored damage u have for times like these.

having zero icicles, ice lance does nothing in terms of real damage.

having 5 that total out to be like 100k damage when a rogue is about to get away, could make a difference.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

So find out how to fix the issues that no one's been able to code around to date. This isn't us being sour because it's borderline worthless; it's not something that can work properly. Even a "properly" tracking one will involve guesswork in places, and given the nature of client-server interactions, will be inaccurate just about every time it has to guess. I want one as well, for skinning a couple seconds off Proving Grounds. The one I was working on is tuned for my latency though, if I can even get it detecting early deaths properly.

[MrExcelion]

I welcome any sort of Mage discussion, but it's worth mentioning that the MMO-C Mage forum is more geared towards PVE, whereas Bnet's Mage forum is slanted towards PVP. You might find some assistance there or on their super active Arena board, or perhaps the the MMOC or Bnet Addon board.

Not sure how we could better support PVP since there isn't a whole lot of interest. Maybe an all-encompassing single stickied PVP discussion to talk about their day to day, ladder climbs, ask questions, share strategies and macros, and new videos they've released. That'd potentially work. You build it and they will come. I really like how the "general beta talk" thread is playing out right now and is something worth coming back for every day. Would like to see one of these for every tier going forward (ie: T17 general talk, etc). Strong community building.

So in short, I think it'd be cool to try a PVP sticky, and when WoD launches, replace the alpha/beta thread with a Tier 17 sticky. Would go a long way. I'm just one random dude though, just my thoughts.

[Not Againnn]

So find out how to fix the issues that no one's been able to code around to date. This isn't us being sour because it's borderline worthless; it's not something that can work properly. Even a "properly" tracking one will involve guesswork in places, and given the nature of client-server interactions, will be inaccurate just about every time it has to guess. I want one as well, for skinning a couple seconds off Proving Grounds. The one I was working on is tuned for my latency though, if I can even get it detecting early deaths properly.

look dude, there IS a way. i remember in vanilla when people told me things like buff tracking and dmb arrows were impossible, and nlook how far we have come. we need to finda clever way to figure it out. im sorry that YOU may not want or need this addon, but other people do. a lot of pvpers i have talked to said it would be a godsend to be able to know how much damage a key element of the class is going to go

also, theres probably no pvp support because any thread about pvp turns to shit pvp vs pve here lol. actually any thread on this forum eventually turns into an argument.

[Mastamage]

as you may have noticed this community is 99% PVE so that's why PVP threads don't last long.

[Not Againnn]

so that gives every person a right to tell me that this is worthless for them? i would rather the thread die than have somebody tell me that the idea and pursing it is a waste of time.

i dont think so... thats why i made the thread.

[huth]

look dude, there IS a way. i remember in vanilla when people told me things like buff tracking and dmb arrows were impossible, and nlook how far we have come.

The interface was significantly changed since then. Some of the addons commonplace today were in fact impossible to do in vanilla.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

look dude, there IS a way. i remember in vanilla when people told me things like buff tracking and dmb arrows were impossible, and nlook how far we have come. we need to finda clever way to figure it out. im sorry that YOU may not want or need this addon, but other people do. a lot of pvpers i have talked to said it would be a godsend to be able to know how much damage a key element of the class is going to go

Again, I personally want it. I tried to build it during PTR. The ability to finish off a mob in Proving Grounds while you work on the next would be amazing. I've done a bit of PVP as well, I would also like it for that. I have tried. Others have tried. I've gone so far as to get help from an ex of mine who is pretty good with Lua, who has developed some addons for me in the past.

But realize that this isn't a matter of figuring out Lua, or WoW's API, or the fact that trinkets have an ICD, or that you can paint UI elements all over the screen that change in relation to an x,y position of a target or based on a set timer. This is the fact that there's no combat log events generated for anything except Icicle impacts. Creation can be linked to Frostbolt and Frostfire Bolt easily enough, but that's where it ends. They don't just reset when you cast Ice Lance, they're fired individually, and stop when the target dies or is lost. You have no reliable method to track when that happens versus how many Icicles have been launched so far. Some will be lost against a target that dies, you don't even get the impact events for those, they just disappear. You can Ice Lance into FFB, and fire six in a barrage instead of the five you originally had. With the Icy Veins glyph that becomes eight. I know the timing intervals, but I still can't figure out if the last Icicle check is calculated at last one's cast or at the time it would fire if there's another. You could make something that's fudged using the timings, but then you're pushing into latency being a fairly large concern when the timings scale with haste and can get pretty low.

Then on the PVP side, we run into the issue that Icicles are not generated on the modified hit. They're calculated based on pre-damage reduction, and re-modified when they strike the target themselves. How do you know if the target has the trinket 2p? PVP meta (okay, okay, no one runs it and it's minimal anyway)? You can make assumptions, but what about those crazy people who run double DPS trinkets instead of the CC break? What of unrated PVP? Class defensive cooldowns could be checked for easily, but runs the risk of being computationally expensive. Since they're re-calculated on impact, they'll be lowered regardless of where they originated from as well. The addon might say you have 50k from attacking the warrior, but that druid's Barkskin will still reduce them when you swap to him.

This was a design choice by Blizzard to cut down on combat log events. I hold nothing against PVPers, even if there aren't too many on this board, they're entirely welcome. But what you ask is not possible.

[Not Againnn]

what about logging the bf/fb impact damage then resetting when ice lance is cast or when over a casting threshold?

doesnt sound too hard at all. the numbers are already in the game with icicles being made from ffb/fb damage x% mastery.
ill see what i can do with lua tonight and tomorrow morning. the best way to deal with gosi too

in response to your paragraph about pvp; all of what you said may happen anyways. knowing ir ur icicles are going to hit hard or not will give u an edge on any of those scenarios.

[Kenbud]

Do you really think its worth it to have another thing to look at and keep track of with all that goes on in pvp? Personally I couldn't give less of a damn about icicles except for trying to build them before and orb for a hard switch and even then i pretty much have subconsciously tracked the amount I have. You are not generally building icicles inside CDs so when you do pop CDs and start spamming 75-110k Icelances the 15-25k icicles are only really to supplement, anything more would seem do me to be a distraction. Now if they all fired at once that would be a different story.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

what about logging the bf/fb impact damage then resetting when ice lance is cast or when over a casting threshold?

doesnt sound too hard at all. the numbers are already in the game with icicles being made from ffb/fb damage x% mastery.
ill see what i can do with lua tonight and tomorrow morning. the best way to deal with gosi too

in response to your paragraph about pvp; all of what you said may happen anyways. knowing ir ur icicles are going to hit hard or not will give u an edge on any of those scenarios.

So how do you deal with dead/Vanished targets mid-barrage?

I'm fairly sure you just didn't read my post. If it were as simple as pulling spell impacts and mastery% to track them, I'd have done it ages back. It's the edge cases that prevent such a thing from being useful. Especially in PVP, targets tend to die because it's not dead until it's dead. You're not going to swap off and let Icicles finish them off over the next 3 seconds, they might self heal or some unforeseen event. That alone means you're going to screw up the Lance barrage calculation and can't simply reset the count.

I get that. I'm saying that since they're based on unmodded damage, you can't run a calculation to extract the Icicle generated, and run a new one to tell you how much they'll do against that target. You can throw Frostbolts into a Dispersoned Spriest, and turn around to throw full damage Icicles at another target.

[Not Againnn]

You can throw Frostbolts into a Dispersoned Spriest, and turn around to throw full damage Icicles at another target.

this is what i am talking about. maybe it is impossible... that would suck a lot.it doesnt make any sense either. its pretty important to distinguish how much dmg they contain

[mrgreenthump]

Can we please stop the "why do we need this" conversation? Some people want the information it can give, now there is an addon for it. Does it work, maybe not perfectly, but still please don't make this another can it be done/why should it be done conversation.

[Deleted]

The mainproblem with such addons is that the playerbase sees it, takes it, dont know how it works and then comes to the forum to blame someone.
All achieved is more work for moderators and DPS-Helpers.

[Mormolyce]

Blizzard's official line is that they aren't going to bother creating buffs or otherwise allowing tracking of icicles because they're just automatic damage and there really isn't a way to optimise firing them.

I think we're hitting a kind of culture clash.

[huth]

Blizzard's official line is that they aren't going to bother creating buffs or otherwise allowing tracking of icicles because they're just automatic damage and there really isn't a way to optimise firing them.

I think we're hitting a kind of culture clash.

I think part of it is them not wanting people to optimise Icicles, since they're really just supposed to be a passive bonus with special graphics.