Thok's Fixate and Raid Awareness

[Gael]

My 10N team is currently 10/14, and we're having major issues handling Thok's fixate mechanic during Phase 2. We've thrown markers down, kiting him back and forth the across the room, trying to get the ranged stacked up during fixate, nothing's working. We have the throughput for the fight; it's just when somebody kites Thok through the raid and kills 3-4 people, the encounter really isn't "winnable" after that.

As raid lead, I'm calling out practically every little thing during the encounter: Bloodlust, when to tank swap, phase switches, who's getting fixated, where to go if they get fixated, how long until fixate ends, if they're out of range of a healer, when he's picking the next fixate target, who's getting fixated, when the jailor has been picked up, when the jailor has been killed, when the prison door is unlocked, which foot to stack up on after he eats the prisoner.

And then, one of these happens...
1. Running right into Thok when he fixates on them.
2. Being told to run to one marker, but for whatever reason deciding to run to the other marker, then getting killed by the insta-kill radius around the boss.
3. Cornering themselves, then get fixated, and die because there's nowhere to run.
4. Avoiding the fixate, but running far out of healer's range, then dieing from lack of heals.
5. Dragging Thok through the group while trying to avoid the fixate.

Anybody have thoughts about how to fix the issue? It's brought our progression to a grinding halt.

[Sinyc]

Why are your raiders kiting Thok into a group of people?

During fixate, have everyone get away before the 1st fixate goes out, then have the fixated person run to the southern part of the room or northern (which ever makes the most sense at the time) then have the rest of the raid go to the jailed NPC's. Rinse and repeat..?

Here is a guide for the fight that you should show to your raid: (its really not that hard)

http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/thok-th...ailed-strategy

[Littlepinch]

2 things i can say is

1) Tell everyone in the raid that if you are not standing on that outer ring you're doing it wrong ( I always see at least 1 person standing somewhat in the middle of the room)
If everyone is on the outside of the room, you won't be in too much danger of getting killed by thok ( unless someone derps and runs him towards the group )

2) When the fixate phase starts tell everyone to act like they WILL get picked by fixate. This way when you don't get picked you just break off and go to the next stacking point to get dispelled.

Make sure everyone gets used to moving as a unit.

These are the 2 main things i stress to my group when we do thok. ALWAYS act like you WILL get picked.

Hope this helps Cheers

[Gael]

Why are your raiders kiting Thok into a group of people?

During fixate, have everyone get away before the 1st fixate goes out, then have the fixated person run to the southern part of the room or northern (which ever makes the most sense at the time) then have the rest of the raid go to the jailed NPC's. Rinse and repeat..?

I wish I knew. It's only happened a handful of times, but that's a handful of times too many. We usually send people to the outer ring as he flips into Phase 2, then have folks make their way over to the add once it's safe for them to. I'll definitely show them the Icy Veins guide, and probably make them read it beforehand. Thank you!

2) When the fixate phase starts tell everyone to act like they WILL get picked by fixate. This way when you don't get picked you just break off and go to the next stacking point to get dispelled.

I like this idea. For Malkorok, we were having issues with the puddles for a while, until I told people to assume no one else is getting in the puddle, and if we wipe because the puddles explode, it'll be on your head. Worth a shot with Thok, too. Thank you!

[Khorm]

You seem like a reasonable player so here's my advice.

Gquit.
App to a better guild.

[Gael]

You seem like a reasonable player so here's my advice.

Gquit.
App to a better guild.

Not an option. These folks aren't just my raid team, they're my friends, even if they derp pretty hard sometimes.

[Maleric]

Everyone should have a UI that gives them a hard to miss warning when they get they get targeted by Fixate. Basic DBM does it, and you can also do it with WeakAuras or the like, and most raid frame addons also let you show it there.

Beyond that, you may just be raiding with people with slow reflexes, in which case you're kind of screwed.

[Ltgoose]

Okay, so there is a lot of really good advice in this thread. I would like to add to it with what my team does. I may cover some previously mentioned ideas so bear with me.

I won't go over phase one as it sounds like your group is having problems with the phase 2 portions of the encounter. As mentioned above, everyone and I mean everyone has to get to the outer ring pronto when he transitions. Your raiders have to be mindful of where everyone is and where they are so if they get picked to the fixate, they can move accordingly. We have our melee dps on the jailer near where we are unlocking the prisoners (we do poison first, ice second, fire last). Our ranged dps stands on the border of the outer and inner ring so that they are in range of Thok most of the time. They are also stacked up relative to where we will stay when we start phase 1 over again after the sacrfice so there is little movement. We generally take his fixate to 7 stacks before we unlock the gate so he hits about 9 stacks (which starts to move faster than you) when the RP is almost done.

Take the fight one phase at a time. It will take practice and the full attention of your raiders. You are not responsible for making their decisions. They should know what is going on around them and not tunnel vision the boss. Really it boils down to positioning and situational awareness. These two things will make or break this fight.

Best of luck to you and your group!

[Littlepinch]

Okay, so there is a lot of really good advice in this thread. I would like to add to it with what my team does. I may cover some previously mentioned ideas so bear with me.

I won't go over phase one as it sounds like your group is having problems with the phase 2 portions of the encounter. As mentioned above, everyone and I mean everyone has to get to the outer ring pronto when he transitions. Your raiders have to be mindful of where everyone is and where they are so if they get picked to the fixate, they can move accordingly. We have our melee dps on the jailer near where we are unlocking the prisoners (we do poison first, ice second, fire last). Our ranged dps stands on the border of the outer and inner ring so that they are in range of Thok most of the time. They are also stacked up relative to where we will stay when we start phase 1 over again after the sacrfice so there is little movement. We generally take his fixate to 7 stacks before we unlock the gate so he hits about 9 stacks (which starts to move faster than you) when the RP is almost done.

Take the fight one phase at a time. It will take practice and the full attention of your raiders. You are not responsible for making their decisions. They should know what is going on around them and not tunnel vision the boss. Really it boils down to positioning and situational awareness. These two things will make or break this fight.

Best of luck to you and your group!

I agree with everything said here. Good advice.

[love45acp]

At the risk of bringing out all the "OMG NO CAREBEAR HAND-HOLDING" elitist rage... have you asked your raiders why they run where they do when fixated?

Thok is still the most difficult encounter for my 10N group. I'm a disc priest, and dreaded it until we changed some things.
- The healers are marked, so the DPS comes to us and not the other way around;
- Ranged and melee stack on the jailers at the outer ring, to minimize movement, optimize heals and dispels, and make the fixate path predictable;
- The path for leading fixate, down the center of the room, from the hallway to the back, never changes, because we know where it will start (in the stack);
- Where to go after he's transitioned is set; he isn't tanked on a particular mark. We just move as a stack to the tanks;
- I personally turned on 'friendly' nameplates so it was easier to see where everyone was, and pulled my camera out and up, almost straight down, and waaay back.

As mentioned already, the fight is all about positioning. We still sometimes wipe on Thok, and when we do, it's not from running him through the raid. It's usually ranged DPS not getting heals/dispels because they are out of position (out of healing range). I would just ask your folks what makes the encounter difficult for them, and see how they respond. Good luck!

[Littlepinch]

Everyweek I have to walk people through the movements ( I call this the "Dance" ) - Before we pull I put down all the markers and go through each movement they should be doing. After I explain it in full ( Stressing the whole time about moving like you Will get picked ) most people do it without a problem.

For call outs during fixate - I will call out before fixate starts what marker to run to, then once someone gets fixated i will call out for everyone to break off and restack for the healers ( this seems to work the best for my group )

calling it out a little early gives everyone a few secs to ready themselves for the movement and less people panic and mess up.

Hope this helps some more Cheers

[Jotaux]

I see this so much in the 10m alt raid. In 25m you can have a lot of people gaming the mechanic by being close to thok so they are never picked. Throw those same people into 10m and laugh as they have no idea how to kite a boss that has been on farm in 25m since November.

We have a set kite path, and have the tanks position the jailer so he should be in the spot you want to be in for the next kite. When he picks a new person the jailer is moved to the next position. This lets us control where players are, and is nice for ground healing shit.

[Rosstafa]

Position your raid team on the side of the cage you intend to open first (we tend to go saurok > jinyu > yuangol). When second phase starts, everyone immediately starts moving away from the boss, and the melee and healers move towards the cage you intend to open, ready to nuke the jailor, and the ranged back up against the wall. Whoever gets fixated runs towards the middle of the room (obvious still staying out of range of Thok) and kites him either towards the entrance to the room from spoils, or the tesla coils by Thok's broken cage.

Ideally, anyone who gets fixated should just run into the centre of the room and kite Thok between these two points. Melee should be at the cages, and range should be close by on the same side of the room. If Thok walks past the melee or ranged groups as his fixate is about to finish, the groups should shift slightly down either end of the room to avoid him just turning around and fixating on someone right next to them.

Sometimes you'll get fixates 3 times in a row on 10 man, which obviously means they'll end up right at the very end of the room. Due to the way Thok selects who to fixate on, it's best for the person who was just fixated to run slightly towards Thok in between fixates. This reduces the likelihood of being selected another time.

[Notdev]

If you have enough throughput just tell everyone to zerg down the jailer and open up the cage asap. Tell your ranged not to worry about Thok DPS at all.
It isn't the best solution, but it's a solution.

It's also possible to force Thok to chase someone. If you are within a certain range of Thok and there is at least one person outside of a certain range of Thok, it guarantees you won't get fixated.

[Kaiten]

It's also possible to force Thok to chase someone. If you are within a certain range of Thok and there is at least one person outside of a certain range of Thok, it guarantees you won't get fixated.

This is horribly incorrect.

The mechanic for fixate is simple:

On 10man, Thok will choose a random target from the three furthest non-tanks within 150 yards. On 25-man, it's one of the six furthest non-tanks.

e: Reference https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...78167284822016

[Deleted]

Drop a marker at each prison. At the phase transition everyone run towards the first marker until fixate target is chosen then that person continues to the marker and rest drop to middle. Rest of the targets run to the next marker as close to the wall as possible. We normally send one person down the way you enter. Rinse and repeat. We do 25 but I imagine the tactic is still usable.

[GeekyNet]

Here are some RULES that you should provide to your raid team.

1) Whoever is fixated ALWAYS runs the boss through the middle of the room, REGARDLESS of whether people are there.
2) At no time should the fixated person try to move diagonally to avoid running the boss through someone.
3) At NO time should ANYONE ever be standing in the middle of the room (or hallway). This is the deathzone. If you die there, it's YOUR fault.
4) After the 2nd phase ALL raiders should be stacked on jailer so that they can be dispelled - UNLESS they have the ability to dispel themselves.
5) 1,000G donated to guild bank if you run Thok through the raid. No loot until you pay. < This rule right here fixed my old guild's habit of standing in fire on Heroic Nazgrim. Our worst culprit transformed into a raid-aware feral druid because he was broke and wouldn't be able to pay up.

Enjoy. If you state these rules and people follow them, you will NOT see any deaths from fixate.

[aziras]

A large amount of my raid-time in WotLK was with such a group. You would be surprised how hard some of the 10mans in LK was when you had 3-4 people completely unable to maintain raid awareness and run the right way when X happened. There was a large chunk of ICC this group never did until that fancy addon came out that could place colored zones all over the floor. Instant boss-kills, and somehow it managed to stick in their minds even after Blizzard found out how to block the addon from working.

No matter how you put it, it is not easy to tell your friends that they suck. To make it worse, any kind of consequence for screwing up is not going to help the overall mood in the raid group to stay up. My experience shows that these players are also the same that get tired of wiping quickest. So their focus snowballs very quickly on progression raids and once you have 2-3 wipes, you might as well call it a night because these guys will be playing at 50% of their already low ability.

While it is perhaps not helping your situation much, what I did after I gave up explaining instructions over and over actually worked: I made an alt-raid, invited only the good players, filled the gaps with other willing players (sometimes PUG'ing). Then blew through the instance on those alt-raid days. Eventually the bad players wanted to come along on the "other raid" (because in my case, they were the tourist types). We then let them come along one at a time, either with a horribly undergeared alt, or on their main when we could fill the main raid with someone else.
When you only have one of these players in a raid, two things happen magically:
1) The odds of RNG picking them for a chance of screwing up the raid is much lower.
2) When they are the only ones who make mistakes they tend to man up, focus more, and learn not to screw up.

Through this method, we got our bad raiders "trained" to not be as bad. Eventually clearing ICC10 before the buffs with a group that I never thought would have been capable of it. ICC10 was not that hard, but it was not trivial either when you only had 10m gear.

The thing with these players, especially in a "friends and family" guild is that they pull each other down. When they alternate screwing up, it suddenly becomes more acceptable to them and they have no motivation to "not be the suckiest player".

[FuxieDK]

Back when we were still raiding, we came up with a new tactic for Thok: At 98 stacks he simply dropped dead, and we never entered phase 2....
We aimed for 100 stacks, but it was impossible to maintain so low dps...

[Illana]

mark a healer and tell raid to stand on them during kite phase, it's normal and dpsing him while he's running should not be needed to meet enrage timer.

Make sure you're standing on top of where the jailer is tanked which corresponds to which door you are opening.

Remember when fixate phase starts you get a good 5 seconds to reposition the raid.