Social Guild

[kamuimac]

i had an idea of creating a website to train and teach new socials and new players for end game raiding would that be good idea ? what do u guys think

that site already existed - and its still existing - its called openraid - sadly blizzard killed it in WoD by introducing lfg just when it was started to get popular.

in the end of MoP there were ton of runs organized exackly for new players to teach them in the site.

[Osmeric]

If you want a casual guild to raid, you need to jump into normal at the start of the tier when the gear is relevant.

If they can't begin to handle that then it's not going to work out. If they can, there's hope their skills can be honed to do heroic, although some will likely not be able to and have to be benched on your progression bosses.

You might just consider moving your "raiding main" to a more serious (but not hardcore) guild.

[Deleted]

We transitioned from HC only to Mythic raiding a couple of months into ToS, so slightly different - but something which surprised me is that we had people who would show up to HC/Normal raids every day of the week we asked, then as soon as the M-bomb was dropped they were just not interested.

These people usually underperformed in heroic, and were really reluctant to take on the advice of stronger players - rarely used the correct addons and always parsed in the grey/greens for fights that we had on farm for months and months. Not only did they not show up for raids, but once we transitioned into Mythic they stopped logging in completely... (or moved to another guild). After 12 years of WoW I assumed that everybody naturally aims to raid the highest level of content, but I think that's inaccurate based on our experiences in ToS.

Having only 8 people sign up to what SHOULD have been an exciting new venture for the guild is probably quite telling. I'd suggest maintaining a social connection to the guild, and starting a fresh guild elsewhere. You can always dip into the playerbase from the social guild if absolutely required - but take those eight people, do a bit of recruitment and take it from there. Recruiting for that level of content, at this stage in the expansion will be tough... but you only need 10 to make a start. You have a few weeks before Antorus, so if you can at least establish 10 reliable players of ANY skill/gear level - you're in a great place to start fresh.

[Osmeric]

After 12 years of WoW I assumed that everybody naturally aims to raid the highest level of content, but I think that's inaccurate based on our experiences in ToS.

It's also obviously wrong if you look at raiding stats. Even among players who raid, the vast majority don't do Mythic.

[Deleted]

It's also obviously wrong if you look at raiding stats. Even among players who raid, the vast majority don't do Mythic.

Indeed, but the statistics don't tell you how many people WANT to raid Mythic. Our Guild didn't intentionally avoid Mythic at any stage in its history, we just didn't have the manpower for it - only in ToS can we reliably attend with a consistent group of 20 people. I was legitimately surprised when a handful of people showed zero interest, to the point of leaving/quitting once we stepped up.

Similar situation to what the OP is potentially going through which is why I mentioned it, he may have a pool of many people within his social guild - but only 8 people signing up for the debut raid is telling!

[Osmeric]

Indeed, but the statistics don't tell you how many people WANT to raid Mythic

Actually, they pretty much do. If people wanted to do mythic, they'd find a way to do it, mostly. If they didn't have the give-a-damn to work through the obstacles preventing them from doing mythic, they weren't going to have the persistence and drive to do mythic anyway.

I'll add that most people don't even have the skill to do mythic. There's a large range in skills, and mythic raiders often don't comprehend just how wide the distribution is. Blue posters on the official forums have commented on this. Those players you lost were not cut out for mythic, and knew it.

[Marrilaife]

I was legitimately surprised when a handful of people showed zero interest, to the point of leaving/quitting once we stepped up.

Why would you be surprised though, for people who find heroic challenging, mythic would be way too stressful, the rewards at the moment are extremely small over heroic, while the organizational and coordination hurdles are fairly significant. Mythic is good for people who find heroic easy and boring, and care about the challenge (some people don't, they just want best reward to effort ratio which is best achievable in low effort content).

But for example the fact you need exactly 20 people for mythic is a scare for many people who dread the idea they might be benched, and not even because they "suck" but because you have 21 people online while you need only 20. Bench drama is quite often occurrent even in mythic guilds, where bench is a norm and not something just popped out because you upscaled from heroic.

Mythic also often means master looter over personal and loot going to the best performers / highest attendance members over other people, casuals who want to keep their freedom with flex attendance might have big issues with that. People who perform on the low side, might be scared of not getting any loot, or getting the bench, or being completely cut from the team once suitable replacement is recruited.

For many people they don't want to go full serious about "a game" and for them mythic is something they rather not bother with. It's quite understandable.

[krl]

For many people they don't want to go full serious about "a game" and for them mythic is something they rather not bother with. It's quite understandable.

I globally agree, though imho there should be ingame incentives to do the highest content. Like, remove TF or something.
This way, people lacking confidence would try it anyway out of ambition/greed/whatever, and maybe like it or realize they can do it.

[Marrilaife]

I globally agree, though imho there should be ingame incentives to do the highest content.

I would like that, sure, but if it's easier to get these subs and people's /played up by just making them regrind the same trivial content instead of nudging them to "step up", and that's why we have gameplay systems in Legion as we have. They don't care about people's skill, they care about their "monthly active user hours", and that's easier achievable by telling people it's worth to regrind the same WQ / LFR (through TF, AP and legendary BLP) than asking them to become more skilled and dedicated which many can't or don't care to. Mythic only exists because there is a portion of the playerbase who would be so bored without it they'd probably stop bothering with WOW altogether and if mythic can be upkept with small devs' effort then it's better to keep that portion of the playerbase in.

What would help mythic more is not "remove titanforge" but things like merging low pop servers (it's extremely hard to recruit into guilds on low pop realms) and more gradual progression (stop making 400-600 pull bosses, make instead 3 100-200 pull bosses so people don't feel brickwalled). Things like not going crazy with the consumable market like during the beginning of Legion would be a welcome addition too (now it's ok, but let's see how the next expansion starts...), gems, enchants and flasks are fine but things like pots and augment runes are not, because they discourage people from going into "high wipe" content. Nice reward for a mythic endboss would be a cherry on top.

[Trend]

Actually, they pretty much do. If people wanted to do mythic, they'd find a way to do it, mostly. If they didn't have the give-a-damn to work through the obstacles preventing them from doing mythic, they weren't going to have the persistence and drive to do mythic anyway.

Actually, they don't at all. You're making a lot of assumptions and injecting your opinion. You are also confusing people who want to raid mythic with people who want to raid mythic to the point they will put a ton of effort into researching raid fits, quit their guilds, leave their friends, transfer servers, go through N weeks of trials, etc, etc, etc. Not everyone who wants to raid mythic is willing to do all the things it would take to make it happen. That they are not willing to do all of those things is no proof that they could not or would not do mythic raiding if the path was less costly.

I agree that a lot of heroic raiders don't want to raid mythic, but it would be conjecture on my part to make any kind of guess about what percentage of the heroic raiding population that would be.

[ONCHEhap]

Demand crucial addons. This is one of the most important things.
Everyone must use DBM and GTFO. When I was raid leader early expansion I had to deal with many people who hated GTFO, they claimed it was obnoxious and loud LOL. This one bitch showed me right away who the mouth breathers were. The tough thing is that those who take no responsibility to improve need to be replaced and this can put a lot of strain on a social guild. The rest of the raiders who actually give a damn should not be punished for the ultra casuals who cannot be bothered to try.

Ask that people watch youtube vids on boss mechanics as well.

I'd recommend NOT using GTFO,it makes people rely on an addon and they end up not being able to think for themselves.

[RoKPaNda]

My main and a couple alts are in a very successful Mythic raiding guild, but when progress is done or I'm just playing during off hours I have a couple alts in a very casual social guild on another server. Last tier they decided that they wanted to jump into raiding and they successfully cleared Normal NH, only made it past the first six or so bosses in Heroic NH. ToS Normal was a total clusterfuck for them. If you're not fielding enough members in the guild, pug. Pugs are clearing Heroic every day and if you're in a casual guild PUGs *WILL* carry you a bit. It's not the days of old where pugs were absolute dogshit even compared to a casual guild, pugs are kicking your ass right now. If anyone doesn't want to invite pugs, kick them. Pugs will help you.

Use DBM or Big Wigs. Google quick and dirty guides for ToS. Have a designated raid leader even for normal. You'll get there. And most importantly, recruit. If you can't field enough guildies, pug in the short term but recruit for the long term. You'll probably get a fairly high turnover as you find people that are compatible with your existing group and you're probably going to irritate some existing members, but keep at it.