Malaysian Airlines flight carrying 295 people has been shot down in Ukraine

[Bolson13]

No, he is absolutely correct with that claim..

Top 10 Worlds largest economies - GDP in trillions of U.S. dollars:
1. USA - 17.5
2. China - 10.0
3. Japan - 4.8
4. Germany - 3.9
5. France - 2.9
6. UK - 2.8
7. Brazil - 2.2
7. Italy - 2.2
9. Russia 2.1
10. India 2.0

No Netherlands....

Also much less mouths to feed and a much more diverse economy. Russia pretty much relies on gas and raw materials. It is for Russias best intrest to keep the flow of gas going (which happened even during the cold war if im not mistaken).

[Wildtree]

Okay, let's stop the Crimea talk. It was brought up again by the Ukranian government fanatics but you can't argue with obvious facts: Crimea belongs to Russia and there is nothing anyone could ever possibly do with it. Period. And it's offtopic for this thread.

Moving on the actual topic, I wonder how everyone close their eyes and pretend it never happened. C'mon, the answers are just to harsh for you:

Several very inconvenient questions for Ukranian army supporters.

1. Why have they purposedly left behind a (broken) Buk for rebels?
2. Why after it was proven (reported by rebels and Ukranian army own report to their government was disclosed) it was broken they immediately claimed NO Buks were in possession of rebels?
3. Why have they created a fake recording of claiming the shot?
4. Why the boeing was approached by Ukranian fighters?
5. Why Ukranian own Buks were moved to this area beforehand?

1. Well, the equipment was at a military base that has been overrun by the rebels.
2. Whether it was functional or broken is imo unclear. The claims contradict each other, and often even the claims from the same source.
I would argue how it could very well have been a protective lie by the Ukrainians to not cause any kind of panic amongst it's people. It's a scary thought, and an embarrassing situation on top, having to admit how the other side just seized some serious powerful weaponry from you.
Points 3 - 5 are speculations, or even outright false.

[Shalcker]

Well, the problem is a little more difficult than that.
It's been a territory that belonged to Russia. The people living there were Russians. During the Soviet times the territory was shifted over to Ukraine, as a trade arrangements for surrender/destruction of nukes.
It's been dealt out entirely by politicians, and the people living there have never been asked whether they are okay with that.
Only a few decades later these people rose up, due to apparent discriminatory treatment. They then called on the motherland for help. The call for help was answered.
One has to at least try to look at this objective.

I just want to add that it's not like they didn't rise up and tried to get more independent before; they just were subjugated in 90's.

Then Maidan critically weakened Ukrainian governance and completely demoralized interior forces that were made scapegoats, Crimeans seen it as their chance and seized the situation.

Takeaway: Don't weaken your country if you have unresolved tensions inside.

This weakness is also why they still cannot subjugate rebels in Donetsk and Lugansk after four months of their Anti-Terrorist Operation, leading to plane loss.

[MerinPally]

Of course I can give you answers for all these questions. It's just you will ignore it anyway because it's inconvenient for you. Honestly, you are like 3 year kids when playing hide-and-seek, they close their eyes and think if they can't see anyone, no one will see them as well. It's time to open your eyes and face the reality.

This is so ironic it hurts.

You pull your questions out of thin air, we don't answer them because we don't have evidence and neither do you so the fact you're asking them is ridiculous to begin with. You don't have evidence for your claims, and your jingoism is showing. Discussion with you is like headbutting a brick wall and slightly less productive, because your pro russia hardon prevents your brain from functioning.

Your questions have answerss and/or are pure speculation on your part with no evidence to even warrant asking them. If we make up questions about Russia, you going to try and prove them?

[Puri]

1. Why have they purposedly left behind a (broken) Buk for rebels?
No idea. I'd guess there was not enough time to move it when the invasion started.

2. Why after it was proven (reported by rebels and Ukranian army own report to their government was disclosed) it was broken they immediately claimed NO Buks were in possession of rebels?
No idea. Perhaps the left hand has no idea what the right hand does? Or the statements come from different propaganda sides?

3. Why have they created a fake recording of claiming the shot?
There is no proof released that states it is faked nor that it is authentic.

4. Why the boeing was approached by Ukranian fighters?
There is no proof released it was.

5. Why Ukranian own Buks were moved to this area beforehand?
No idea. Perhaps to defend their country from invadors?

[May90]

No, he is absolutely correct with that claim..

Top 10 Worlds largest economies - GDP in trillions of U.S. dollars:
1. USA - 17.5
2. China - 10.0
3. Japan - 4.8
4. Germany - 3.9
5. France - 2.9
6. UK - 2.8
7. Brazil - 2.2
7. Italy - 2.2
9. Russia 2.1
10. India 2.0

No Netherlands....

"Larger" and "better" are different things. "Larger" is the size of GPD. "Better" is the size of GDP per capita:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...al)_per_capita
13. Netherlands - 47,633
50. Russia - 14.818

Am i delusional? Russia was in G8 kid... (before the Crimean crisis)

What does G8 have to do with which economy is better? Especially since, as you yourself mentioned, Russia is no longer in G8.

Russia belonged to mongols when? And your Netherlands belonged to Greek / Roman Empire with the same logic. I am talking 13 years ago child.

Well, it was you who said that, since Crimea belonged to Russia, it has right to take it back, so... You are pwned thrice.

[Wildtree]

Also much less mouths to feed and a much more diverse economy. Russia pretty much relies on gas and raw materials. It is for Russias best intrest to keep the flow of gas going (which happened even during the cold war if im not mistaken).

Russia relies on selling that gas.....
The ones relying on the gas are we in the EU.....
The gas mechanism is already established..
Not every country enters an embargo with Russia. Not every country that doesn't enter it, has at the same time a no trade agreement with an embargo nation that needs gas. Solution.... Embargo country buys the gas from the non-embargo country. The gas just costs more now, due to the non-embargo country's profit margin.

[bclumas]

Thanks for completely proving my point.

I didn't prove your point? You started off your post by saying "Yea.. let's not talk about Crimea anymore since it's offtopic and we ALL KNOW that it's Russia's anyway." It's like a four year old little girl putting their fingers in their ears and screaming "I said it last and can't hear you NANA!" It's childish and we all see what you tried to do there. Next, you posed the same questions for the past several pages looking for people to answer them. Nobody is going to go down that route with you because they're OBVIOUSLY biased. You're looking for answers that nobody has, and, when nobody can answer them, you'll use it to further back your point. Similar questions could be posed to you about anything Russian, and you'd pawn it off as nation bashing and Russian pride.

As I said, I have been reading this thread for a very long time. Your arguments are nothing but emotionally driven and full of flaws. You have no facts to support anything that you claim, and the only time people don't have a response for you is when you pose questions that nobody, including yourself, has answers to. Your contribution to this thread has been lacking since you arrived in it, and you've only gone further to fuel and flame the arguments that have led to this thread being derailed several times. We get it: you like Russia. We definitely got that a long time ago. Take your zealotry elsewhere because nobody actually cares about it.

[Puupi]

Okay, let's stop the Crimea talk. It was brought up again by the Ukranian government fanatics but you can't argue with obvious facts: Crimea belongs to Russia and there is nothing anyone could ever possibly do with it. Period. And it's offtopic for this thread.

How pathetic and wrong.

Moving on the actual topic, I wonder how everyone close their eyes and pretend it never happened. C'mon, the answers are just to harsh for you:

Several very inconvenient questions for Ukranian army supporters.

1. Why have they purposedly left behind a (broken) Buk for rebels?
2. Why after it was proven (reported by rebels and Ukranian army own report to their government was disclosed) it was broken they immediately claimed NO Buks were in possession of rebels?
3. Why have they created a fake recording of claiming the shot?
4. Why the boeing was approached by Ukranian fighters?
5. Why Ukranian own Buks were moved to this area beforehand?

I'm not an Ukrainian army supporter, but here is my take on those questions.

1. As your question stated, it was broken. Maybe it couldn't be moved. We don't know how it was broken.
2. Source for Ukrainian army saying there are no Buk's in possession of the rebels? And in addition, source for saying specifically that there aren't ANY, working or broken, Buk's?
3. Your proof that it is fake? It could be, but there is no proof. If there isn't an Indonesian Thompson university student aboard that plane, then it can be proven as fake.
4. There is no proof of fighters following the plane. Even if there were, there is no proof (or even a clue) of them shooting it down. It's quite obvious as of now that the plane was shot down with a ground-to-air missile.
5. Source for that? Regardless of that, it is quite obvious that Buk's are needed near the war zone and Russian border.

[Darkrulerxxx]

Obama just had a press conference in which the U.S. asserts that the pro-Russian separatists shot down the plane.

This is going to be bad :/

war seems inevitable now, i don't think we can't avoid it as long as Russia is allowing this to happen.

[Orange Joe]

Obama just had a press conference in which the U.S. asserts that the pro-Russian separatists shot down the plane.

This is going to be bad :/

war seems inevitable now, i don't think we can't avoid it as long as Russia is allowing this to happen.

There will not be a war from this......

[GennGreymane]

Putin says since it crashed in Ukraine that it is Ukraine's fault.

[Darkrulerxxx]

There will not be a war from this......

a civilian airliner shot down from a continuing conflict between two countries can most certainly start involvement from other countries.

[Cairhiin]

Obama just had a press conference in which the U.S. asserts that the pro-Russian separatists shot down the plane.

This is going to be bad :/

war seems inevitable now, i don't think we can't avoid it as long as Russia is allowing this to happen.

There won't be a war, if there's really condemning evidence against the pro Russian separatists, Russia will probably drop them like a brick and wash their hands off of the situation.

[Ulmita]

If ever a war between NATO and Russia starts, be certain the both USA and Russia will burn to the ground along with other countries, but those two will lit up. Never, ever wish for such things, we are talking about billions of dead.

[Wildtree]

"Larger" and "better" are different things. "Larger" is the size of GPD. "Better" is the size of GDP per capita:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...al)_per_capita
13. Netherlands - 47,633
50. Russia - 14.818

The size of the economy says not much about the living quality, that's true.
There's a better example present in the top 10...... India.... That's by population right up there with China, and has only 1/5 the size of economy total.

[May90]

How pathetic and wrong.

And funny. They took Crimea by force, falsified the "elections", and now they say that there is nothing anyone can do and that Crimea belongs to Russia. Hitler said that too 70 years ago, now look where his Nazi empire is. I don't think Russia will be able to hold against full-scale assault for 6 years as Hitler did.

Putin says since it crashed in Ukraine that it is Ukraine's fault.

Lulz. I wonder who's fault was when that another plane crashed in Atlantic then. Poseidon's?

[Army Dreamer]

but those two will lit up

Right! Like they did in WWI and WWII! Oh, wait.

[Orange Joe]

a civilian airliner shot down from a continuing conflict between two countries can most certainly start involvement from other countries.

No it won't. Not the first time something like this has happened.

[Deleted]

a civilian airliner shot down from a continuing conflict between two countries can most certainly start involvement from other countries.

Name these other countries, because right now, none will dare to intervene without widespread support.

And, while this is tragic, the death of a few hundred civilians will not prompt immediate military deployment by your supposed nations.