AotHG Nerf Official

[pay928]

Can someone run sim for Demonic? A lot of thanks

If you're choosing demonic, you've already chosen to be sub par. No sims needed when the talent choice lowers dps more than legendary choice.

[Gylen]

If you're choosing demonic, you've already chosen to be sub par. No sims needed when the talent choice lowers dps more than legendary choice.

What an incredibly useful reply.

Perhaps the reasoning behind playing Demonic is preference of play style, or even for other applications such as M+, for which it would be perfectly reasonable to want to maximize performance for these scenarios.

But, again, thank you for your fountain of knowledge.

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Firstly thanks for the sim of legendaries ranking. I am curious that is it the Sim also applicable for demonic? Thinking that belt may rank a bit lower because demonic build has no such strong opener as chaos blade.
Can someone run sim for Demonic? A lot of thanks

It's solid logic. In the same way Raddon's would also (obviously) be stronger for Demonic.

At the end of the day, we'll just have to do the same sim exercises to know for sure.

[Killface1]

I think a nerf sucks - it doesn't acknowledge the underlying problem of leveling three layers of RNG on a spec for its fury generation. The reason the ring is valuable is because its reliable fury that pads out your baseline fury. Demon hunters are extreme feast or famine, and the ring just made that famine a little less awful. Nerfing it wasn't the solution. Deleting it and making demon blades generate 60% of the fury but proc 100% of the time would have been a way better solution - we'd still be heavily crit reliant for fury, but we'd have fewer "welp, just wasted half my chaos blades because nothing procced and i had no fury" moments.

Like I have the ring, and I'd literally be fine with them deleting it. Not even turning it into a stat stick, just deleting the entire thing from my bag if they made some form of our fury generation reliable and static, rather than RNG based. Nerfing it is a major bummer. Its like "welp, 50% of the demon hunters out there have a shitty time with fury, lets bump it up to 100%"

[Shirofune]

I think a nerf sucks - it doesn't acknowledge the underlying problem of leveling three layers of RNG on a spec for its fury generation. The reason the ring is valuable is because its reliable fury that pads out your baseline fury. Demon hunters are extreme feast or famine, and the ring just made that famine a little less awful. Nerfing it wasn't the solution. Deleting it and making demon blades generate 60% of the fury but proc 100% of the time would have been a way better solution - we'd still be heavily crit reliant for fury, but we'd have fewer "welp, just wasted half my chaos blades because nothing procced and i had no fury" moments.

Like I have the ring, and I'd literally be fine with them deleting it. Not even turning it into a stat stick, just deleting the entire thing from my bag if they made some form of our fury generation reliable and static, rather than RNG based. Nerfing it is a major bummer. Its like "welp, 50% of the demon hunters out there have a shitty time with fury, lets bump it up to 100%"

The thing is Blizzard still somehow wants people not to play DBlades, and keeps nerfing it.

What they don't realize is that by doing so the spec loses the most valuable aspect it has, its burst. Also, DBite fury generation is garbage compared to DBlades, just by the fact DBlades can proc twice of an AA, DBite can only generate fury once per GCD.

[Killface1]

Yeah I dont really get it. Fury generating off of autoattacks and being refunded or increased by a few abilities seems like pretty standard blizzard "energy bar" usage. It works well in other classes, donno why they're so against it for demon hunters.

[Svisalith]

Firstly thanks for the sim of legendaries ranking. I am curious that is it the Sim also applicable for demonic? Thinking that belt may rank a bit lower because demonic build has no such strong opener as chaos blade.
Can someone run sim for Demonic? A lot of thanks

Belt is bad for Demonic because of the way that the damage is laid out (constant medium damage instead of very high burst and low sustained)

[Deleted]

The thing is Blizzard still somehow wants people not to play DBlades, and keeps nerfing it.

What they don't realize is that by doing so the spec loses the most valuable aspect it has, its burst. Also, DBite fury generation is garbage compared to DBlades, just by the fact DBlades can proc twice of an AA, DBite can only generate fury once per GCD.

Just wanna adda note that Dblades can even proc 4 times :v other then that, fully agree what was said here

[Deleted]

Even with ring and 4pc I'm getting dry spots where I have nothing to do. What the fuck is Blizzard thinking?
Just fucking remove the ring and fix the fury generation already.

[HeiAggra]

Even with ring and 4pc I'm getting dry spots where I have nothing to do. What the fuck is Blizzard thinking?
Just fucking remove the ring and fix the fury generation already.

The ring is fine should feel like a upgrade i would be happy if the fix the fury generation and leave the ring add 1-4 just to spice a bit!

[Deleted]

But legendaries arent supposed to fix things. They should be a bonus.

What about something like "5-8 fury but abilitues deal 5% less damage"?

The problem with that legendary isnt gameplaywise. The problem is the massive power increase it gives that definitely is out of line. The ring was after dk helmet the strongest dps legendary ingame and one legendary shouldnt be a 10% dps upgrade over a bad legendary.

I dont have the ring so i am absoutely sure: legendaries arent suppoded to fix things, they should offer a small bonus or different playstyle.

Even after the nerf i want that ring and it is still too strong.

[Deleted]

I don't agree that the ring is too strong. I think our rotation is too fucked and the ring simply fixes it.
Fix the fury generation so that it's at least a bit predictable / influenced by player choice and then the ring will cease to be such a big boost.

Give ANY class resource-generating problems (mana, rage, you name it) and then give them a legendary that fixes said problem. Is that legendary too strong? Or is the bigger problem the fact that regen mechanic completely fucked?

I have times when I am capped and overflowing on Fury, just BD-ing and Chaos Striking non-stop. Depending on a coin-flip (50% crit chance) I can end up wasting a ton of fury and I end up thinking:
What is even the point of this ring?

And other times in Meta + BL where I'm fury-starved and I end up thinking:
What is even the point of this ring? Also I would love a Fury Potion right about now, why is this not a thing?

Nerfing the ring is not the solution. Hopefully before ToS in 7.2.5 they rework fury generation somewhat so that the ring doesn't feel needed anymore.

[lolskillzz]

Nerfing the ring is not the solution. Hopefully before ToS in 7.2.5 they rework fury generation somewhat so that the ring doesn't feel needed anymore.

They just need to make demonblades fury gen static or just buff prep to be better (as it should be since even blizz has stated they believe active more challenging talents should out perform passive easier ones when used properly.)

The ring is only an issue because it is so good with dblades.

[razkah]

I actually love the mechanic of the class (I don't have the ring). Playing the Fury bar properly and having to make decisions every GCD is what it's about for me, and that particular effect is achieved by the heavy RNG.

Being starved or overcapping occasionally is fine in my mind too. Gotta keep doing the right decisions even in shitty situations - I like that. (I do however agree that the difference in OUTPUT that RNG makes has to be smaller. The difference between your best pull and worst pull should not be that big.)

The ring is just a badly designed item. It makes you have to play the specs mechanic LESS, on top of just being super hard to balance.

[Deleted]

I don't agree that the ring is too strong. I think our rotation is too fucked and the ring simply fixes it.
Fix the fury generation so that it's at least a bit predictable / influenced by player choice and then the ring will cease to be such a big boost.

Give ANY class resource-generating problems (mana, rage, you name it) and then give them a legendary that fixes said problem. Is that legendary too strong? Or is the bigger problem the fact that regen mechanic completely fucked?

I have times when I am capped and overflowing on Fury, just BD-ing and Chaos Striking non-stop. Depending on a coin-flip (50% crit chance) I can end up wasting a ton of fury and I end up thinking:
What is even the point of this ring?

And other times in Meta + BL where I'm fury-starved and I end up thinking:
What is even the point of this ring? Also I would love a Fury Potion right about now, why is this not a thing?

Nerfing the ring is not the solution. Hopefully before ToS in 7.2.5 they rework fury generation somewhat so that the ring doesn't feel needed anymore.

Based on what?

Sims show the ring to be still BIS by some margin even AFTER the nerf. Before the nerf, it was insane.

Nerfing the ring is the solution to balance legendaries. It was never supposed to fix things. And it is NEVER a solution to fix things through legendaries. Because not everyone has them...

And the problem here is: everyone withput the ring is currently fucked up. And because of the ring still being so strong, they still are after nerf. But at least not as much as now.

[Deleted]

They already said that they are bringing the strongest legys in line with the others, so the nerf was not surprising. I have only been surprised cause it's only ~22%, not more.
On live the ring is an increase of ~30k to my actual setup (Prydaz + Shoulders) - it's completely insane.

And i don't agree to add the fury gen to Demon Blades. It's simple: it just have to procc more regularly, then everything is fine for all of us. The main problem is:
Using Meta, doing 3 CB, then waiting for procs (or Fel Blade) 10 seconds, maybe doing a bit Bladedance to fill, throw Glaive, waiting for proccs.... THIS is what sucks.
If everything is good I do 750k dps, if not 600k at the end of a fight. That's the really insane thing.

[Deleted]

They already said that they are bringing the strongest legys in line with the others, so the nerf was not surprising. I have only been surprised cause it's only ~22%, not more.
On live the ring is an increase of ~30k to my actual setup (Prydaz + Shoulders) - it's completely insane.

And i don't agree to add the fury gen to Demon Blades. It's simple: it just have to procc more regularly, then everything is fine for all of us. The main problem is:
Using Meta, doing 3 CB, then waiting for procs (or Fel Blade) 10 seconds, maybe doing a bit Bladedance to fill, throw Glaive, waiting for proccs.... THIS is what sucks.
If everything is good I do 750k dps, if not 600k at the end of a fight. That's the really insane thing.

I am not against changes. I am against the ring being to supposed to fix things because of the power level it provides. And even if i got the ring today my point stands.

The ring provides too much power and still does even after the nerf.

[VooDsXo]

Yeah I dont really get it. Fury generating off of autoattacks and being refunded or increased by a few abilities seems like pretty standard blizzard "energy bar" usage. It works well in other classes, donno why they're so against it for demon hunters.

We don't have generation anywhere near most classes, save maybe wotlk/cast feral druid w/ no gear. Similar problems have happened to rogues and warriors but gear solved the issue. When warriors needed a ton of crit, they ended up needing to burn fury. Our fury generation atm is fairly static, with a very linear climb from 800-900 item level, where as it should be a bit steeper, as it is pointless if our abilities do more damage but we can't use them.

As a ring holder, I would say it isn't the ring that needs to be fixed. The other talent choices need to be more appealing, and the ring needs to not feel mandatory. It should be a large increase, or sought after item it is a legendary.

[Deleted]

More fury -> more damage. And if the damage increase is too big (it is as every sim indicates) then the ring has to be fixed.

The question here is: is the nerf justified? And the sims indicate: yes and the ring would be even at 1-5 fine.

If you wanna have a faster playstyle, ask for it. But thats not an issue to be fixed by an masdively overpowered legendary.

[Paicu91]

Screw you blizzard, I just got the ring.

[Deleted]

Based on what?

Sims show the ring to be still BIS by some margin even AFTER the nerf. Before the nerf, it was insane.

Nerfing the ring is the solution to balance legendaries. It was never supposed to fix things. And it is NEVER a solution to fix things through legendaries. Because not everyone has them...

And the problem here is: everyone withput the ring is currently fucked up. And because of the ring still being so strong, they still are after nerf. But at least not as much as now.

You said it yourself, everyone without the ring is fucked up. Is the solution to nerf the ring and fuck up everyone? Or to fix fury generation so that the added one from the ring isn't that important?