'Removed from the group' and 'Dungeon Deserter'

[Memory]

I just had a weird experience: I joined a random dungeon on my level 87 hunter; less than one minute into the dungeon, as the tank moves in for the first pull, I get 'removed from the group' and I obtain the 'Dungeon Deserter' debuff.
First of all, it used to be that you couldn't vote to kick players within the first minutes of the dungeon; I guess that changed.
Secondly, how comes you get the 'Dungeon Deserter' for being removed? That's a contradiction in terms.

Here's a discussion on the same topic: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4032700?page=1

I guess the issue must have been discussed already on this forum as well. Well, sorry if I'm late. Anyway, I think it's one of the most retarded rules that I have ever seen in a videogame: in order to punish people who would sit at the entrance and ask for being kicked, they implemented a rule that can easily be abused with no other restriction than having three persons agreeing on the abuse (wow, as if that's unlikely to happen). I am surprised.

Voice your opinion.

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

You got kicked, and there is a .1% chance it was for some incomprehensible reason, and a 99.9% chance it was for a perfectly understandable reason.

You got the deserter debuff, because getting kicked = leaving the instance. If that weren't the case there would be numerous cases of tanks sitting around requesting to be kicked.

Absolutely no one, ever, gets kicked from a leveling instance for just quietly being there. I wonder if you will share the actual reason you got kicked with us, or just continue to complain about the system that worked correctly.

Also, these three people who have to agree, at least one of them has to be a complete stranger to the other two. A group of three people queuing together can't kick another party member -- that case requires four votes.

[Mirishka]

I just had a weird experience: I joined a random dungeon on my level 87 hunter; less than one minute into the dungeon, as the tank moves in for the first pull, I get 'removed from the group' and I obtain the 'Dungeon Deserter' debuff.
First of all, it used to be that you couldn't vote to kick players within the first minutes of the dungeon; I guess that changed.
Secondly, how comes you get the 'Dungeon Deserter' for being removed? That's a contradiction in terms.

Here's a discussion on the same topic: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4032700?page=1

I guess the issue must have been discussed already on this forum as well. Well, sorry if I'm late. Anyway, I think it's one of the most retarded rules that I have ever seen in a videogame: in order to punish people who would sit at the entrance and ask for being kicked, they implemented a rule that can easily be abused with no other restriction than having three persons agreeing on the abuse (wow, as if that's unlikely to happen). I am surprised.

Voice your opinion.

The sad reality is that there are far too many assholes playing WoW, thinking of far too many ways to grief/upset other players, for Blizzard to have any kind of chance of creating a universally 'fair' ruleset. The bad apples ruining stuff for everyone, oldest story in the book.

Even if you got kicked for no reason (and frankly, I'm skeptical of that), there are people who will insta-queue as tanks/healers just so they can be dicks to groups, only to boast 'LOL KICK ME MY QUEUE IS INSTANT' - the stuff put in place to handle idiots like that is inevitably going to affect people it wasn't intended to.

Best advice I can give is, log another toon and do something else, or log off and do something else altogether.

[melzas]

It's been like that for a while, if you get kicked before first boss is killed you get deserter debuff. I believe there are some hidden restrictions, if there are players who joined together its harder for them to kick someone early (I don't know exactly how it works, blizzard never shares those rules with people so that it's harder to abuse). If you have been kicked for no reason, just suck it up and move on, this kind of behaviour must be really rare, never happened to me or anyone I know (being kicked just for sake of it). I'm not saying you are lying but I hard it hard to believe they just kicked random person just for fun...

[foxHeart]

You got kicked, and there is a .1% chance it was for some incomprehensible reason, and a 99.9% chance it was for a perfectly understandable reason.

Yes. Clearly. Because we all know that people, 99.9% of the time, do things for perfectly understandable reasons, especially while hiding behind the anonymity games like WoW has to offer.

[Deleted]

solutely no one, ever, gets kicked from a leveling instance for just quietly being there. I wonder if you will share the actual reason you got kicked with us, or just continue to complain about the system that worked correctly.

That's wrong. I've been kicked once in the first ten seconds of entering a fresh dungeon.

[Mirishka]

Yes. Clearly. Because we all know that people, 99.9% of the time, do things for perfectly understandable reasons, especially while hiding behind the anonymity games like WoW has to offer.

And clearly people don't eveeeer omit their own fault in argument, disagreements, etc right?

[Deleted]

It must have been you're attitude. After a minute of being in a group with you they just thought to themselves "fuck this guy, I ain't taking no more of his shit... fuck him and his fuckin retarded pet".

[Ssateneth]

People are dicks. Especially ones where its a guild group. You probably joined a guild group that was trolling.

[ComputerNerd]

You got kicked, and there is a .1% chance it was for some incomprehensible reason, and a 99.9% chance it was for a perfectly understandable reason.

You got the deserter debuff, because getting kicked = leaving the instance. If that weren't the case there would be numerous cases of tanks sitting around requesting to be kicked.

Absolutely no one, ever, gets kicked from a leveling instance for just quietly being there. I wonder if you will share the actual reason you got kicked with us, or just continue to complain about the system that worked correctly.

Also, these three people who have to agree, at least one of them has to be a complete stranger to the other two. A group of three people queuing together can't kick another party member -- that case requires four votes.

Getting kicked for no good reason I suspect happens way more than you like to believe.
Competition for a given loot drop, or simply being below some inflated expectation.
The community is horrible like that at times.

[Lord Pebbleton]

And clearly people don't eveeeer omit their own fault in argument, disagreements, etc right?

http://i.imgur.com/bFdob.jpg

This was linked in the topic OP linked. Removed right after joining.
So I'm inclined to say OP is not lying, and there's a problem with the current system.

[Deleted]

I think the real issue here is should blizzard disable dungeon deserter for having being kicked?

[Fang7986]

OP there is nothing stopping you from making your own groups outside of dungeon finder, then maybe this wouldn't happen

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

http://i.imgur.com/bFdob.jpg

This was linked in the topic OP linked. Removed right after joining.
So I'm inclined to say OP is not lying, and there's a problem with the current system.

If only we had time stamps.

[Deleted]

You got kicked, and there is a .1% chance it was for some incomprehensible reason, and a 99.9% chance it was for a perfectly understandable reason.

I call bullshit on those numbers.

You got the deserter debuff, because getting kicked = leaving the instance. If that weren't the case there would be numerous cases of tanks sitting around requesting to be kicked.

That's news to me, I don't remember ever getting that when kicked.

Absolutely no one, ever, gets kicked from a leveling instance for just quietly being there. I wonder if you will share the actual reason you got kicked with us, or just continue to complain about the system that worked correctly.

Yeah that totally happens. Happened to me at least once where I literally didn't to anything. I just joined the group and they removed me. And there were several times where I didn't do anything wrong and they kicked me, or tried to kick me for stupid reasons, like not wanting to kick another person etc. Turns out sometimes people are dicks.

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

Getting kicked for no good reason I suspect happens way more than you like to believe.
Competition for a given loot drop, or simply being below some inflated expectation.
The community is horrible like that at times.

You have to have 3 people who don't know each other, or 4 people who do, decide to make that kick.

It can happen for some completely unreasonable reason, but in general, it doesn't, especially because if you are inclined toward that behavior, you will get a kick timer that will stay with you for months/years.

- - - Updated - - -

If only we had time stamps.

If only there were some way to authenticate a screen shot without access to Blizzard's screen shot "watermark" tools.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

If only there were some way to authenticate a screen shot without access to Blizzard's screen shot "watermark" tools.

I honestly don't know what you mean, care to explain?

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

That's news to me, I don't remember ever getting that when kicked.

Leaving the instance and being kicked are exactly the same for the purposes of the deserter debuff, and have been since the kick system was revised (due to intensive abuse) in the early months of Cataclysm.

You will not get a deserter debuff if you have been in the instance long enough, or if you have pulled a boss. Not sure about the case where you drop group after the boss has been pulled but you haven't been in combat with the boss.

- - - Updated - - -

I honestly don't know what you mean, care to explain?

Screen shots have watermark info that contains some version, date/time, system, user ID info in them. They've had that for years. It's helpful when Blizzard picks through screenies on web sites that rhyme with "moaned whore."

[Memory]

You got kicked, and there is a .1% chance it was for some incomprehensible reason, and a 99.9% chance it was for a perfectly understandable reason.

What you call 'incomprehensible reason' is perfectly comprehensible: for example the fact that I may be competing on the loot with someone else.

What - I believe - you are suggesting by juxtaposing 'incomprehensibe' vs. 'comprehensible reason' is probably the fact that I was kicked for being poorly geared or having bad attitude or ninja pulling, etc. I might state otherwise, post screenshots, link my armory, whatever, but it's pointless: the actual truth is rather for a GM to investigate, while you're just playing the assumptions game (other than filling your reasoning with logical fallacies). Anyway, what matters the most is that you groundlessly assume that people get kicked for rightful reasons in the 99.9% of the circumstances. Well, the pretended accuracy of your argument is just a display of hyperboles and unproven assumptions.

So, in conclusion, thanks for your feedback on what you think I may have done: that's beyond the point.
It's interesting, instead, that you believe that people get kicked nearly always for rightful reasons. How so? For example, it was even discussed in the early days of the dungeon finder that people click 'yes' on the vote to kick without even reading the reason nor wondering if there is one, as long as it's not the tank nor the healer. And that was an issue beofre that the dungeon deserter was added as an effect of being kicked. Having a fourth stranger click 'yes' on the vote is, in fact, far from unlikely.
Finally, from your assumptions, you seem to derive the fairness of the rule.

The bottom line is: the deserter debuff as an effect of the kick was implemented - as I read and as I understand - in order to punish players that would sit at the entrance, refuse to leave and do nothing. So, the system is intended to deal with wrongful behaviour. On the other hand, the system itself can be easily exploited for other kind of wrongful behaviour (as I experienced today). So, I see the issue that they were trying to address, but my point is exactly that the rule was implemented poorly and it's an example of bad design.

OP there is nothing stopping you from making your own groups outside of dungeon finder, then maybe this wouldn't happen

There goes the scripted answer.
Who said that I cannot?

[announced]

I just had a weird experience: I joined a random dungeon on my level 87 hunter; less than one minute into the dungeon, as the tank moves in for the first pull, I get 'removed from the group' and I obtain the 'Dungeon Deserter' debuff.
First of all, it used to be that you couldn't vote to kick players within the first minutes of the dungeon; I guess that changed.
Secondly, how comes you get the 'Dungeon Deserter' for being removed? That's a contradiction in terms.

Here's a discussion on the same topic: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4032700?page=1

I guess the issue must have been discussed already on this forum as well. Well, sorry if I'm late. Anyway, I think it's one of the most retarded rules that I have ever seen in a videogame: in order to punish people who would sit at the entrance and ask for being kicked, they implemented a rule that can easily be abused with no other restriction than having three persons agreeing on the abuse (wow, as if that's unlikely to happen). I am surprised.

Voice your opinion.

even if they kicked u for no reason, theres an easy way to avoid being kicked. just MD threat to the tank and pull instantly. as long as ur always in combat its pretty hard to get kicked. u can also delay rolls on items too. ive had people kick me for no reason before so i learned a few tricks.