Removal of fel flame (what are we supposed to cast now?)

[Skayth]

I am laughing at how completely and utterly retarded celestalon is on anything warlock, to the point it has come to the point where I am nearly going to cry.... on how fucked we are.

They are refusing to listen to anything the community is telling them... to the point that it is blatant ignorance of "No, the community is wrong, Warlocks are fine. WARLOCK ARE FINE! /ignores everyone who doesnt agree."

[Jessicka]

Try again buddy. SW:P is a significant part of the shadow rotation, was never intended to be a spammable movement dps ability, and they have adjusted SW:P so it's no longer incentivized to spam.

It still has it's impact damage who's purpose is to allow it to be used to deal damage while moving, the same as Fel Flame - Fel Flame is similarly not intended to to be spammed continuously outside of that reasoning.

If you're really so ignorant as to think Fel Flame would be replacing anything in our stand-still rotation, then I suggest you actually read the thread properly, and read up on how Warlocks are actually played before contributing further to this thread.

[luckydevours]

Try again buddy. SW:P is a significant part of the shadow rotation, was never intended to be a spammable movement dps ability, and they have adjusted SW:P so it's no longer incentivized to spam.

Well, it does a small amount of instant damage and can be casted while moving if nothing else is available. Pretty much the same function as Fel Flame, yet its instant damage component remains and without snapshotting there are no negative repercussions for spamming it.

[Biruta]

Fel Flame removal is sad.. but Dark Soul at 2 charges is OP

Ok, funny mage... scorch is not op, instant frostfire bolt is not op, ice lance is not op, all cc u have is not op, blink removing any shit is not op, ice block is not op, instant living bomb is not op... only Dark Soul 2 charges is...

[Phoenexis]

Try again buddy. SW:P is a significant part of the shadow rotation, was never intended to be a spammable movement dps ability, and they have adjusted SW:P so it's no longer incentivized to spam.

Oh look, that's exactly what Fel Flame did! Try again buddy.

[Zathrendar]

Well here's what Celestalon has said:

Don't you feel that warlocks need fel flame back? To build up the last bit of an ember, demonology movement, affli dot refresh
We don't. It's a challenge, but toning down caster mobility is better for the game. Balance. (Celestalon)
Then why are you toning down only warlocks and shamans? Why are fire mages with scorch ok?
Scorch is primarily a movement tool; damage is trivial. Mobility is one way we differentiate specs. Like how Demo has high mobility (Celestalon)

What a tosser.

Not that I have an issue with Scorch, however how is it "primarily a movement tool", but not Fel Flame? What does a low grade spell that does trivial damage and aids in resource regen a bit do to upset "balance"?

I'm fine with them nerfing KJC... providing they don't then go and remove a rather tepid mobility spell.

CT really grates me the wrong way. He comes across as vapid and flippant.

[Nazmina]

It's really odd that destro went from a high movement spec to completely stationary turret, feels less like toning down and more like complete design philosophy change.

[Zathrendar]

Feels like they've put the watercooler boy in charge of answering player questions.

[Crisius]

Well here's what Celestalon has said

snipsnip

This is the reason I wrote the fire mage comparison on the previous page. He is just full of bull. Heck, ice floes by itself is arguably superior to the current iteration of kil'jaedens cunning, and that's just one of the vast array of movement abilities fire has readily available to them.

Scorch does comparable damage to what fel flame would on the beta, is castable on the move, grants a movement speed buff and can be used for fishing for crits. How is that different from the tiny resource-gain you get from fel flame, except obviously being superior due to the movement speed perk?

[Nazmina]

This is the reason I wrote the fire mage comparison on the previous page. He is just full of bull. Heck, ice floes by itself is arguably superior to the current iteration of kil'jaedens cunning, and that's just one of the vast array of movement abilities fire has readily available to them.

Scorch does comparable damage to what fel flame would on the beta, is castable on the move, grants a movement speed buff and can be used for fishing for crits. How is that different from the tiny resource-gain you get from fel flame, except obviously being superior due to the movement speed perk?

Essentially it because they had a design change, they decided destro will be turrets and mages will be a mobile traditional caster (compared to hunters which they consider to be a melee that attacks at range)

[Zathrendar]

This is the reason I wrote the fire mage comparison on the previous page. He is just full of bull. Heck, ice floes by itself is arguably superior to the current iteration of kil'jaedens cunning, and that's just one of the vast array of movement abilities fire has readily available to them.

Scorch does comparable damage to what fel flame would on the beta, is castable on the move, grants a movement speed buff and can be used for fishing for crits. How is that different from the tiny resource-gain you get from fel flame, except obviously being superior due to the movement speed perk?

I don't mind the idea of spec differentiation, but when their current design strategy is like pulling rabbits out of a hat, on a whim, it does annoy me to see destro, which was a high mobility, rapid cast spec, left without a rather useful mobility spell that has never been OP. Demo has never even been a high mobility spec outside of Metamorphosis, quite the opposite!

Essentially it because they had a design change, they decided destro will be turrets and mages will be a mobile traditional caster (compared to hunters which they consider to be a melee that attacks at range)

But fel flame didn't make destro that mobile. It just allowed the spec to avoid dps plummeting when you had to move, and to do some damage and keep dots up in PVP, if they weren't dispelled first. If you can't cast to generate resources, which mostly function to power the very turrety Chaos Bolt, you're screwed. Backdraft and Conflagrate aren't going to suffice, especially since you'll want to use Conflagrate strategically, since it is one of the few slows a destrolock has.

[Crisius]

Essentially it because they had a design change, they decided destro will be turrets and mages will be a mobile traditional caster (compared to hunters which they consider to be a melee that attacks at range)

You do realise that for this to be balanced out they'll have to tune destruction standstill DPS to ridiculous levels?

I'd rather enjoy skipping the frustration of getting cut off mid-cast every five seconds of a fight and do mediocre damage over hoping for the abilities not to target me so I can be 1337 on teh m3t3rs.

[Alanar]

Quite easy to do so, since shadow priests are allowed to retain their "Fel Flame" ability, which is Shadow Word: Pain.

This obviously doesn't make much sense, I can tell you even that they nerfed it this way procs no longer happen on the first hit.. which is like a regualr dot tick of 3 k at lvl 100 at this point.

can't realy compare it, but it's far from what you think sw: p does.

[Nazmina]

You do realise that for this to be balanced out they'll have to tune destruction standstill DPS to ridiculous levels?

I'd rather enjoy skipping the frustration of getting cut off mid-cast every five seconds of a fight and do mediocre damage over hoping for the abilities not to target me so I can be 1337 on teh m3t3rs.

I know, I presume they intend to make pets the goto movement dps for all specs. My issue is a bout feel, as a destro regardless of tuning or actually effectiveness of movement dps, either way you are going to be running around doing nothing, for me even felflame at 1 dmg (but no mana cost) would be better than jumping around in circles waiting for movement phase/ ability to end (new KJC not really sufficient)

[Zathrendar]

Would help if pets weren't so squishy, then, because if they move more damage to them, that'll be picked up by other classes quickly.

[Alanar]

What? You're not gonna admit how he perfectly prove how many more instant casts fire mages have available for them, thus making them capable of dishing out their rotation much more easily than warlocks? It's also even more retarded that as a Destro lock 2 of your 3 level 100 talents reduce your mobility by even further

Appearently I got infracted cus of what I said, but I see your point, but from what I see now is the overral view of warlock players at this point.

[Nazmina]

Would help if pets weren't so squishy, then, because if they move more damage to them, that'll be picked up by other classes quickly.

Well I meant PvE, come WoD I'm just gonna try and avoid pvp unless I massively out gear people.

[Phoenexis]

Essentially it because they had a design change, they decided destro will be turrets and mages will be a mobile traditional caster (compared to hunters which they consider to be a melee that attacks at range)

This shows how bad they are at balancing concepts.
SO basically mages get to be mobile casters which can get their casts off on the move right? Then why in hell do they have access to more gap openers and active defensive cooldowns than warlocks which have much less mobility and instant casts?
How does it make sense to give more CC and ways to get casts off to a class that has more instant and fast casts than one which has multiple spells taking more than 2 seconds to go off, huge ramp-up and barely any instant casts?

[fguru482]

And im just a shadow priest sitting here laughing at the whining about the removal of fel flame.

Were just creating awareness so they fix it.

[merli]

Noxxic is probably the biggest piece of garbage on the internet. Every log reporting site and raidbots (which takes data from log sites) has destro on top. The only ppl denying that fact are those that wish to mislead others.

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...14/60/default/
raidbots has destro with mages, warriors and rogues. Why is no one saying they are op too? Affliction seems to be the only spec who is completely op and Blizzard is changing this with WoD.
Would we also have this discussion if affliction wasn't so strong on farm fights? Destro is strong but there are other specs which are also strong.
But I agree. Noxxic isn't a good site to compare dps.

I really like fel flame for old content. At the moment I'm not using it for raids, because we still have KJC. Having a weak damage spell on the move wouldn't hurt or? I think casting fel flame 5x and we are oom anyway.