I don't think people realize how easy the raids will actually be.

[Deletedaccount1]

The competition in vanilla now is how fast you can clear a raid not who does clears it first.

[Crushkid12]

The reality of it is that it will highly depend on what patch the game runs in. If they decide to simulate the beginning of vanilla with patches then progress will take far longer. However if they say use 1.12 then classes and certain items in general will be more powerful. While I think there will be a portion of players who will clear these raids super fast (like these people who've been raiding these classic raids for like 5+ years now) I think for the majority of the player base the raids will still take a decent amount of time to progress through due to the gearing and such in vanilla. If Classic recreates the vanilla experience using 1.12 it will automatically make the game far easier since everything is so much more powerful in that patch.
Chances are Blizzard will adjust things accordingly depending on how they tune the game.

[Enthralled]

Except that when my guild started it we were literally what I described, mostly blue dungeon geared with 20-25 of the players actually knowing what the fuck to do.

Oh, I see -- in the post quoted above, you were counting a full 40-man raid as a 10-man because 30 players weren't performing up to par? I still shake my head "no" at what you said. The private server pros will come in and roflstomp MC very early with fully-contributing 40-mans, some of still wearing greens when going in. But not within 10 days of the server opening.

And there's one more thing that I haven't seen suggested. I wouldn't be surprised to see Blizzard tune the difficulties of the raids a bit tighter in order to compensate for the higher levels of skill and knowledge that modern players have.

[Hawg]

Ragnaros took so long to kill because it took months to level, especially in those early days.

On my paladin I exhausted all meaningful quest content by half way to level 58 and had to literally grind 2.5 levels on slimes and bats in Eastern Plaguelands to hit cap. :-(

Oh yes, I forgot about the pain of killing random mobs for the last few levels, ahhh the memories lol

I think the "taking a long time to level" was certainly part of why it took so long for most guilds to kill Ragnaros, but for the likes of Ascent who got the world first, it wasn't as much of a roadblock to progress as was the fact that getting geared, attuned, and the fight itself were so difficult.

[deniter]

Anyone talking about raid difficulty based on first hand experience on some private server should have a reality check. None of the existing private server emulates the real vanilla WoW properly. I've spent time on the 2-3 most popular servers of lately and the dungeons are under-tuned a lot, putting it mildly. Elite mobs hit like wet noodles and several mechanics are broken or don't work at all.

Lets just wait how Blizzard does it and speculate later about difficulty.

[Enthralled]

Anyone talking about raid difficulty based on first hand experience on some private server should have a reality check. None of the existing private server emulates the real vanilla WoW properly. I've spent time on the 2-3 most popular servers of lately and the dungeons are under-tuned a lot, putting it mildly. Elite mobs hit like wet noodles and several mechanics are broken or don't work at all.

Lets just wait how Blizzard does it and speculate later about difficulty.

/10 chars

[Tarx]

I don't think the only who meters is how good players are today. But the think you have to equip the right gear and have to be well prepaired . That means potions and food and arrows that you have to farm them hours before you use them .

[kamuimac]

Anyone talking about raid difficulty based on first hand experience on some private server should have a reality check. None of the existing private server emulates the real vanilla WoW properly. I've spent time on the 2-3 most popular servers of lately and the dungeons are under-tuned a lot, putting it mildly. Elite mobs hit like wet noodles and several mechanics are broken or don't work at all.

Lets just wait how Blizzard does it and speculate later about difficulty.

and i bet it wasnt the dungeons being undertuned only people knowing wtf they were doin unlike in vanilla .

people now have skills miles above what they had in vanilla - people know what to do - thats why they were so easy.

ton of people will be very heavily dissponinted - but its a good thing - finally they wil shut up about how vanilla was real rpg experience

[Solitare-sp]

and i bet it wasnt the dungeons being undertuned only people knowing wtf they were doin unlike in vanilla .

people now have skills miles above what they had in vanilla - people know what to do - thats why they were so easy.

ton of people will be very heavily dissponinted - but its a good thing - finally they wil shut up about how vanilla was real rpg experience

I think you'll be surprised. Yes the mechanics were easier, but the work and prep needed for raids was much higher. Food, Pots, Buffs, and just access to gear make it a very different beast.

Not to mention grouping up 40 people and organising them correctly.

[Deleted]

That's not true because, for example:

Molten Core and Onyxia was hard in the first 7/8 patches, with the same equipment (let's say the UBRS tier), and then, after 1.9 through 1.12, with the same UBRS tier, it was more easy, cause they touch a couple of fixes abilities and buffs and the 16 slot debuff, and more stuff. So depends on the patch, actually.

[Saucerian]

Mhm. Mhm. How many of you actually raided in Classic?

The mechanics may have been simpler but they were extremely unforgiving. Gear and consumable checks were rigid, and one person screwing up one mechanic could often mean a wipe. Positioning and timing of abilities were crucial, especially in the later raids.

Simple != easy.

[Solitare-sp]

Mhm. Mhm. How many of you actually raided in Classic?

The mechanics may have been simpler but they were extremely unforgiving. Gear and consumable checks were rigid, and one person screwing up one mechanic could often mean a wipe. Positioning and timing of abilities were crucial, especially in the later raids.

Simple != easy.

I agree. What I think people want are things like professions, consumables and preparation to mean something again, even if it's a pain in the arse.

Who bothers taking potions anymore unless you're absolute cutting edge?

[deniter]

I think you'll be surprised. Yes the mechanics were easier, but the work and prep needed for raids was much higher. Food, Pots, Buffs, and just access to gear make it a very different beast.

Not to mention grouping up 40 people and organising them correctly.

Exactly.

If the raids were as easy as some people seem to think why would anyone have bothered to farm consumables for hours before raid nights or run Onyxia and DM tribute run for buffs?

[Solitare-sp]

Exactly.

If the raids were as easy as some people seem to think why would anyone have bothered to farm consumables for hours before raid nights or run Onyxia and DM tribute run for buffs?

Lets not forget, you had people turning up to MC in greens and quest blues as those were often the only things available. Even getting T0 (let alone T0.5) wasn;t the easiest thing in the world.

loot was a LOT harder to come by.

[Deleted]

Of course it was, u have 2/3 pieces of loot for 40 people, even in UBRS, u have 2 loot for 15 people, so it was hard to obtain the gear easy.

Back in the day i needed 6 months to obtain full tier 1 set for my hunter in Molten Core, and i run it EVERY SINGLE WEEK for 6 month, and i was the only hunter on my guild doing the raid nights, so, it's not easy. Imagine if u have 6 rogues or 5 mages, good luck with that

[Knyx]

Following factors

1) All game mechanics, tactics, class optimization have been figured out long ago

Current mechanics and class optimization have absolutely nothing to do with Vanilla WoW. It's an entirely different game. Boss mechanics were the least of your issues back then. Resource management (mana, primarily), threat management...these were real things back then that anyone who started in Wrath or beyond know virtually nothing about.

And class optimization? I don't know what optimization you think existed back then, but it was practically nil. Everyone knew the optimal talent builds for their class (or anyone who raided regularly did, anyway). There wasn't an embarrasment of epic gear coming from multiple sources to choose from where you could go "Do I want this purple item with obscene stats, or this purple item with slightly different obscene stats?" No, it was "Do I want this blue chest with +10 damage, or this blue chest with +25 fire res?". Guess what? You probably needed both depending on the fight.

2) People have years of experience

In a completely different game for all intents and purposes.

3) 2017 raiding mentality is a huge improvment over what people did in the MC/BWL days. Raiders didn't went into MC with a fully optimized/buffed character in 2005

Sure they did. If you were in a raiding guild. at least one that was halfway decent, you most certainly came with a full compliment of pots and reagents for buffing. The difference is the amount of buffs were significantly smaller. Fewer enchants, no JC at all. Again, there wasn't much to "optimize"

4) Current addons

There are a lot more addons, but we still the basics we needed like DPS Meters, Omen, etc.

[Echocho]

I don't think you realize how difficult naxx will be

[Deleted]

Evn patchwerk, people think is a tank and spank, and it is in essence, but if u don't have gear and good dps, u can't pass him. Anub'Rekan, if u don't take out the curse that he puts on you quickly, your death in 3 hits, 2 if you are clothy. U don't have nature resistance gear, u don't pass the trash in the abomination wing.

And that with many other

[Projectmars]

Eh, yes and no. Yes because the mechanics are easier and have been on the internet for years. No because there's a lot more to the fights than dealing with those mechanics. Going OOM is a problem and requires casting lower ranked spells to avoid.

[Heathy]

I thought aq 20 was kinda challenging to heal at the time and razorgore really did kinda require everyone to do something to mitigate that mob swarm so there was an element of skill involved and some bosses that were just difficult to execute. I don't think ppl will blow through bwl but zg and molten core most definitely still going to take a while to dungeon gear 20-25 ppl thats a reasonable amount of 5 man farming. 4-5 groups needing to farm each dungeon maybe 3-5 times. maybe its possible to 20 man zg in level 60 greens who knows, will that even be there as an entry raid. many questions that have no answers. be nice to see those 3 day cooldowns on 20 mans again.