Why WoW: Classic Needs the Tweaks.

[Harbour]

Reasons Why Classic WoW was so great and lovable:

1) EXTREMELY REWARDING GAMEPLAY.
-Moneys were earned with the blood and sweat. The more enjoyment we got when we earn the gold.
-Profession were harder to level. The more enjoyment we got when we craft some good items for themselves or auction.
-Items were harder to get. The more enjoyment we got when we get some items from dungeons and professions.
-Dungeons and Raids were harder. The reward we got from bosses felt much more valuable.
-Quests were harder and required more time to do. The more we enjoy their completing and reward.
-Exploring. Hard content, professions and quests motivated us to explore the world which was greatly designed.
-Spell Design. The different level of spells was highly required for an effective healing. That made the class gameplay more interesting and flexible.

2)Focus on socialization.
-No LFG and LFR. People spend their time in chat finding people to do dungeons and raids.
-Hard quests and mobs that required more than 1-2 people to do them and kill them. That allows people to communicate more often and even create bonds.
-Leveling was slower that allows people to spend more time together during questing.
-WPvP was more rough. That makes people to group up and help each other.
-Profession were done the way people needed each other to craft some items or enchant them.
-Raids and Dungeons required communication. Crowd Control required the better coordination.

3)Sense of Progression.
-Talent tree allow people to spent 1 point of talent for 1 level. It makes every level felt earned and rewarded.
-Every new item we earned in dungeon or hard crafting made us significantly stronger.

4)Immersion.
-World Building was great. Location design, visual and music were and are top level.
-Quests had no map markings. That made us read the text and THINK where to go to do the quests.
-Leveling design was done the way that dont make people rush forward. We felt comfortable to do stuff slowly.
-Process > Result. WoW Classic had great pacing. Reaching the cap wasn't the main goal. That allow us to enjoy crafting, gathering, fishing, exploring, trash talking in the inn, do dungeons with friends and stuff.

Thats what made WoW Classic great and THATS WHY we always wanted Blizzard to bring us the Legacy servers.


Now, about the things that has nothing to do with WoW Classic Greatness:

-2004 yo settings. WoW Classic still looks very good and comfortable to stay in. So as do Legion. There are no reasons to not have the update graphic options. Be honest - the water textures until Cata looked really bad. As do cubic trees and bushes.

-Old Models. Left old models the same BUT add an option to use an updated models. Many people including me enjoy old models but there are also many people who liked Classic but prefer the updated models. Why not to do the thing that has nothing to do with WoW Classic greatness?

-Class Balance. I saw no one said: "You know, WoW Classic was great. Paladins were healbots who do shit in other specs, no one wanted Druids even if they went full Restoration, and Arcane mages sucked hard". I saw many people said: "Wow Classic was great because the content felt more rewarding and people communicated with each other much better".
So, there is NO sane reason to keep the Class Balance the same as it was in 2005. There are many people who loved Classic and played feral druids, retri pallies, enhancement shamans without Sulfuras. Why not to make them slightly happier? Did their utter shittiness make WoW Classic great? Absolutely no.
Blizzard should make all class specs playable. Im not asking for global changes like totally new spells and talents. Im asking for numbers tweaks and some changes of talent mechanic for some of the specs to make them competitive.

-Few small interface flaws. I want to see how much hp my teammates or enemy has without Xpearl. That doesnt ruin the gameplay but gives an essential comfort to gameplay.

The things i mentioned above are an essential updates Blizzard need to make in order to make WoW Classic THE SAME but BETTER.

[Azadina]

Blizzard should make all class specs playable.

So, in short, you want the Wotlk version of the game, not Vanilla. Making all specs relatively competitive was Wotlk design philosophy and goal.

[dwarven]

So, in short, you want the Wotlk version of the game, not Vanilla. Making all specs relatively competitive was Wotlk design philosophy and goal.

With current WoW science, leaving the imbalance in the game would lead to tremendous class imbalances. There would only be a few classes "viable" for raids. This is why I think class balance should be addressed in Vanilla. They should at least tweak the numbers, but keep abilities the same. People played a wide variety of classes in the 2004 version simply because they didn't know any better.

[Nitros14]

Once you make one change to "improve" classic, why not make another? And another? Suddenly it's not classic anymore.

[Deleted]

That's not true, u only have to see Nost or Elysium to find out that u are not telling the true. I saw bears, shadow priest, ret paladins, boomkins, cats, elemental shamans...i saw it with my eyes.

NOW WE KNOW THE CLASSES, now we know that is possible to do it cause we know the game much more better, and we have 1000000000 more info.

So don't lie

[Azadina]

With current WoW science, this would lead to tremendous class imbalances. There would only be a few classes "viable" for raids. This is why I think class balance should be addressed in Vanilla. They should at least tweak the numbers, but keep abilities the same. People played a wide variety of classes in the 2004 version simply because they didn't know any better.

Item stats on non-tier or tier loot didn't swap to something else when changing to another spec out of your dual spec.

The point? Tier stuff especially was designed for single spec in mind for your class. So you'd need to screw with all gears too, or the specs still won't be viable, as they have no gear designed for them, unlike the specs that do have. So now you are asking tier system out of BC, while wanting class balance out of Wotlk. Is that vanilla in your mind?

[Bigbazz]

For the most part all specs were viable in TBC already, at least by the end of TBC. The 2.4.3 patch that popular private servers run already has raids full of almost every spec. MM hunters, mutilate rogues, frost mages and disc priests aren't popular but everything else is a mainstay. Ferals can tank while also pulling out really decent cat dps on single target with a gear switch, Ret Paladins are pulling strong numbers and desired for their buffs etc.

But in Vanilla, this was not a thing and if people want a genuine experience it has to remain that way.. Fact is that fairly balanced PVE with most specs viable and useful did not arrive until mid-late TBC, changing that to keep people happy would be tainting the authenticity of the experience.

[Harbour]

So, in short, you want the Wotlk version of the game, not Vanilla. Making all specs relatively competitive was Wotlk design philosophy and goal.

Classic with balanced classes isn't WotLK or TBC, like, at all. All key points of Classic WoW were loosened in TBC and even more so in WotlK. Even TBC totally ruined Classic experience due to making Classic high-end content absolutely pointless and blowing up the cap level wall.

Once you make one change to "improve" classic, why not make another? And another? Suddenly it's not classic anymore.

Because there is no need to make "another". I explained everything in OP. Things that has everything to do with Classic Greatness should be kept, but the things that nothing to do do with the Classic Greatness should be tweaked or updated.

That's not true, u only have to see Nost or Elysium to find out that u are not telling the true. I saw bears, shadow priest, ret paladins, boomkins, cats, elemental shamans...i saw it with my eyes.

NOW WE KNOW THE CLASSES, now we know that is possible to do it cause we know the game much more better, and we have 1000000000 more info.

So don't lie

Yeah, i saw them too. It doesnt change the fact that all of them became more and more undesirable with the level growth.

[Azadina]

Classic with balanced classes isn't WotLK or TBC, like, at all. All key points of Classic WoW were loosened in TBC and even more so in WotlK. Even TBC totally ruined Classic experience due to making Classic high-end content absolutely pointless and blowing up the cap level wall.

Balancing all specs also isn't Vanilla like, at all.

Adding Blood elves and Draenei from BC would change the game less, than what you suggest.

[Harbour]

Balancing all specs also isn't Vanilla like, at all.

Adding Blood elves and Draenei from BC would change the game less, than what you suggest.

Explain me how then. I see no influence of better balanced specs on all the the components i mentioned in OP. Balanced specs dont break the rewarding experience, dont break the socialization, dont break the sense of progression and immersion.
Well MAYBE there are some people who's best WoW Classic experience was the leveling of discipline priest or balance druid with survival hunt, and they want it back because of that. But i still guess the most people wanted Vanilla back because of rewarding content and great immersion.

[Azadina]

Explain me how then. I see no influence of better balanced specs on all the the components i mentioned in OP. Balanced specs dont break the rewarding experience, dont break the socialization, dont break the sense of progression and immersion.
Well MAYBE there are some people who's best WoW Classic experience was the leveling of discipline priest or balance druid with survival hunt, and they want it back because of that.

I don't see the relevance of your last point. There were no specs that absolutely could not level to 60. So it's irrelevant, you can still level as disc, invite auto attack paladin and arcane mage to level together.

Balancing the specs does break the experience. It was not there. If you want that, then I shall demand garrisons, transmog, have group will travel teleport back, lootbox legendaries, and range of other random stuff, while claiming they don't hurt either.

Also, why would I need to explain why you felt that balanced specs have no influence, and thus did not include it in your points? The answer why would be your bias towards that, since it was your writing to include it, but for whatever reason chose not to.

[Thatfire]

I completely agree that some QoL changes should be added that do not affect the way Vanilla/Classic wow was played. Class balance or just some number tweeks will not make the game any different other than bringing in more players that don't want to be a warrior if you want to tank, if you are a dps can play more than 1 spec, or if you are a healing class you can actually spec differently than just to heal. It does not change the game what so ever other than involving more people.

I am completely against any QoL change that destroys any way that Vanilla WoW was played. NO flying mounts, NO dungeon finder that teleports you to dungeons, NO changing the speccing of characters from trees to this current form that is an abomination of rpg's and might as well call it Diablo 3 Speccing, NO changing of leveling pace, NO change to currency, NO change to getting mounts. These are a lot of examples of things that would completely change the way WoW was played so I am against changing any of these things 100%.

Now making changes to some professions to make them more viable I wouldn't mind. Also Making dual specs or making respeccing cost 10 gold so you don't go broke if you PvP because you have to raid to PvP in Vanilla. I also wouldn't mind the honor system to be changed so you don't have to have no life or 2 people playing 1 account to reach Grand Marshal.

I wouldn't mind seeing a LFG tool like what they had for BC. All it did was list you for certain dungeons/raids and show your level and class. Nothing else. Didn't teleport you. Didn't select your group for you. Just showed that you are interested and willing to do listed content.

[Eapoe]

In all honesty, everyone clamoring for classic/vanilla WoW should just get the last patch of vanilla and be happy with it. People that have begged, asked, and demanded for it talk about how great it is/was. Suddenly they want "improvements." No. That's not the classic WoW that people kept saying is amazing and people will flock to.

[Heathy]

I think ppl are always disingenuous about how viable specs were, sure feral druids weren't that useful and boomkins didn't stack that well, and warriors were mostly tanks, but ppl did play those specs, I'm almost certain there was at least one person playing one of these 'broken' specs in my old 40s. we had arms warriors, ret and prot pala, maybe 1 boomkin.

its a completely different balancing structure for class and raid composition, if you were a druid you could innervate so you did what you could until someone needed innervate, if you were a dps you did dps, if you were a pala you buffed and filled with heals, if you were a priest you (mostly) healed, although shadow priests did exist and brang something unique, nearly every class brang something unique but each class did one thing better and one role stacked better than other roles. that could just end up being the permanent and fundamental problem with the almost D&D class structure back then before homogenization each class brought something and you were just happy with that not being top on dps just being there and contributing what your class can do. mentality is entirely different now, since tbc everyone wanted to be 100% viable no matter what spec and that is bc where classes stacked better, any healer was viable and could compete with priests dps classes had more cross class competition etc.

[MMKing]

Rogue, Mage and Warlocks = Primary DPS class
Hunter and Warrior = secondary DPS class.

Due to some extremely powerful warrior items. Such as the 1H epic hammer from BRD last boss, and the epic dagger in UBRS. Extremely dedicated warriors can seriously compete for the number 1 DPS spot.

Shadow priests are viable provided you run 5-6 warlocks, as they do allow an increase to shadow damage for the entire raid.
Feral druids seem viable on paper with not too terrible damage, infinite sustain with energy and they provide 5% crit chance. However, they share loot with rogue.
Boomkin is even worse than Feral, though you do provide 5% spell crit. There is quite literally no sustain, and your innervate is for the healers.

You want someone to use nightfall to keep the spell damage bonus up, which is usually a warrior spamming the hamstring ability as it does proc on hit effects. But your Nightfall player could be a paladin, using primarily seal of the crusader for attack speed, cleanse to cure the raid and flash of light with a swing timer addon. With some clever macros, you can essentially do around 35-40% of the healing other paladins do, and in cleanse intensive fights you cleanse 24/7 and don't heal. Allowing your other paladins to heal instead of cleansing. Paladins can also use judgement of wisdom, though this does not have to be applied by a ''dps paladin'', but it helps as your proper healer paladins don't have to apply this.

Paladin is however not a DPS class at all. Not even in Naxxramas where you can use exorcism, do you do any real damage as you will struggle with sustaining your mana pool.

[Dhrizzle]

So, in short, you want the Wotlk version of the game, not Vanilla. Making all specs relatively competitive was Wotlk design philosophy and goal.

Really it was TBC that cemented every spec as one of the trinity. Gear scaling and harder content relegated hybrids to more of a support role but for heroics and early raids most specs were viable for their role.

[Deleted]

I'm sitting here trying to come up with some constructive feedback about why rebalancing classes is a bad idea but im struggling really hard since what you're saying is retarded in itself. You're essentially SPITTING REAL FUCKING HARD on your 4 points of "Reasons Why Classic WoW was so great and lovable:" with that kinda bullshit you're spewing.

LEAVE IT AS IT IS, END OF STORY.

[AeneasBK]

Rogue, Mage and Warrior = Primary DPS class
Hunter and Warlock = secondary DPS class.

Let's be realistic here

[Deletedaccount1]

Once you make one change to "improve" classic, why not make another? And another? Suddenly it's not classic anymore.

This is what I'm worried about. Just don't open Pandora's box at all in my opinion.

[Charmoore]

I hope they keep QOL updates like collections. Having to keep pets/ mounts in bags was annoying.
yes: keyring, attunements and rare recipe hunting

things to tweak: maybe and effort to award loot to the proper place composition. (getting pally gear in a horde raid cute, but annoying.)
: tokens for everything bags full of zandalar rep items, quiraji scarabs etc... (no one wants thinks bag management is a nostalgia feature.)

I think the updated architecture for races should stay they have there own identity. you have to think that vision for the game was fair, but current to use assets to make the world complete would make it nice.

I know the "hardcores" will want things exactly the same (original sylvanas model) but you'd alienate people that want to have those nostalgic experience. you have to figure that the market Blizz wants isn't 30 year olds that want to play but people that want to join and see "what all the hype is all about".