Why does Blizzard still allow Master Looter in pugs?

[Tradu]

There is a window informing you of Loot rules already. Why not turn it into a vote window? In pugs most people would vote on spec loot, in organized raids raiders would vote ML upon entering the instance.

I've never seen that window before, so I assume it's either from DBM or oQueue.

@OP: That's the risk you take by joining a PUG, masterlooter isn't the problem. Blizzard isn't going to do anything about it, so just move on.

[Amerissis]

I think Blizzard should make a window upon creating a raid where the raidleader has to pick what the lootrules are. So things like 'Masterloot: Mainspec roll, highest roll wins, nothing reserved' or 'ML: All roll, highest roll wins, items reserved (add items in textbox)'. Then when you enter the raid, you get to see that window and agree to it. When the ML then doesn't follow these rules, it's easier to make a ticket. This way there are always clear rules and you can't have stupid people entering a raid without asking for clear rules whining about breaking those non-existent rules.

[Cernunnos]

Did he advertise item as being free to roll on, then ninja it? If so he will get the item removed. He stated loot rules then clearly broke them.

Did he make no indication of any loot rules, then take the item? If so nothing will happen. Master Looter with no prior loot rules spoken in chat/vent is an agreement by all members present that the Master Looter can do whatever he or she pleases with the loot.

This is Blizzard's stance on ML in raids, even pugs.

[Deleted]

i say fight it mate you have proof and good shall conquer evil. These are guys just want to sit back and accept everything that's why this rubbish happens. Its a negative impact on the game and blizzard and subscribers have a responsibility to help or at least try to fix this. Its been an issue which blizzard have been aware of for sometime but don't seem to do much about it. Also its not the subscribers responsibility to fix issues which have been allowed to happen in game, he has proof so why isn't it being fixed, make an example of this clown and at least try to stop it!!!!!

[Deleted]

Mods are going to make you censor their names.

it's too late

I'VE SEEN EVERYTHING AND.. THE WORLD.. WILL.. KNOW!

[Surfd]

they've thought of several methods and the only fair way is removing human interaction (personal loot) but this doesn't work when there's a cap on loot since if you win something you don't need someone else has missed out

Personal loot does not work this way. There is no loot cap with the LFR style personal loot system. Every single person in the raid rolls their own loot roll, completely independant of every other person in the raid. It is entirely possible (though statistically slim) for every single person in the raid to get an actual piece of loot off the same boss kill, just as the same statistical possibility exists that every single person in the raid could get nothing but the cash bag.

Honstly, there are two really easy ways to "Fix" this issue:
- First, and argueably easier, would be that the method of Loot distriubution should be fixed and rendered un-changable either the first time the instance is entered, or it should be locked out each time a boss is pulled. This would prevent people from randomly changing the loot-type at the last second or mid way through the dungeon so they can ninja stuff (like changing to master looter at 2% on the last boss so you can ninja the mount if it drops). Locking the Loot method to the instance when first entered would be the better option. If you zone in, and it says "This group is using Master Looter", do you agree / disagree, then resolving any issue becomes a non issue. If you stayed and got ripped off, it is no one's fault but your own. You knew up front what the loot rules were, and there was no way for the lead to change them.

That would allow for some possibility of "gameing the system", though, since guilds could still stack the raid with guildies, and pull in pugs and just hope to win loot through superior numbers.

A more foolproof way to fix it would be to allow each individual player in the group to specifiy if they want Personal Loot, or Normal Loot. All the people using Normal Loot would still be operating under the normal loot rules (be it FFA, Group Loot, Round Robin, Need Before Greed or Master Looter). The Boss would still drop loot, and it would be distributed as normal. A person using personal loot would be completely in-elligable for any drops recieved by the people using Group Loot. The kicker that would prevent the "Normal Loot" people from gameing the system is that the Loot off the boss would be scaled based on the number of Normal Loot people, NOT the total number of people in the raid. A 20 man raid, with 10 people using "Personal" loot and 10 people using "Normal Loot", would drop loot as if it was a 10 man raid.

[Deleted]

On a side note, we need to get rid of this, in general. As long as people can hide behind the shroud of anonymity they don't fear consequences, and thus feel encouraged to act as they please, which might work for those few who still have a moral code but, quite frankly, for most people that "enjoyed" massive online communities like those of MMOs over an extended period of time it doesn't even begin to work.

Maybe, but we also don't know the context. As ML, you can have a loot rule people need to perform well or there can be loot reserved (probably not the case here, but still). About people having to perform I can attest I have seen some of the worst shitters who AFK, or get completely carried by as well as others who then receive loot cause they deserve it. Fair? At least a roll modifier would've been more fair. Oh also, I maintain a spreadsheet of people who express toxic behavior. I share it with friends.

[Arbs]

I would say put a ticket in with the picture with your explanation & I'm sure a GM will look it over. You prbly not get the item, but the player could suffer some time indeed.

[Hyve]

Don't join runs that use Master Looter then? Sure, it's lame when they change it mid-combat, or just before, but Master Looter still has uses, especially in boost runs ...

[Mormolyce]

Because they have never, ever, ever taken ninjaing as seriously as they should.

[Deleted]

always ask for the loot rules before the run starts and screenshot it, Blizzard will then be able to help you.

[Deleted]

Because they have never, ever, ever taken ninjaing as seriously as they should.

Most people are too lazy to ask for precise loot rules if they even ask for any loot rules. So why should blizzard care?

[Hyve]

Because they have never, ever, ever taken ninjaing as seriously as they should.

If the Raid Leader / Loot Master strictly said that the loot will be Need before Greed, or something and then they change it, you can petition a Game Master and they'll intervene. Though, it'd need to be said in Raid Chat (Or similar).

[Deleted]

If the Raid Leader / Loot Master strictly said that the loot will be Need before Greed, or something and then they change it, you can petition a Game Master and they'll intervene. Though, it'd need to be said in Raid Chat (Or similar).

smart ninjas recruit people via oqueue, they can even say it's ffa in oqueue group note and the gms can't do shit

[Mormolyce]

Most people are too lazy to ask for precise loot rules if they even ask for any loot rules. So why should blizzard care?

They should care because it's an extremely negative experience, and a more formal loot system for pugs could easily remedy it.

If the Raid Leader / Loot Master strictly said that the loot will be Need before Greed, or something and then they change it, you can petition a Game Master and they'll intervene. Though, it'd need to be said in Raid Chat (Or similar).

IMO, that is nowhere near a sufficient treatment for the problem.

[Hyve]

smart ninjas recruit people via oqueue, they can even say it's ffa in oqueue group note and the gms can't do shit

They can if you screenshot the loot rules, as long as it's done in-game they can intervene. A friend of mine did the same thing (Stole loot), and was reported and lost the loot.

[Deleted]

They can if you screenshot the loot rules, as long as it's done in-game they can intervene. A friend of mine did the same thing (Stole loot), and was reported and lost the loot.

loot rules in a third party addon?

my plans!!!!

[Hyve]

IMO, that is nowhere near a sufficient treatment for the problem.

And what should they do? Automatically ban people? People who steal loot are given a warning, and sometimes are banned. What else would you want them too do?

- - - Updated - - -

loot rules in a third party addon?

It's still in-game, and if you screenshot it they can still intervene.

[Mormolyce]

And what should they do? Automatically ban people? People who steal loot are given a warning, and sometimes are banned. What else would you want them too do?

No, rebuild the loot system. The current one is 10 years old and only "works" at all because they allow ML so that people can set their own loot rules. I mean, how many people use round robin or one of the obscure loot options the game gives you?

They need to make a loot system that people can sign up to in advance so that there isn't one person in the party who can ninja all the loot. A decent one that makes sense to players.

[Hyve]

No, rebuild the loot system. The current one is 10 years old and only "works" at all because they allow ML so that people can set their own loot rules. I mean, how many people use round robin or one of the obscure loot options the game gives you?

They need to make a loot system that people can sign up to in advance so that there isn't one person in the party who can ninja all the loot. A decent one that makes sense to players.

I agree it could use updating, and some of them like you mentioned are worthless, but... The current Master Looter is not an issue. There are many times I've been on boosting runs where the people we're boosting out-number us, but we still need to use Master Looter as it's our run, we're organising it.